Victoria W-League team . . . no longer Highlanders in name or colours.

[Drew Shaw]

In 2011, the womens team of Victoria Highlanders FC was moved up to the W-League from the PCSL. This made the travel costs significantly higher for them than for the mens PDL team. While the mens team continued to draw upwards of 1000 fans per game, the womens team continued to draw friends, family members, etc to the tune of about 200 per game. Season tickets were $100 for men, $75 for women.

As of the start of 2012, and the owner of the club has had to tighten his financial belt. Season ticket sales were lowered to $85, include admission to BOTH the womens and the mens games for the same price, and include a share in "club ownership", and sales of them are at 350 as of Feb 24th (compared to season ticket sales of approx 200 in 2011). I and a few other male fans talked about going out to the womens games as well, for the first time. Using the common club name to sell the womens team to fans of the mens team was starting to work, at least in regards to me and a few people I attend the games with.

Further changes came on 22 Feb, when it was announced that the womens team is not only going to be wearing different colours (red and white) than the parent club (black, white and gold), but will be renamed "Peninsula Coop Womens Soccer" after a local gas station. The team is still part of the overall club organisation. The new colours match those of the new sponsor, which will be assuming the full travel costs of the team (which include trips to California and Colorado).

The owner has made it clear that without this change, the womens team could not continue in the W-League. VHFC Women had a tough time in 2011 (after dominating the PCSL in 2010), competing with teams like Vancouver Whitecaps and Seattle Sounders teams rich in NCAA and US and Canada National Team talent. The financial cost of moving to the W-League was not accompanied by increased revenue, for the simple reason that womens soccer generally is not as popular as spectator entertainment as its male equivalent.

Sponsorship is a normal and necessary part of sport, and if this were just a case of a feature sponsor, I'd be glad to see it. But this isn't a sponsorship, it's a shift from the team being a sporting entity with a sponsor, to being an advertising tool that happens to also play a sport. For some fans (I am one of them) this is a step further than we are willing to accept if we are going to invest emotionally and financially in a sports team. For the same reason, I wouldn't support Red Bulls if I lived in New York (or Salzburg), or Chivas USA if I lived in Los Angeles.

This move is a step backwards for the "brand" which Victoria Highlanders have built in the Victoria community. The affiliate womens team is not wearing their colours or even using their name any more. The name "Victoria Highlanders FC", barring the youth development sides, now applies once again to the flagship of the club - the mens' PDL team. That is the message that this move will send to casual sports fans in Victoria.

It seems to me that if your mens PDL team is drawing 1-2000 fans, and your womens team is drawing 200, then your priorities are decided for you. If you cannot afford to have a team in the W-League (and are getting beaten every game at that level), then the obvious move is to return to the PCSL - especially since the players are going to be the same no matter which league you are in. The club's owner and benefactor obviously feels differently, and that this loss of club identity for the womens team is a price they will pay to be able to continue to operate a W-League team rather than a PCSL team. I’m sure the female players and their parents agree on this. I would if I were a female player or the father of one.

But I'm not. I'm a fan. I was planning on attending the womens' games this year, along with several of the loud supporters of the mens' team. But I'm not going to go to do so now, because I haven't bought into supporting a gas station; I have been sold on the idea of a Football Club in Victoria, which wears certain colours and has a certain name. Some people don’t understand that for some sports fans, things like your colours, your name, and your identity as a club are important. They will say that you’re “not a true fan” of the game if you show up for “Victoria Highlanders FC” but won’t show up for the same players when called “Gas Station Womens Soccer”. All this illustrates is their inability to understand that not everyone thinks the same way that they do, because the counter argument is that “you’re not a true fan” of a club if you don’t consider the identity of a name and colours to be of importance to a segment of your supporters.

I wish the women players well, but this move is going to backfire. If it was difficult attracting fans to "Victoria Highlanders (Womens) FC" while leveraging the fans of the mens team, then it will be even harder attracting them to "Peninsula Coop Womens Soccer", which sounds like a recreational team. Fan support for the womens team will not increase, and as a result in a year or two the current sponsor will realise they are not getting a good bang for their advertising dollar, as their team plays before 200 people. They will pull out, and the team will move back to the PCSL, and re-re-brand as "Victoria Highlanders (Womens) FC". All this will do is place them back where they were two years ago, with only the lost opportunity in between to slowly leverage support for the mens games into support also for the womens games.

