Canada: "What we must do to end the embarrassment"

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Sometimes I think the developmental angle is a load. Tune into the WC for an hour. Does Japan have more talent than Canada? Not if we have our best players committed to our cause. You can't tell me Australia qualified because of their new A-league. Get a decent manager, get our best 18-20 players together on a regular basis, and play some games! Bate can run around the country making speechs like this but it's not going to build the English pyramid. He won't even build the Maltese league! Who cares at the end of the day? We're developing good players only a notch or two below world class in spite of all these problems. Get them together, feeling like countrymen. This is the only difference I see between us and Australia.

I think this is right, good post. The players are there, I look at Oneywu for the US and think, this guy developed at La Louvière with Klukowski, both have moved up a notch to top Belgian teams. Okay, he's not fantastic, but good enough to get the States to the Cup. Who wants to argue that Kluka could not do that role for Canada?

Meaning the real question is results, and you can't get them if you are not playing together, playing to win, fighting to be competitive, getting a clear idea of what way you will play, what the core of the team is, what the competitive expectations are.

To do that you also need a good organization (like clubs usually fail with weak presidents, in spite of the quality of players, so with national teams) that is behind you, looking at details, striving for a competitive edge.

As for Bate's comment about coaching, I think it is time coaches had some kind of accreditation before doing so, otherwise they are just like camp counselors or something, they are just there making the kids run around. Even when I had my son in a Whitecaps camp last summer, in spite of good organization and very pleasant pros doing the work, there was no concept at all of making these kids compete, as if they were afraid of the idea (after dividing the groups up during the week, the final day tournament was played with different groups, ignoring the way scrimmages had been played in previous practice (go from 5 on 5 to putting everone in at once, really dumb stuff). Terrible thing is we have this politically correct pseudo-ethics that justifies these attitudes, they think that having a group win and another lose is a bad thing, while I think that the way kids are today, ordering around their weak-kneed parents (like me, and I love it that way) and talking back, losing on the sport field is a wonderfully positive experience. Since they have trouble losing at home. But for that to happen they also have to have a chance to win.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

being born and raised in Calgary says Canada to me.

Funny.

And here I thought his shirt read "ENGLAND".

There is however, as mentioned, a Canadian at this years world cup.

http://winnipegref.blogspot.com/

sj, fishman. Good posts. I would like to just add that I think there is so little confindense in the CSA, and indeed in some of the provincial associations that many clubs and community associations have as much as washed their hands of dealing with these entities on anything other than a case by case, program by program basis. Is it pretty much every man(club/association) for himself at this point? Probably. But that's not the local club/association's fault. Not by a long shot.

And everyone has to keep in mind that Bates is seeing things through a very English filter. Where the FA uses EPL revenue to heavily subsidise the administrative/league costs of all the lower leagues. If you bring the cash to the table you get to make the orders and that isn't happening in Canada, where the provincialy registered soccer players finance the lion's share of the CSA.

Rehashed, but always an interesting topic all the same. Sadly, we seem to hear the same old tune every few years just from a differnet source. Bit tiresome.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Funny.

And here I thought his shirt read "ENGLAND".

There is however, as mentioned, a Canadian at this years world cup.

http://winnipegref.blogspot.com/

sj, fishman. Good posts. I would like to just add that I think there is so little confindense in the CSA, and indeed in some of the provincial associations that many clubs and community associations have as much as washed their hands of dealing with these entities on anything other than a case by case, program by program basis. Is it pretty much every man(club/association) for himself at this point? Probably. But that's not the local club/association's fault. Not by a long shot.

And everyone has to keep in mind that Bates is seeing things through a very English filter. Where the FA uses EPL revenue to heavily subsidise the administrative/league costs of all the lower leagues. If you bring the cash to the table you get to make the orders and that isn't happening in Canada, where the provincialy registered soccer players finance the lion's share of the CSA.

