Luis_Rancagua Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Guys, this is just in, according to MLS Rumors, Don Garber is expected to announce the bidder tomorrow. Based on what MLS Rumors know having followed the expansion story since, well, forever, here are the official bidders. Confirmed: Atlanta (Arthur Blank) Miami (FC Barcelona) Montreal (Impact, Gillet/Saputo)EDIT/UPDATE This article (http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081015.wspt_mls14/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home) says Montreal will submit their bid before the end of tomorrow's deadline. Ottawa (Ottawa Senators) Portland (Timbers, Paulson) St Louis (St Louis Soccer United) EDIT/UPDATE: Bid will be submitted Tomorrow. Vancouver (Whitecaps FC) No Action as yet: New York City (Fred Wilpon) Las Vegas (Presumed to have given up in favor of share of the Columbus Crew) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Wait until the deadline has passed and the bidders have been announced before getting your panties in a knot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hasn't the so great website mlsrumours already announces the expansions until 2030 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Saputo knows that he doesn't need to be in MLS to have the best (or tied for the best) football club in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Saputo knows that he doesn't need to be in MLS to have the best (or tied for the best) football club in Canada So playing in a mediocre league such as the USL is better than MLS??? Is that what you are trying to justify here??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Yes Luis, playing in the "mediocre" USL is as good as playing in the very Mediocre MLS. MLS is absolutely nothing to write home about. just more hype and a handful of big name players. If I was serious about building a football club, i'd be involved in USL. if i am only interested in making money sometime down the road, then of course I'd pick MLS because USL still hasn't figured out how to make money. it really depends on an owner's priorities. Now, if MLS just loosened the reigns on its owners, I'd change my mind but until i see substantive changes in MLS rules, I'm simply not going to be convinced that MLS has the potential to be a great league. The more the league expands, with the current set of rules, the worse MLS will get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpenza Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Welcome to another edition of the Luiis Racangua show. Today, Luis digs up a rumour on MLS Rumors and starts wildly speculating about it. Don't miss tomorrow's show, when Luis digs up another rumour on MLS Rumors and starts wildly speculating about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Yes Luis, playing in the "mediocre" USL is as good as playing in the very Mediocre MLS. MLS is absolutely nothing to write home about. just more hype and a handful of big name players. If I was serious about building a football club, i'd be involved in USL. if i am only interested in making money sometime down the road, then of course I'd pick MLS because USL still hasn't figured out how to make money. it really depends on an owner's priorities. Now, if MLS just loosened the reigns on its owners, I'd change my mind but until i see substantive changes in MLS rules, I'm simply not going to be convinced that MLS has the potential to be a great league. The more the league expands, with the current set of rules, the worse MLS will get. Look at yourself!!!! You have the nerves to come on this forum and defend the state of a low-life league such as the USL. Are you a fool??? Are you willing to defend this statement here on this forum???? If you do, you are going to lose big time. You're NOT going to win. In fact, let's start the debate now. How many of you here on Voyageur think that the USL is the greatest league in North America??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 ^ oh Luis...you get worked up about such inconsequential things. Its quite comical. The fact of the matter is that I prefer the USL as a league because the roster and spending rules are open ended enough to allow a football minded owner to build their club as they wish. If I had the money to own a club (I can dream), I would prefer to be involved in a league with rules like USL. That's my opinion. Its about flexibility and the ability to be serious about player development. This is where my interest lies. Is the USL perfect? NO...far from it. They still have a LONG way to go to build a fiscal model that would attract owners to start a USL club or to keep existing clubs from looking to jump to MLS. That doesn't make it a "low-life league" and its the only place in North America where an owner can make his/her own decisions about how to structure their club. MLS clubs have to claw and fight just to run a website that is independant of head office. MLS front office is just to controlling for my liking. Serious football people all agree. So many people are so fixated on avoiding another NASL style failure that we are willing to stomach the anti-competitive nature of the MLS structure. MLS is too socialistic for my liking. The quality of play is not significantly better than USL. On a scale of 1-10, where La Liga or EPL is a 10, MLS would be a 5 and USL would be a 4. Again, that's my opinion but I've watched enough USL games this year on Fox to feel pretty confident about that assessmnet. I'm not trying to change your mind Luis. I know where your sympathies