Revenue for VHFC comes from three places: the owner, paying customers, and sponsors. This decision has obviously generated a large amount of sponsor money. The question is, will it result in a long-term loss of money from lost potential fans? I would have paid this year to watch “Victoria Highlanders (Women) FC”, whether in the PCSL or the W-League. I won’t pay to watch “Gas Station Womens Soccer”. I don’t think anyone who isn’t already in the crowd of 200 will be more likely to watch “Gas Station Womens Soccer” than they were “Victoria Highlanders (Womens) FC”; but I do think that there will be people who will consider “Gas Station Womens Soccer” to be something less than it is (ie recreational), and therefore not bother finding out more about it. This move is an admission that they don’t think they can grow the fanbase for the womens’ game beyond the current 200 or so fans per game even in the long term, and that therefore money from paying customers will never grow by enough to pay to operate a womens team wearing the club’s colours and using the club’s name.

If that’s the case, and I were the owner, I think I’d opt for a strong and sustainable PCSL team which bears the club’s identity, rather than a W-League team which doesn’t bear the club’s identity, and is dependent upon an external sponsorship which will probably end in a few years. But, I’m not the owner, and he feels otherwise.

I’ll continue to support the mens PDL team, but this club is sending out mixed signals. On one hand, season tickets now come with “ownership” in the club; on the other hand, the womens team no longer wears the colours or bears the name of the club itself. These two decisions are contradictory, and the ownership will have to decide whether it is trying to be a supporter-focussed club providing entertainment to fans; or a player-focussed club providing playing opportunities for youth while taking registration fees from their parents for it’s youth teams. If it’s the latter, I’d prefer to know now, so I can expend my time elsewhere. If I wanted to support a player-focussed amateur team with 25 other people in the stands, I could do that watching the PCSL.

[AlanDouglas]

Could you explain this in more detail?

[The Ref]

I applaud the change and I will continue supporting the women's team of Victoria. The name will not change, it will continue to be Highlanders. But regardless of that, I support the team and the game no matter what name they have. Peninsula Co-Op is a Vancouver Island successful enterprise and not just a gas station but a cooperative owned by its members. A true islander community people company. Personally I prefer red and white uniforms over the black. Games in 2012 will attract far more spectators because of the popular local sponsor and the fact that some U.S. teams have added U.S. national players from the WPS hiatus.

[Blue and White Army]

Personally I prefer red and white uniforms over the black.

You should ask Newcastle United to change to red and white as well.

[A_Gagne]

Honestly if the money generated from this helps make W-League competition affordable than I think it's a pragmatic solution in a really tough market place. Sure changing aspects of your team's identity isn't ideal, but idealism doesn't pay the bills. No one's asking Newcastle United to change their colours, but this ain't exactly the Magpies or St. James' Park last I checked. And as for the women's team being taken less seriously, (a) they'll be taken a whole hell of a lot more seriously than if they were playing PCSL, no mater what the name or colours, and ( if you think a team with a sponsor's name can't be taken seriously... how about the Victoria Pay Less or Victoria Salsa... just saying, not like it's never been done before.

[Toje]

You should ask Newcastle United to change to red and white as well.

Are you comparing Newcastle United to Victoria Highlanders? Really?

[Richard]

In the 2010 PCSL the Highlander women came second to the Whitecaps Prospects and only four points ahead of the Fraser Valley Action. They performed well in the top half of the league but I wouldn't describe it as dominating the league. The Highlanders are playing a team in the PCSL in 2012 as well as the W-League.

[ted]

...they'll be taken a whole hell of a lot more seriously than if they were playing PCSL, no mater what the name or colours,...

I find that a highly debatable proposition. The team averaged around 200 per game in 2011 playing in the W-League. This was around 20% of the attendance of the men's team even though the women were competitive, and supported by a marketing campaign that saw them receive far more exposure than the men in local media.

What a number like 200 says is that the crowd was mostly made up of friends and family with perhaps 75% or more knowing the players personally. The soccer fans of Victoria clearly do not see the W-League as anything better than the PCSL women's league. So no, I don't think they will be taken that much more seriously in the W-League than the PCSL by the average soccer fan on the street. It may not be fair or show a deep understanding of the women's game in Canada and the world, but it is the perception out there.

[Drew Shaw]

The name will not change, it will continue to be Highlanders.

Not according to the official press release from the club or reporting in media like the Victoria Times Colonist. The team is now called "Peninsula Coop Womens Soccer".

Games in 2012 will attract far more spectators because of the popular local sponsor and the fact that some U.S. teams have added U.S. national players from the WPS hiatus.

More fans may come out because of the recent high profile signings by teams like Seattle (though those players may not come to the games in Victoria given their committment to the Olympic games). Claiming that more people will come out because of who is sponsoring the team is obviously untrue.

