All hail the CSA Whitecaps

[CoachRich]

We use the TA in our girl's league. Do you?

[fishman]

I think the discussion is a bit myopic...

Where is it that the Whitecaps make most of their revenue? Gates from the Men's and Women's teams? I don't think so, but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

By asserting their dominance over the Women's National Program through generous funding, they are also ensuring that they fill their academies, camps, youth teams, workshops, etc. ad nauseum, all via the perception that by being a Whitecap, you are improving your chances for NT selection.

I don't begrudge the 'Caps for their business model, but it does not stand up to any of my litmus tests for objectivity. The WNT is filled with Whitecaps, the U20 team is almost completely comprised of Whitecaps, the U20 WNT coach is the Whitecaps coach...and we are to believe that it is purely through the benevolence and compassion of Mr. Kerfoot and his technical group that this is done?

I am sure that is part of the equation, but I seem to think that by having over 30 of the U20 and Senior WNT participants in your player pool, you are probably also looking after your own best interests.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

We use the TA in our girl's league. Do you?

What part of the "we" are you?

[AlanDouglas]

A cunning plan, except for two fatal flaws.

The first is that Greg Kerfoot didn't buy the Whitecaps to make money. Only an idiot would do that, as running a USL team is about the least profitable form of private enterprise I can think of. No, the main reason Kerfoot bought the Whitecaps is that he saw it as a tremendous challenge, just at a time in his life when he was looking for a new challenge.

The second fatal flaw is that the Whitecaps are no longer in the business of charging for youth player development. Kerfoot put a stop to that after spending time in England looking at the youth systems of Arsenal and Chelsea. The pay-to-play programs like the Whitecaps Academy and Super Y teams have for the most part either been phased out or farmed out to local youth clubs. Simply put, the Whitecaps are not in the soccer school business. They do still run various short-term for-fee camps and a few other grass-roots programs, but I wouldn't classify those as serious player development. They are more for PR and scouting purposes.

[Vic]

Maybe it's just me, but there are a few things in this world that I like to think can't be bought, and a national team is one of them.

[terpfan68]

The question that should be asked is "Would the program be better off without Kerfoot's contribution given the current state of the CSA?"

[Vic]

I think the results speak for themselves.

And given that the original WNT agreement has strangely never been made public, and Linford hinted it wasn't entirely philanthropic, I'm reserving judgement on the words "Kerfoot contribution."

[terpfan68]

So money does not equal "contribution"? And if he didnot make a "contribution" I can't see how we would be BETTER off.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

A cunning plan, except for two fatal flaws.

The first is that Greg Kerfoot didn't buy the Whitecaps to make money. Only an idiot would do that, as running a USL team is about the least profitable form of private enterprise I can think of. No, the main reason Kerfoot bought the Whitecaps is that he saw it as a tremendous challenge, just at a time in his life when he was looking for a new challenge.

So Kerfoot is in it for EGO.. just to satisfy a mid life need for a new challenge ?

Of course he brings his business morals and is approach to winning and investing to get a result, but such a process has damaged the WNT and the proper relationships a club should have with the National Association .... and all for ego as you have expressed it..not for monetary gain but to win something to overcome a challenge...

I am correct is what i read into your post ?

[terpfan68]

I guess it's true "No good deed goes unpunished." Is it possible that Kerfoot just wants to improve the state of Women's Soccer and realizes that just giving money to the CSA is probably not the answer.

[fishman]

Of course it is possible that Kerfoot wants to improve the state of Women's Soccer - just as it is possible that the reason that volunteer coaches get into the game is because they feel they can make a positive contribution. However, given time, some of those volunteer coaches no longer act with the best interests of the players - or the game - in mind.

Rather, they begin to craft other agendas that might just compromise the integrity of the game. Come on, we all know coaches, executive board members, district associations and organizations that purport to act with the best intentions of the athletes at heart while clearly indulging themselves in something contrary to that supposed improvement.

I am not suggesting Mr. Kerfoot is some nefarious no-gooder out to steal Gotham. Surely he loves the game we all love - just like many of us who have thought of buying our own football team. He just has the money to do so. And through those resources, he basically runs his own National team.

He houses the WNT coach in very nice digs, he pays the WNT U20 / Whitecaps coach, he has in his organization over 30 players who represent Canada in the women's game, and we are all supposed to just agree that it is purely benevolence, altruism or whatever other philanthropic term you wish to throw at it?