lie. However, it is my belief that MLS is a mediocre league and it will have to be committed to serious changes to make me believe otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Most wouldn't say the USL is the greatest in North America. Listen to Gullit and listen closely to Carver. The MLS is not the same as the rest of the world, that is obvious right from the front door. Look at the salaries. Some guys (Lombardo) getting their amateur status pulled because his summer job netted him $20,000. If the MLS would allow for an expanded roster and leveling of the salaries, teams might become clubs and develop their own players. Instead you have Barcelona and other World giant clubs adding a feeder team in MLS. The Impact are making profit (for a non-profit org). They will be able to attract better talent and pay better than some MLS teams if they invest that money into an Academy. If the CCL takes off and gets more recognized, the USL-1 might be the cheaper way to get there in Canada. Gutsy call on Joey's part. How would the Impact fans feel if they got "promoted" and half the roster was cut due to salaries and other rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Most wouldn't say the USL is the greatest in North America. Listen to Gullit and listen closely to Carver. The MLS is not the same as the rest of the world, that is obvious right from the front door. Look at the salaries. Some guys (Lombardo) getting their amateur status pulled because his summer job netted him $20,000. If the MLS would allow for an expanded roster and leveling of the salaries, teams might become clubs and develop their own players. Instead you have Barcelona and other World giant clubs adding a feeder team in MLS. The Impact are making profit (for a non-profit org). They will be able to attract better talent and pay better than some MLS teams if they invest that money into an Academy. If the CCL takes off and gets more recognized, the USL-1 might be the cheaper way to get there in Canada. Gutsy call on Joey's part. How would the Impact fans feel if they got "promoted" and half the roster was cut due to salaries and other rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I won't get into too much of a back--and-forth on this, but the main problem with putting faith in the USL long-term is the fact that all of the bigger teams seem to be actively courting MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I would just worry about the long term future of the USL with Seattle, Portland and Vancouver soon to disappear from the league. I prefer the business model but the best clubs all want out. Even Pachuca has unveiled plans to start a USL-1 team in Phoenix next season with a view towards getting into MLS with an indoor SSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 im sure that winnipeg,edmonton,and san antonio will fill the void in the usl-1 when seattle,portland and vancouver move up to the mls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 MLS to announce expansion hopefuls Herald News Services Wednesday, October 15, 2008 Major League Soccer chatter ramps up again today as the league officially announces the cities and ownership groups vying for two expansion franchises in 2011. The Vancouver Whitecaps are joined by groups representing Montreal, Ottawa, Portland, St. Louis and potentially four more American cities. Vancouver Canucks owner Francesco Aquilini, who gave serious thought to a separate Vancouver bid, was not expected to be in the mix. A decision on the fledgling league's 17th and 18th franchises could come as soon as the MLS Cup on Nov. 23. Regardless of Vancouver's fate in this round of bids, there is more than enough talk to suggest MLS will go beyond 18 teams in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I wouldn't underestimate the Barcelona/Miami bid. With the apparent agreement already with MLS on the Barcelona brand, it would be hard for MLS to turn down a bid from a big US market (population-wise). I'm also curious about relationship between the current USL-franchise and Barcelona. Not much has been mentioned about that possibility but the Miami FC venture would be a small pilot project for their owners, Grupo Traffic. It would not surprise me if there is a behind the scenes deal between Barca and Grupo Traffic (but I have no evidence of that). However, if there is a link, it puts this bid at the top of the pile. Grupo Traffic is one of the most influencial sports marketing firms in Latin America. They hold the marketing rights to the Copa America among other things. Their North American operations are based in Miami ( http://www.traffic.com.br ). They are also behind the player development group I posted a NY Times article about. http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16561 As a Canadian hoping to see more Canadian franchises in MLS, a marriage of these two groups (if it happens) would probably virtually assure the Miami bid is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Ottawa, Montreal among bids for MLS teams North American soccer league plans to add two teams for start of 2011 season MATTHEW SEKERES October 15, 2008 VANCOUVER -- Major League Soccer, the burgeoning circuit with 14 teams and plans to add four franchises in the next three years, closes its request for expansion applications today and will receive bids from Vancouver, Montreal and Ottawa. In Vancouver, an application backed by reclusive B.C. businessman and soccer hobbyist Greg Kerfoot and NBA superstar Steve Nash will not face local competition after the NHL's Vancouver Canucks