jagum Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 HERE ARE THE GROUPS : A)(San Cristobal-Merida-Barinas) VENEZUELA URUGUAY BOLIVIA PERU (Puerto Ordaz-Maturin-Puerto La Cruz) BRAZIL CHILE MEXICO ECUADOR C)(Maracaibo-Barquisimeto-Caracas) ARGENTINA PARAGUAY COLOMBIA USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Is Copa America drawn properly, or is it done like the Gold Cup, and groups are just assigned? I still think that you could add four more CONCACAF teams and make it a 16 team tournament. That would be awesome. Add: Canada(because I'm a homer) Costa Rica T&T Jamaica The last three are World Cup teams(especially T&T), and Canada because I want them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Whenever I even hear the name Copa America it still almost makes me cry to think that we could have played in it. What would have come of the experience had CANADA actually participated?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by nolando Whenever I even hear the name Copa America it still almost makes me cry to think that we could have played in it. What would have come of the experience had CANADA actually participated?? I agree. To know that we pulled out of the second biggest continental championship in the world is shameful. When you consider that 8 of 12 make the next round, it would only have taken one decent result versus a nation like Peru, or Venezuela(or Columbia, who we'd beaten 2-0 in the Gold Cup final) and we're in the quarters. At that stage in the tournament, anything can happen, as Greece and Denmark have proven in Europe. I try not to think about it, because there are too many what ifs, however I think that the decision to not participate was indicative of the leadership at the time. Here's hoping that our current leadership is exponentially better, although other than some favourable words, Mr. Linford has taken no action whatsoever(I really hope that I am forced to take back all my criticisms of Mr. Linford. I'd like nothing more than to eat my words when it comes to his performance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Security concerns are security concerns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_2001 Argentina also withdrew from the tournament. Yes, for us fans it would've been nice to see our team in such a big tournament but with all the problems they had with this edition I can live with our team withdrawing. Also, from what I remember, the last minute decision to go on with the tournament had an effect on Canada's presence because our players were told that the tournament was cancelled and the team didn't have enough time to have all the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by RJB Is Copa America drawn properly, or is it done like the Gold Cup, and groups are just assigned? I still think that you could add four more CONCACAF teams and make it a 16 team tournament. That would be awesome. Add: Canada(because I'm a homer) Costa Rica T&T Jamaica The last three are World Cup teams(especially T&T), and Canada because I want them there. But really there shouldn't be any CONCACAF teams at all. Having invitees is just a scam to bring in more money. To maximize the integrity of these confederation championships, they should only involve teams belonging to one confederation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 What would be great though would be a real Copa America that combined the competitions of both South and North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 here here, Grizz...maybe that's what they are after with the invitations of the US and Mexico this year...but I agree, a proper tournament with the best of both zones would be divine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 also about the security concerns...I am not so sure that South Africa won't have many of the same issues when they host the World Cup...pretty hard to deny the massive numbers of murders, gun crimes, robberies, kidnappings in that country, and I can imagine most of the participating squads being confined to hotels and to a few nice sectors of of only a select few cities. Colombia would not have been so different. The Copa in Colombia was bungled by a lot of authorities, that's for sure, but if the security situation is going to be considered the same extent in South Africa (or if it ever returns to Brazil) I wonder if it will affect any countries decision to participate? I personally rather doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 How will the USA be treated in Venezuela? Not trying to flog a dead horse delibrately, but this has to be taken into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I don't see the likes of Argentina and Brasil begging for the opportunity to play all those pirate pissing posts that exist in CONCACAF during "Gold Copa America" qualifyers anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagum Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Desigol How will the USA be treated in Venezuela? Not trying to flog a dead horse delibrately, but this has to be taken into consideration. Venezuela is not a "terrorist" country.There is not any hate against the people of the United States in my country. The team of the USA will be treated with respect like the other teams, in fact the Venezuelan federation of football has invited the team of the USA; as interesting tip the USA is going to play against Paraguay in june 26 . in the small city of Barinas where our president Chavez was born.