Calling it philanthropy is just euphemistic window-washing for what it really is: a hobby for Mr. Kerfoot. He loves the game, and wants good things for his organization and players. He probably doesn't want to lose much money from it. But a hobby shouldn't include a freaking National Team - sorry. That is something with which I can't make peace. I know the CSA is a broken enterprise, but I would rather stomach the CSA's many shortcomings than see someone engage in what amounts to a de facto takeover of a NSO.

[Richard]

^ You and all the other naysayers would learn so much if you had a chance to talk to Greg Kerfoot personally and find out what he really is all about. Meanwhile draw all the conclusions you like from what you have gleaned third hand through the media. What an incredible example of looking a gift horse in the mouth. Without Greg Kerfoot's substantial contribution it is highly unlikely the WNT would be where it is today or there would have been even less money available for the MNT preparation for South Africa.

[fishman]

Are you suggesting that the MNT indirectly benefits from Mr. Kerfoot? That is, because of his support the CSA throws more money into the MNT as it doesn't need to support the WNT as much? Doesn't that suggest he surely has too much "invested" in the WNT program?

Regarding the WNT and where it is today - it has moved back and forth between 9 (its high-water mark) and 13 over the past 5 years. I wouldn't suggest we are leaps and bounds better today because of a residency camp - or is that because of Pellerud?

Richard, I think it is marvelous that Mr. Kerfoot provides much needed financial support. I just wish it didn't come with the real or perceived strings attached.

[Richard]

I am suggesting the MNT may have got less had Mr Kerfoot not stepped in with his sponsorship of the WNT, so yes, indirectly the MNT has benefitted from Kerfoot's contribution to the WNT.

I wouldn't judge a team's progress one way or another solely on its FIFA ranking, a scheme that comes under constant criticism for its flaws both real and perceived here and elsewhere. Fact remains, without Kerfoot's money the WNT very likely would have been far worse off than they have been. They have qualified for the Olympics, the first Canadian WNT ever to do so. Take that for what it's worth.

I would not expect somebody to make the kind of contributin Greg Kerfoot has without some conditions attached to be honest. The fact that you perceive the contribution as self-serving from Kerfoot's point of view is unfortunate and based I suspect more on presumption and hearsay than hard facts.

[Vic]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it isn't good old "hard facts" Richard. Well, the litmus test of character and being a facts man is what you do when they don't suit you.

"Fact remains [the WNT would have been far worse off without Kerfoot]."

Oh really. So I guess virtually everyone here who thinks the WNT has gone straight into the pot since Kerfoot became involved are receiving different performance reports. Even your hardcore Whitecaps buddies are admitting here they have "underachieved." The Men's team posts within 24hrs after a game. The women's crew has completely given up reporting scores and stats. The team's bottomed out. Pellerud is gone. It's a fantastic watershed moment for Canadian women. Who knows what's up with Kerfoot. It's all clandestine and murky. Everyone seems to know, probably no one does, and more importantly, who cares? He's at best a sideshow. The game is on the field, as are the players that really matter, not some dude with a wallet. It will all get dealt with in it's own good time. In the meantime, like I'm sure the women are doing right now, let's all just enjoy the moment. I'm so glad they have a light at the end of the tunnel to spark them up. And I'll bet we see some great performances coming up as that light inspires them to show their mettle for their new leader. GO CANADA!

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ You and all the other naysayers would learn so much if you had a chance to talk to Greg Kerfoot personally and find out what he really is all about. Meanwhile draw all the conclusions you like from what you have gleaned third hand through the media. What an incredible example of looking a gift horse in the mouth. Without Greg Kerfoot's substantial contribution it is highly unlikely the WNT would be where it is today or there would have been even less money available for the MNT preparation for South Africa.

Its not what he is about its what actions he takes I am concerned with .. talk is talk .. actions are facts Richard and i know your fact driven.

[Richard]

OK if you want to separate what he is about from his actions, how about you list the actions Greg Kerfoot has taken that have been measurably detrimental to the WNT program. Bear in mind that despite the opinion of people like Vic who contend WNT has 'gone straight into the pot since Kerfoot became involved', this is the first Canadian WNT that has ever qualified for the Olympics. And I am not really interested in third party hearsay or subjective assessments despite the apparent preference of some people for these over hard facts. Anybody fool can spout meaningless opinions by the dozen.