[Drew Shaw]

As for the women's team being taken less seriously, (a) they'll be taken a whole hell of a lot more seriously than if they were playing PCSL, no mater what the name or colours

Based on what, other than wishful thinking? Were they taken any more seriously as an entertainment option last year in W-League than they were the year before in PCSL? The attendance numbers don't indicate that they were. Now they have the disadvantage of having discarded the "club" name, and creating "brand confusion" in the marketplace, for those not on chat forums like this, by changing their colours and adopting a name that sounds like one belonging to a recreation team. I haven't heard from anyone who says they'll start watching MORE womens games as the result of this move, but I have heard from a few people who were going to attend womens games this year, but now probably won't, including myself. Personally I would have watched them this year in PCSL as VHFC, and I doubt any of the current family and friends watching would have stopped doing so if that was the route taken.

[b

( if you think a team with a sponsor's name can't be taken seriously... how about the Victoria Pay Less or Victoria Salsa... just saying, not like it's never been done before.

Those examples aren't serious names either, which proves the point being made. A team that places more priority on the name of a sponsor than on the identity of a club is a team that ISN'T taken seriously by a lot of potential fans. When Victoria Shamrocks got their proper name back was when I started attending their games, something I wouldn't bother with while they had a beer-league name based on their sponsor.

[The Ref]

^ I am glad you will stay away now from games. We need supporters not detractors. Just stay away.

[soccerfan13]

The Ref i agree, why would you stay away just because they changed their name. The press release still says they will be run by the Highlander Club. In this day and age with the high cost of travel, it makes sense to bring in a sponsor to help offset the cost. This is a relatively new team to the W league. It may take a few more years to attract high level players to the team, but im sure it will happen.

[Drew Shaw]

Could you explain this in more detail?

Troll much?

I'm supposed to apologise for trying to give a thorough description of something? LOL.

[Drew Shaw]

^ I am glad you will stay away now from games. We need supporters not detractors. Just stay away.

This is the sort of illogical / tribal / rude mindset utilised by people who can't comprehend opinions other than their own, or more importantly, the possibility of opinions other than their own.

[Drew Shaw]

The Ref i agree, why would you stay away just because they changed their name. The press release still says they will be run by the Highlander Club. In this day and age with the high cost of travel, it makes sense to bring in a sponsor to help offset the cost. This is a relatively new team to the W league. It may take a few more years to attract high level players to the team, but im sure it will happen.

This isn't about sponsorship, it's about sponsorship going to a degree with drives some fans away. Claiming that it is merely about sponsorship is either a Straw Man Fallacy, or an inability to comprehend opinions other than your own, even when they are explained in detail.

[soccerfan13]

i am quite capable of comprehending opinions other than my own. i am entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours.

[canadianfoot]

off the subject but concerning the same team. anyone knows what kind of budget the owner of highlanders has been putting into the men's team so far? i know they started cutting costs lately, and being the only pdl team on the island they have to use the ferry for travel. just curious if the overall costs are over 100k, 200k...(men's team, staff, travel, insurrance, etc)

I rmbr reading somewhere that the highlanders along with some us pdl team attended some meeting from usl to a "possibility(probably far away not in near future)" of usl pro level coming to the west coast. not sure how the conference would look like and all. but apparently usl pro teams budget 500k per year...roughly...

basically would the jump to usl pro be justified (costs vs future earnings)

sorry my keyboard kinda sc..... no caps lock or shift working.

[Drew Shaw]

anyone knows what kind of budget the owner of highlanders has been putting into the men's team so far? i know they started cutting costs lately, and being the only pdl team on the island they have to use the ferry for travel. just curious if the overall costs are over 100k, 200k...(men's team, staff, travel, insurrance, etc)

basically would the jump to usl pro be justified (costs vs future earnings)

I'd love to know the budget currently, and the cost of running a USL Pro team too. Owner Alex Campbell has had to really cut costs this year, despite obviously wishing he didn't have to. The problem for Victoria at USL Pro level would be that the nearest rival is . . . Los Angeles. Will dumping the cost [and identity] of the womens team mean that more money is now available for the PDL team? Who knows, but fans can hope so.

I have nothing to base it on other than events like the recent Whitecaps/UVic game, the recent Cdn University championship, and the World U-17 Cup games; but I think that Victoria would support a fully pro level of soccer with crowds of 3,000 or more if a bit of "new paint" style decorating were done properly at Royal Athletic Park. The question is, would that be enough paying customers to make USL Pro a viable thing? Over the summer it wouldn't have to compete with the Royals junior hockey team. If the stars were to align so that someone in Calgary, Sacramento, Phoenix, and San Diego wanted to join USL Pro at the same time, maybe that would be the critical mass of somewhat-near teams to make it succeed.

[A_Gagne]

@ seathanaich:

You bring up some good points. And sure, saying this is a dumb idea from a business perspective is certainly a debatable point. But claiming other people's opinions are “illogical” or “straw man fallacy’s” or based on “wishful thinking”, is disrespectful to say the least. I don’t recall anyone criticizing your post in such spiteful terms. Let's get one thing strait pal, my opinion is no more "wishful thinking" than yours.