decided not to enter the fray yesterday. Francesco Aquilini, the chairman of Canucks Sports and Entertainment, had been working on an MLS bid since his offer to team with Kerfoot, owner of the United Soccer Leagues' Vancouver Whitecaps, was rebuffed. Canucks president and chief executive Chris Zimmerman said yesterday MLS was an "exploration" but that the NHL club would not be bidding. "All along, our view was that we think Vancouver will be a great market and achieve some of the success that Toronto has experienced," he said An informed source said Aquilini, who had met at least twice with MLS commissioner Don Garber, pulled out after failing to secure a soccer-specific stadium. MLS, North America's premier soccer league, is adding two expansion franchises in 2011, swelling its membership to 18 clubs after Seattle joins in 2009 and Philadelphia in 2010. Several U.S. groups are also expected to bid, raising the number of contending cities to as many as nine. The league is expected to award the new franchises by March of 2009. Requests to interview MLS officials about the expansion process were denied. Aquilini's stadium play, ironically, rested with the current home of the Whitecaps. Swangard Stadium, with a capacity of roughly 6,000, is an aging facility in Burnaby, B.C., and would have required major work to meet MLS standards, including an expansion to 20,000 seats. Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan has spoken with Aquilini about renovating the facility after the Whitecaps announced earlier this year that they would be moving downtown to B.C. Place in 2011. Aquilini's interest was piqued by potential synergies with his hockey team. The Canucks have the corporate infrastructure to operate an MLS team, and a database of roughly 60,000 potential sports consumers - the NHL team's season-ticket holders and its extensive waiting list. Aquilini approached Kerfoot and Nash about a partnership this year. After being rejected, his MLS interest did not cool, prompting the Whitecaps to prepare for a turf war and reaffirm their standing as guardians of the game in British Columbia. "We did talk to MLS when it became apparent to us that [Aquilini] was looking at an MLS franchise, but not to say you owe us anything," Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said. The Kerfoot-Nash MLS proposal includes a not-for-profit component that calls for reinvestment into amateur soccer. The bid has widespread political and grassroots support. MLS is asking for a $40-million (all figures U.S.) expansion fee - four times what Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment paid for Toronto FC in 2005. TFC, which was named Sports Business Journal's 2008 professional sports franchise of the year, routinely plays before sold-out houses at BMO Field. Kerfoot, who also bankrolls the Canadian women's national team, has designs on a new stadium on Vancouver's downtown waterfront. That plan has been enveloped in red tape for more than five years as the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, a federal agency, mulls a proposed land swap. Kerfoot owns roughly 25 acres of railway-yard land near the proposed stadium site. He has offered to swap 30,000 square feet of his property for 10,000 square feet of the federal government-owned land. In the interim, the Whitecaps will move into a retrofitted B.C. Place, which is expected to be more conducive to soccer after extensive renovations, which includes a retractable roof. The Whitecaps have won two of the past three USL championships. On Sunday, they defeated the Puerto Rico Islanders 2-1 to capture the 2008 title. Yesterday, they attended a ceremony at city hall with Vancouver Mayor Sam Sullivan. In Ottawa, Eugene Melnyk, owner of the NHL's Ottawa Senators, has made a late foray into the game with elaborate plans for a new $100-million soccer-specific facility near Scotiabank Place. He is seeking a partnership with the city to develop a 38-acre plot southeast of the suburban arena. But Melnyk's vision bumps up against a group fronted by junior hockey owner-operator Jeff Hunt that has been granted a conditional CFL franchise. The football group, which includes wealthy Ottawa businessmen, is expected to announce its stadium plans in the coming weeks. The investors want to partner with the city to rebuild Frank Clair Stadium, the downtown facility where the CFL's Rough Riders and Renegades once played. "At this point, we both probably feel like we have a better plan," said Cyril Leeder, the Senators chief operating officer and MLS point man. Meanwhile, in Montreal, the parties are united and the stadium has been built. The USL's Impact unveiled 13,000-seat Saputo Stadium in May. The venue, located in the city's east end near Olympic Stadium, can be expanded to 20,000. Montreal's bid is financed by the Saputo family, which owns the Quebec food company of the same name and has owned the Impact since 1993, and George Gillett, owner of the NHL Canadiens and co-owner of England's Liverpool FC. