Once a Whore...

[ted]

Mr. Whore-greaves "outed" by the team who cruelly gave him his big break and insensitively forced him to accept a multi-year deal for more money than the entire roster of Toronto FC will earn.

From the Guardian: http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1857093,00.html

quote:

Uli Hoeness, rounded on Hargreaves in front of the other players. "I am incredibly disappointed in you," he reportedly said. "You are prostituting yourself to Manchester United."

Sorry, couldn't resist. []

It could of course be worse. It might have been Arsenal trying to sign him and I would have had to boo a player on my favorite EPL team.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by ted

Mr. Whore-greaves "outed" by the team who cruelly gave him his big break and insensitively forced him to accept a multi-year deal for more money than the entire roster of Toronto FC will earn.

From the Guardian: http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,1857093,00.html

Sorry, couldn't resist. []

It could of course be worse. It might have been Arsenal trying to sign him and I would have had to boo a player on my favorite EPL team.

Seems Owen is now telling the press that the reason he chose England as his country over waiting to become German is that he knew, some day, a German coach would be mean to him on the training ground.

[manutd1]

Not that I agree with his choice of England over Canada, but there are many other players in many other countries that play for a different country than they grew up in. Maybe instead of criticizing this guy year after year we should ask ourselves how he wasn't picked up for one of our national youth teams instead. The slander is getting a little old.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by manutd1

Not that I agree with his choice of England over Canada, but there are many other players in many other countries that play for a different country than they grew up in. Maybe instead of criticizing this guy year after year we should ask ourselves how he wasn't picked up for one of our national youth teams instead. The slander is getting a little old.

He was a 15 yrs old trying out for an U-17 NT. At this age things like that happen. He still made it to the final cut and the coach said that OH was too small and that he had better and bigger players ahead of him.

[ted]

quote:Originally posted by manutd1

... The slander is getting a little old.

Yeah, right. If it was Everton you'd be oh so supportive. []

What would soccer be without ancient, irrational and humourous tribal slanders?

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Bayern are stupid not to take the Man Utd offer, they have gotten a lot from Owen, and may not see such an offer ever again for him.

In general Bayern have a terribly haughtly attitude about players, they rob from all other German teams shamelessly and then go on about their dignity, their honour, their name. Just do business and leave the bs out I say. If you want to sell, do so, if not just indicate that you consider Owen a key player for you and convince him to stay. And pay him more money for his services, at Man Utd he'd likely be paid a million to a million and a half pounds a year.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Bayern are stupid not to take the Man Utd offer, they have gotten a lot from Owen, and may not see such an offer ever again for him.

In general Bayern have a terribly haughtly attitude about players, they rob from all other German teams shamelessly and then go on about their dignity, their honour, their name. Just do business and leave the bs out I say. If you want to sell, do so, if not just indicate that you consider Owen a key player for you and convince him to stay. And pay him more money for his services, at Man Utd he'd likely be paid a million to a million and a half pounds a year.

Or how about this....just say you are not selling and DO NOT pay him more money as the contract that OH willingly signed is still valid.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Or how about this....just say you are not selling and DO NOT pay him more money as the contract that OH willingly signed is still valid.

Of course, good idea. Only there is no way you are going to get another similar offer for Owen, as he is not going to shine for Bayern in Europe and will likely fall back into the football version of the middle class over the next few years. Sure, maybe he will have a good game for England vs. Andorra next week, but seriously, for a player like that, who is just competent to good and was voted best for England on the basis of his last game only (Portugal, and the vote was mostly designed to chasten the rest of the squad), you have to be serious as a club. Meaning sell when you can, or make the deal, and start thinking about the dozens of alternatives out there for half the price who can do the same job. And happily to boot.

The only thing I would say against Owen is that he was very conservative and signed an overly long contract.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Of course, good idea. Only there is no way you are going to get another similar offer for Owen, as he is not going to shine for Bayern in Europe and will likely fall back into the football version of the middle class over the next few years. Sure, maybe he will have a good game for England vs. Andorra next week, but seriously, for a player like that, who is just competent to good and was voted best for England on the basis of his last game only (Portugal, and the vote was mostly designed to chasten the rest of the squad), you have to be serious as a club. Meaning sell when you can, or make the deal, and start thinking about the dozens of alternatives out there for half the price who can do the same job. And happily to boot.