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagum Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Desigol How will the USA be treated in Venezuela? Not trying to flog a dead horse delibrately, but this has to be taken into consideration. Venezuela is not a "terrorist" country.There is not any hate against the people of the United States in my country. The team of the USA will be treated with respect like the other teams, in fact the Venezuelan federation of football has invited the team of the USA; as interesting tip the USA is going to play against Paraguay in june 26 . in the small city of Barinas where our president Chavez was born.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagum Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by RJB Is Copa America drawn properly, or is it done like the Gold Cup, and groups are just assigned? I still think that you could add four more CONCACAF teams and make it a 16 team tournament. That would be awesome. Great news : Mexico is interested to organize the next COPA AMERICA and it is sugested the participation of 6 concacaf teams plus the 10 south American teams... the copa america draw was made properly : Venezuela , Brazil and Argentina were assigned as head of groups. Uruguay-Ecuador and Paraguay were as second stronger teams Peru-Chile and Colombia were as third stronger teams and finally Bolivia were assigned with Mexico and the USA . QUARTER-FINALS (Maracaibo) best third-2B (SF1) (San Cristobal)1A-second best third (SF2) (Maturin) 1B-2C (SF3) (Barquisimeto) 1C-2A (SF4) SEMI -FINALS (Caracas) winner SF1-winnerSF2 (F1) (Puerto Ordaz) winner SF3-winner SF4 (F2) FINAL (Maracaibo) winner F1 - winner F2 Add: Canada(because I'm a homer) Costa Rica T&T Jamaica The last three are World Cup teams(especially T&T), and Canada because I want them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 All ten South American teams, and then six teams from CONCACAF (who would qualify), would make for a great tournament, still played at a very high level. This would also force Canada to play more games if we are forced to go through a qualification process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Copa de Americas 2012 With 16 teams; four co-hosts (Brazil, Argentina, Mexico and USA) with all Comnebol plus four qualifiers from CONCACAF Group A Brazil Colombia Ecuador Jamaica Group B Mexico Paraguay Peru Canada Group C USA Chile Venezuela Costa Rica Group D Argentina Uruguay Bolivia Honduras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jagum Venezuela is not a "terrorist" country.There is not any hate against the people of the United States in my country. The team of the USA will be treated with respect like the other teams, in fact the Venezuelan federation of football has invited the team of the USA; as interesting tip the USA is going to play against Paraguay in june 26 . in the small city of Barinas where our president Chavez was born.... You may not ahte America, but the Bush Admin has openly stated that they don't like Chavez and fund the opposition. Just to clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by loyola Security concerns are security concerns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_2001 Argentina also withdrew from the tournament. Yes, for us fans it would've been nice to see our team in such a big tournament but with all the problems they had with this edition I can live with our team withdrawing. Also, from what I remember, the last minute decision to go on with the tournament had an effect on Canada's presence because our players were told that the tournament was cancelled and the team didn't have enough time to have all the players. Just want to clarify that Argentina pulled out for different reasons than ours. I think the AFA was in a big political battle with the president of Conmebol then, think a guy from Paraguay, name will come to me (Leiroz or something like that?) and pulled for reasons related to that conflict. Only the security question made it easier, even though you are not going to get anyone in Conmebol pulling out in normal circumstances. Canada's pull out was a bit of a diplomacy failure, we were badly advised by our own government, which in any case was not clued into the real situation well enough to advise the CSA correctly anyways. So we took the "cancellation" for real, when we should have just held on and not overreacted, as all other participants showed was possible. Revoking the call to the Cup, instead of sitting on the story for a day and half more, meant that we did not have time to recall within the terms stipulated by FIFA. That was naive in my view, Canada has to have a better sense of the reality in a complicated country like Colombia and not be so clued out. Of course the usual butt-lickers justified the CSA decision all the way, a great example of how many supposed fans are always mistaking allegiances and supporting decisions that in no way benefit the future success of the program and only serve to show of the inept management of it. So I think the problem was cultural, since Canada are the cultural "freaks" of the Americas this is normal in any case. That is how I see it in any case, we had WON the opportunity to be invited, we deserved to be there, we had hard-earned it. But we blew a great opportunity to have a ball, showcase some players for the European market, advance