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081015.MLSEXPAND15/TPStory/Sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje I wouldn't underestimate the Barcelona/Miami bid. With the apparent agreement already with MLS on the Barcelona brand, it would be hard for MLS to turn down a bid from a big US market (population-wise). I'm also curious about relationship between the current USL-franchise and Barcelona. Not much has been mentioned about that possibility but the Miami FC venture would be a small pilot project for their owners, Grupo Traffic. It would not surprise me if there is a behind the scenes deal between Barca and Grupo Traffic (but I have no evidence of that). However, if there is a link, it puts this bid at the top of the pile. Grupo Traffic is one of the most influencial sports marketing firms in Latin America. They hold the marketing rights to the Copa America among other things. Their North American operations are based in Miami ( http://www.traffic.com.br ). They are also behind the player development group I posted a NY Times article about. http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16561 As a Canadian hoping to see more Canadian franchises in MLS, a marriage of these two groups (if it happens) would probably virtually assure the Miami bid is successful. See my post on this here: http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17874 The partner also is involved with FC Bolivar and had ties with the Bolivian federation when they went to the world cup, under a Spanish coach by the way (Azkargota) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I saw the link with Marcelo Claure but this potential for a link with Grupo Traffic is something to watch. I doubt there is a formal link currently but... It may not be an ownership link but the synergies are very interesting and no doubt interesting to MLS. My concern is more that if you have two or three strong bids from US markets, it could have a significant impact on Canadian cities getting MLS franchises. I've read a number of posts that trash the Miami potential but it is still a large market and American. Combine that with legitimate pedigree in Soccer management and money, it will be difficult for MLS to ignore this bid. If Barca and Claure add a link to Grupo Traffic (just my speculating), I would bet that they become one of the selected markets. quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. See my post on this here: http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17874 The partner also is involved with FC Bolivar and had ties with the Bolivian federation when they went to the world cup, under a Spanish coach by the way (Azkargota) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Let me go on record as a Barça club member that I am against the bid, think it is a waste of money, based on an erroneous idea that there is this great market to tap in the US. And it does not give Barça an inroad into a place where great players are being made, unlike the deal they have in Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. And it does not give Barça an inroad into a place where great players are being made, unlike the deal they have in Argentina. I totally agree with you on this statement Jeffrey. MLS will sell its share of adequate talents to Europe but the "great" players will be very few and extremely far between. Having said that, while from a talent stadpoint Barca can invest its money in alot of different places and get better ROI, Barca isn't doing this to find players, no matter what they might be suggesting. They are clearly doing it to further build the Barca brand in North America and it strikes me as a reasonable price to pay to gain a solid foothold into a huge, undertapped market for soccer product. For a group like Barca, MLS is a logical choice because they've got all the player development infrastructure they need in Spain. MLS is just a pet project for Barca, an avenue to market kits, DVDs, trips to Spain, etc... The soccer is secondary (at best). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Rudi I won't get into too much of a back--and-forth on this, but the main problem with putting faith in the USL long-term is the fact that all of the bigger teams seem to be actively courting MLS. you're not wrong Rudi....all the big clubs in USL are indeed looking to get out and are attracted by the lure of actually making money in the soccer game. But that's all its about (at this point). It's not about soccer, just profit, which is fine...I'm a captalist in my real life. However, when it comes to soccer, I prefer to be an idealist/purist and MLS leaves me wanting more (right now). Maybe they'll change my mind one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 interesting article I just read....backs up many of my opinions on MLS v USL. comments? http://www.soccer365.com/features/story_21008230010.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Barca-Miama is a failure waiting to happen. We should be learning from the mistakes of Chivas USA. Not trying to repeat the same bad business model somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Barca-Miama is a failure waiting to happen. We should be learning from the mistakes of Chivas USA. Not trying to repeat the same bad business model somewhere else. I am no expert on the Miami or Florida market, but if it is not working now and has struggled in the past, the only one of the big four US states to fail at the attempt to implant quality pro soccer, you have to wonder why. It looks easy, it should work, but obviously there is something else happening there. And a bunch of Catalan and Bolivian suits flaunting new money and platitudes about Latino-Spanish connections are not going to be the ones to figure it out. Still, Barça has made worst mistakes with its money, hell, we bought Overmaars for the cost an MLS franchise, recently voted one of the worst signings in the last 20 years at the club (along with Winston Bogarde, who at least was fun to watch hack away). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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