All the more reason to NOT give him a raise....no?

quote:The only thing I would say against Owen is that he was very conservative and signed an overly long contract.

And now he should live with it.

[manutd1]

If it was Everton he was going to I'd feel the same way; its not because its Manchester United he might go to! You know, if we had a well organized national team program, the JDG's and Hargreaves's and Fernandes's's would be here and ready to play. When I step back and look at the way the program is run, the leadership at the CSA have less interest in success than these players do. Why should we ask for their committment when the leadership are not showing it?

[Marc]

Because playing for your country is not club football. That's why they are two separate entities.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

van Bommel has signed for Bayern.

Bye, bye, Owen.

[john tv]

Wrong again loud .... he is replacing Ballack,just for your very limited soccer know how.Why are you so horrible negative,get a kick out of it.Bye bye Owen, what are you trying to do or accomplis anyway. Get your facts straight.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

van Bommel has signed for Bayern.

Bye, bye, Owen.

I sort of agree, though we will find out in a few days. If they had really thought they needed to solve Ballack's absence they would have done so two months ago and not waited until now (I am not sure who they have signed in fact in attacking mid this summer). Signing Van Bommel does give them an option for the middle in case they do decide to be reasonable and sell Owen. In fact, though, they were interested in MVB last year as well, and since IMO he is the most expendable of Barça players (I think he is the worst passer on the Dutch national team, and the worst at Barça, he can handle long hard passes and can shoot from outside the box, but is decidely un-Dutch when it comes to competent, moderately subtle movement of the ball in the middle), I am glad to see him go. 6 million Euros plus one in case of club success.

Now for Bayern to get that back and three times more by selling Owen.

[Manuel]

I hate to say this, but I think it looks like Owen made the right choice choosing England. The guys only 25 and has played in two World Cups and a European Cup, and he will be there again in 2008. Now Canada, in the past 4 years, hasn’t even been able to get out of their qualifying groups, have only played 5 or 6 home games in the 10 years, or it seems like, the CSA is a joke, people hired by the CSA quitting all the time. I bet Owen doesn’t have any regrets. By the time his career is over he will have played in 3 World Cups and 2 European Cups. And Canada, well, a few Gold Cups.

[shaku_bert]

quote:Originally posted by Manuel

I hate to say this, but I think it looks like Owen made the right choice choosing England. The guys only 25 and has played in two World Cups and a European Cup, and he will be there again in 2008. Now Canada, in the past 4 years, hasn’t even been able to get out of their qualifying groups, have only played 5 or 6 home games in the 10 years, or it seems like, the CSA is a joke, people hired by the CSA quitting all the time. I bet Owen doesn’t have any regrets. By the time his career is over he will have played in 3 World Cups and 2 European Cups. And Canada, well, a few Gold Cups.

Yep, no refuting that. It's just like my buddy Ned. He is also 25. He murdered his parents and got their inheritance. Now he travels the world spending their fortune. Had he not murdered the people who nurtured and supported him, the best he would be doing with his joke salary and crappy job is the occassional jaunt to Fargo, ND with his buddy Shaku_bert in their rattle-trap car.

/<sarcasm off>

My story is over the top, I know, but what I don't get is the mindset of people who think that, as long you benefit personally, who gives a rip about what it was you did to get the benefit.

And I think that turning his back on his country was wrong.

[manutd1]

The problem is that the CSA didn't nurture him; a private soccer coach from Germany nurtured him, and that was until he was 16. From that point it was Bayern who did the work. I agree that when he was younger he obviously benefitted, but I don't think Canada can take full credit for making this guy the player he has turned out to be. The facts just don't support that. I don't feel good about him not representing Canada, but the truth is the CSA's neglect and incompetence makes it an easy choice. There is no stability, there is no progression. Even without Hargreaves we should have been in the World Cup, but the CSA is not interested in bringing our guys together for the requisite amount of time. In their next game (Jamaica) they get to be coached by someone who has never played professionally, and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves. How motivated do you think that makes them feel to fly 2,000 miles back here?