Furthermore, on the subject of opinions, I think the only one in this discussion who’s “incapable of comprehending opinions other than their own”, is the person who’s aggressively tossing that accusation out to multiple people on this discussion thread.

Looking back I see you’ve in fact made this same accusation broadly to your detractors in general in your first post:

Some people don’t understand that for some sports fans, things like your colours, your name, and your identity as a club are important. They will say that you’re “not a true fan” of the game if you show up for “Victoria Highlanders FC” but won’t show up for the same players when called “Gas Station Womens Soccer”. All this illustrates is their inability to understand that not everyone thinks the same way that they do...

I find your viewpoint on this issue presumptive, absolutist and self-indulgent.

Presumptive because from your very first post you’ve made an assumption about the people who don’t share your sentiments. That we somehow don’t "understand" your view point. I think people understand quite well where you’re coming from. No one is arguing that changing a team’s name to reflect a sponsor’s company, rather than civic symbolism, is an ideal situation (I certainly am not anyways). I certainly thought Victoria Payless was a Mickey Mouse name as much as the next guy, but if that’s what sustained semi-pro lacrosse in my city I was willing to deal, and so were the rest of the fans that showed up in your absence.

Absolutist because a decision, by definition, is a balancing act between competing priorities. Clearly you place a very high priority on the symbolism of a club name and colours. That's fine, you are certainly entitled to do so. The fact that the club has made the decision to brand the W-League team with a sponsor’s name doesn’t mean that they, nor those posting counter opinions on this forum, don’t “understand” you, it means that they have different priorities.

Furthermore, you’re perspective seems to be very self-indulgent. You’ve even essentially admitted as such:

The club's owner and benefactor obviously feels differently, and that this loss of club identity for the womens team is a price they will pay to be able to continue to operate a W-League team rather than a PCSL team. I’m sure the female players and their parents agree on this. I would if I were a female player or the father of one.

But I'm not. I'm a fan.

It seems to me that to you this issue is certainly not about the soccer, or about the development of local players. It’s about you projecting your concept of what a club and fan experience should be onto a team you, by your own admission, didn’t support much in the first place.

I’m not sure you’re the kind of fan they’re looking for, and I’m not sure they’ll miss you if you’re nowhere to be seen this year as well.

[Drew Shaw]

@ seathanaich:

saying this is a dumb idea from a business perspective

I said no such thing. I said that I think it will be counter-productive to the growth of the fan base. That’s a different subject.

But claiming other people's opinions are “illogical” or “straw man fallacy’s” or based on “wishful thinking”, is disrespectful to say the least.

It is if that’s the limit to how people think. Pointing out flaws in ideas is nothing personal. If pointing out fallacies when they are used in a debate hurts people’s feelings then they shouldn’t enter into debates which they are not equipped to be able to handle.

@ my opinion is no more "wishful thinking" than yours.

It is if it includes claiming that people will support a sports team based upon who their corporate sponsor is.

I think the only one in this discussion who’s “incapable of comprehending opinions other than their own”, is the person who’s aggressively tossing that accusation out to multiple people on this discussion thread.

This is the equivalent of saying “I know you are but what am I”. It’s no more valid here than it is on schoolyard playgrounds. Pointing out flaws in arguments, or providing reasons for why someone has certain opinions, does not demonstrate an inability to comprehend other opinons.

The fact that the club has made the decision to brand the W-League team with a sponsor’s name doesn’t mean that they, nor those posting counter opinions on this forum, don’t “understand” you, it means that they have different priorities. .

I already said the same thing. I’m quite capable of understanding the perspective of those arguing in favour of this change.

Furthermore, you’re perspective seems to be very self-indulgent.

As every consumer should be when they spend their money and time on something.

I’m not sure you’re the kind of fan they’re looking for, and I’m not sure they’ll miss you if you’re nowhere to be seen this year as well.

This is an example of the inability to accept different views which I referenced above. It’s the sort of George Bush / Osama bin Laden “if you’re not with us you’re against us” mentality that causes fanatics to harm people. It’s the No True Scotsman (ironic given the Highlanders club name) fallacy used by people to argue over who is or is not a true fan, or a true Conservative, or a true patriot, or a true Muslim. It’s a logic fallacy.

There is no fan who is any more “true” than another. I would think the type of fan they are looking for is the kind that pays for tickets to watch them. The fact that I bought a season ticket this year, have steered other people to also buy season tickets, have talked up the club among other local soccer players, make a lot of noise at the games, volunteered to help in situations when they needed it, and am part of the entertainment for other fans does make me the kind of fan they and every other sports team are looking for.