the national program. Maybe get some glorious results and write our name into the third most important national tournament in the game. And prepare the team mentally for the style of play that in many cases is similar in Central America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Desigol How will the USA be treated in Venezuela? Not trying to flog a dead horse delibrately, but this has to be taken into consideration. It's a soccer game. Thats all, and the overwhelming majority of people in the world no matter where they live have no problem distinguishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I can't really see how Canada was to blame for not being in Copa. They canceled it, amid widespread violence. If someone announces they are canceling a major tourney because of violence, and the unknown part that says, from every pro team in Europe 'send our players there and you are f#&^cked'. It is hard to say which continent the political problems were the hardest for the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 I can't really see how Canada was to blame for not being in Copa. They canceled it, amid widespread violence. If someone announces they are canceling a major tourney because of violence, and the unknown part that says, from every pro team in Europe 'send our players there and you are f#&^cked'. It is hard to say which continent the political problems were the hardest for the CSA. You've been here long enough to know that some people will blindly blame the CSA for everything that goes on in the world. I'm pretty sure if you serach a little bit the forum that you can find someone blaming the CSA for 9/11...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 I can't really see how Canada was to blame for not being in Copa. They canceled it, amid widespread violence. If someone announces they are canceling a major tourney because of violence, and the unknown part that says, from every pro team in Europe 'send our players there and you are f#&^cked'. It is hard to say which continent the political problems were the hardest for the CSA. They cancelled it for a day, then it was back on. I never thought they would cancel it definitively, it was all part of using the prestige and importance of football to have a positive impact on the political and social situation in the country, in a time of high profile kidnappings. If you know this you hang on, let it run its course, and there you are happily playing the Copa America for the first time, what a wonderful experience, what prestige. This is why I say we were ill-advised by our government, as our diplomats in Colombia should have read the situation correctly, as the other S. American countries did. It is similar to when your wife, in the middle of an argument, snaps something about a divorce. If you don't know your wife you pack your bags and call your lawyer, or the two things but in the opposite order. If you know her you know she is frustrated and angry and that tomorrow she probably won't repeat that word and might even apologize, and that you damn well better not call a lawyer or pack the case as that will make it worse. Some guys don't know their wives. Some countries don't have a clue what happens south of the Rio Grande. That is why I say we are the "freaks" of the Americas, apart from being, in soccer terms, with no league and no national cup, a freak soccer nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 This makes perfect sense for so many reasons. It also is a tantalizing prospect (at least for all CONCACAF and at least some COMNEBOL countries) that is entirely possible given the sorry state of the Gold Cup and the fact that the Copa America often has to play second fiddle in terms of respectability to the SA WCQ matches. Add to that the fact that the Copa America has been inmviting the better CONCACAF teams teams for years and it makes me think they should just combine the two tournaments. This is a good solution - a completely different tournament. I think that if Mexico and the US (and the rest of the teams) brought full squads this could be seen as very useful and interesting for football fans and federations alike. quote:Originally posted by canso Copa de Americas 2012 With 16 teams; four co-hosts (Brazil, Argentina, Mexico and USA) with all Comnebol plus four qualifiers from CONCACAF Group A Brazil Colombia Ecuador Jamaica Group B Mexico Paraguay Peru Canada Group C USA Chile Venezuela Costa Rica Group D Argentina Uruguay Bolivia Honduras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Of course we'd have to go through and arduous qualifying process, as being Canadian no one wants us at the party. Likely two rounds of two leg home and away prelims: First Qualifying Round Canada vs Cuba St. Vincent vs El Salvador Panama vs Haiti Guatemala vs Barbados Second qualifying round Costa Rica vs El Salvador Honduras vs Panama Jamaica vs Guatemala Trinidad vs Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 A Copa America for the Americas would have this problem: why should the weakest teams of Conmebol qualify automatically, as always has been the case (Venezuela historically was the nation), while teams from Concacaf have to qualify? That would still mean it is a Conmebol competition with a northern adornment, which in the end is what it is now anyways. So what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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