[manutd1]

The problem is that the CSA didn't nurture him; a private soccer coach from Germany nurtured him, and that was until he was 16. From that point it was Bayern who did the work. I agree that when he was younger he obviously benefitted, but I don't think Canada can take full credit for making this guy the player he has turned out to be. The facts just don't support that. I don't feel good about him not representing Canada, but the truth is the CSA's neglect and incompetence makes it an easy choice. There is no stability, there is no progression. Even without Hargreaves we should have been in the World Cup, but the CSA is not interested in bringing our guys together for the requisite amount of time. In their next game (Jamaica) they get to be coached by someone who has never played professionally, and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves. How motivated do you think that makes them feel to fly 2,000 miles back here?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by manutd1

In their next game (Jamaica) they get to be coached by someone who has never played professionally, and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves. How motivated do you think that makes them feel to fly 2,000 miles back here?

I can name you a lot of pro coaches who haven't played pro and are well respected (Jeff Van Gundy is a good example, Mike Keenan is another one, Bill Parcells).

So if players disrespect Hart because he never played pro they are idiots...

Could you please back up this statement "and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves"?

I'm not saying that Hart is a great coach but just showing that your post is completely random comment with nothing to back it up.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by manutd1

In their next game (Jamaica) they get to be coached by someone who has never played professionally, and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves. How motivated do you think that makes them feel to fly 2,000 miles back here?

I can name you a lot of pro coaches who haven't played pro and are well respected (Jeff Van Gundy is a good example, Mike Keenan is another one, Bill Parcells).

So if players disrespect Hart because he never played pro they are idiots...

Could you please back up this statement "and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves"?

I'm not saying that Hart is a great coach but just showing that your post is completely random comment with nothing to back it up.

[EZmac]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I can name you a lot of pro coaches who haven't played pro and are well respected (Jeff Van Gundy is a good example, Mike Keenan is another one, Bill Parcells).

So if players disrespect Hart because he never played pro they are idiots...

Could you please back up this statement "and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves"?

I'm not saying that Hart is a great coach but just showing that your post is completely random comment with nothing to back it up.

To add, isn't Hart still temporary? At least Canada is getting a game.

[EZmac]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I can name you a lot of pro coaches who haven't played pro and are well respected (Jeff Van Gundy is a good example, Mike Keenan is another one, Bill Parcells).

So if players disrespect Hart because he never played pro they are idiots...

Could you please back up this statement "and who has less understanding of the game than the players themselves"?

I'm not saying that Hart is a great coach but just showing that your post is completely random comment with nothing to back it up.

To add, isn't Hart still temporary? At least Canada is getting a game.

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by manutd1

The problem is that the CSA didn't nurture him; a private soccer coach from Germany nurtured him, and that was until he was 16.

Uhh...the private soccer coach lived in Canada right? So Owen didn't owe Germany anything. Owen was born here, began playing here and learned the basics here. That's it. He played in the parks, went to school and even drove on the same crappy Calgary roads that Canadian taxpayers maintain.

He obviously must have had some talent otherwise Bayern would never have signed him. I mean if he didn't have any talent, maybe all of us should go try out and have Bayern develop us...

[manutd1]

Your point is well taken, many good coaches have not played professionally, the difference is that they are not engaged by national teams before they have achieved some measure of success in the professional game! If they haven't got this then I would at least expect us to engage someone who has played at an elite level. Our players like Stalteri and Brennan are not idiots for expecting a coach who has at least as much professional experience in the game as they have...My point is we can and should expect better...

[manutd1]

No your right, Owen didn't owe Germany anything...I mean his coach was from there, the team that took him from a quality 16 year old to an England international was from there...but no the fact that he drove on taxpayer maintained roads is enough...come on.