[Richard]

Yeah, yeah, Vic, we all know you think the only thing that will inspire the WNT to perform at the Olympics is their knowledge that Pellerud's time with the program is almost over. I'll wager if they do badly you will blame Pellerud for not inspiring them. It is always somebody else's fault nowadays it seems.

[AlanDouglas]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

The U17's train together. The Men's team train together. All the teams in the Euro train together. None of them are in residency. None of them are in a cult-like environment. None of them are burning out. None of them are in bed with a professional team.

But I forgot, it's required. Perhaps you might want to tell all the world's Men's and Women's international teams all that you just figured out they're all doing it wrong. I'm sure they're really interested.

Various US national teams, most notably their WNT and U-17 men, have used residency programs for years. The US have built a huge soccer complex in California for this very purpose, complete with dorms.

Countless major professional clubs around the world have residency programs for their youth teams. You think when a 15-year-old Canadian signs on with a club in Holland that they commute there and back from Ontario every day? No, they go and live in Holland in a residency program.

For that matter, every professional club in the world is basically a residency program! The players all live in the same city for up ten months out of the year, and train together twice daily. On the road, they travel together as a team, eat together, and room together. Friendships develop, and players hang out together in their spare time. Conventional wisdom says that the closer-knit a team is, the better they will perform. This closeness is one of the main reasons club teams are considered to be stronger and more cohesive than comparable national teams.

And while not true of the players of top level clubs, in the lower divisions (including the USL) it is quite common for players to room together, or even for many players to be put up in the same building. The Whitecaps Women out-of-towner all used to live in the same apartment complex in New West, while for years the Whitecaps Men out-of-towners all stayed at the Accent Inn in Burnaby.

quote:

Fury players are available when it suits the Whitecaps. I think you mean New Jersey.

For the last time, the Whitecaps (players, coaches, staff, and management) wanted to play New Jersey in 2006, not Ottawa. Beating New Jersey was the focus of the team's preparation from the first day of training. The PR and marketing people had been building up for a grudge-match New York-Vancouver shades-of-1979 rematch since before the season started.

I assure you that Pellerud did the Whitecaps absolutely no favours by honouring his agreement with Ottawa. For Charmaine and her sheeple to suggest otherwise was a gross insult to the character of players like Andrea Neil, Kara Lang, and the rest who wanted nothing more than to get the Wildcats into Swangard and play them off the park.

[Vic]

Seeing as how it's all you can nail your hat on:

"...this is the first Canadian WNT that has ever qualified for the Olympics."

Before this go, there have been 3 Olympic football tournaments for women. The first two had one CONCACAF rep - tada, the USA. The last one went to two reps and we delivered our single defeat in 15 games to a massive underdog Mexican side (by not marking out Dominguez).

To qualify we had to beat a couple of 50th ranked teams (which in the women's game equals a set of matching shorts) and doing what we've done 15 other times and not losing to Mexico. And even at that, we scraped through 1-0 to them and Costa Rica.

Yeah, Hell of a nail to base your theory of excellence on. Real hard fact (singular, not plural) you run with.

[Vic]

Douglas... those are professional clubs. The only national team example you put forward is a few USNT's who have NO PROFESSIONAL CLUB AFFILIATION.

One more time:

"The U17's train together. [check] The Men's team train together. [check] All the teams in the Euro train together. [check] None of them are in residency. [check] None of them are in a cult-like environment. [removed, assanine] None of them are burning out. [removed, argumentative if you watched Italy] None of them are in bed with a professional team. [check]

But I forgot, it's required. Perhaps you might want to tell all the world's Men's and Women's international teams all that you just figured out they're all doing it wrong. I'm sure they're really interested. check"

[CoachRich]

^Let's tweak the above to read that US & Canada's WNT are the only ones who do residency camps.

The US WNT has had least 7 residency camps to date.

Also, w/ the US WNT having a $8-10M budget there's no need for them to play pro. Remember the old days of Russian hockey, we are not pro we are in the army....ya right.

[Vic]

quote:I assure you that Pellerud did the Whitecaps absolutely no favours by honouring his agreement with Ottawa.

You high?

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

I assure you that Pellerud did the Whitecaps absolutely no favours by honouring his agreement with Ottawa.

Agreement? I thought he said he owed them a favor from 6 month prior. What that favor was it was never disclosed. His repayment of the favor is what started this whole mess.

[Richard]

It's only a mess inside the fevered heads of a few paranoid posters in this forum.