Rehashed, but always an interesting topic all the same. Sadly, we seem to hear the same old tune every few years just from a differnet source. Bit tiresome.

For some reason, I find this picture completely hilarious. A referee training session...

[Canuck Oranje]

I agree with Cheeta on this one. The main problem in the Canadian structure is that the national association is constantly attempting to extract cash from youth soccer without giving much in value back to the community clubs. Over the years, the CSA has lost a lot of credibility for that very reason.

Most countries that we compare ourselves to have a solid professional side of the game which means player development is done by professional teams rather than the national association. National youth teams in these countries are not as much about player development as it is national team development.

As for the power of provincial associations, I suspect the national association in Brazil (CBF) treads very lightly with the key State associations like Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Rio Grande de Sol and Minas Gerais as well because they would lose a power struggle with these State associations on domestic matters. Having said that, the CBF benefits from having an attractive product (the Brazilian national team) to sell to sponsors and wealthy nations looking for a game. On top of that, it has the relations with FIFA that make all international player movements go through the CBF but I doubt it would counter the wishes of the big professional clubs on these matters.

I am not sure about how things are in the USA but I am sure there are lessons there as well.

I am also not sure that it is useful to attempt to impose a European structure on a geographically large country like Canada. Distance has a way of negating any advantages. However, I am sure there are some things that could be adapted.

The CSA needs to regain credibility with both the Provincial Associations and the community clubs. Simply demanding more money from them without results is not working. I also don't believe that the CSA has done that great a job in mining potential sponsorship dollars. Soccer is the sport of middle class suburbanites. You would think every consumer product company would want a piece of the action.

On coaching and other development issues, the CSA needs to focus intently on the gap. That is the elite development for youth at an age between about 15-20. Only after that gap is dealt with and showing results should they look beyond that. And moving to lower age groups should only focus on high level structural issues (like maintaining and improving uniform coach's training, etc) rather than attempting to get involved in areas that are the domain of youth clubs and provincial associations.

Finally, the single most effective way to move the system forward in the right direction is through results. I believe we already have the players to make an impact at the international level but we are seemingly satisfied with less than prime quality coaches at the national level. In my view, that is a clear starting point given our current situation. Surprise victories over traditional powers would lead to more attention which leads to more interest from sponsors and countries looking for a game.

[Daniel]

I think we err from the moment we teach most kids how a drop ball situation works. The proper way is "give it to the team that had the ball" whereas we teach "once the ball hits the ground, it's all-systems go".

[ANC2]

The CSA has to see the MENS' World Cup Team (Yes Mens') as the priority and spend the money to get them to the WC. Its the only true stage that brings respectability.

Then the youth programs must be funded to the maximum, especially at the U16 and U20 level. Not for them to get results but for them to find the best players and give them experience at the highest level on a consistent basis. The more players that get this experience the larger the base will be for selection to the senior team

[Free kick]

I am little disappointed by some of the responses here. It highlights why we dont make it to the World Cup, namely too many in Canada ( including some on this board) dont want us to. The last and only time that I can think of when the CSA tried to exract money from youth soccer was to create a new national youth side, specificaly an U 16 side. This was part of Hogler Osciek's recomendation and this came about because we dont have profession clubs large enough to do the development work for soccer in canada. If I am not mistaken, the idea was to raise registration fees by some 1-3 dollars year. Since about that time we have started qualifying regularly for the U20 WC. Yet the measly 1-3$ increase caused an an uproar in some quarters, judging from published reports and discussions on this board. This tells you about the kind of small picture mentality that exists out there. For proof, I still recall that quote ( on this board from a while back) from that youth soccer poobah in Alberta who applauded Owen Hargreaves for choosing England over Canada. That should tell you something about the kind of people who are involved in soccer at the grass roots. I'll bet that if their comittment was to soccer in canada rather than padding the "voluteer work" section on their resume , we would be playing in germany right now.

So why should the CSA give anything back to the youth associations or provincial associations when they have no interest in international soccer or developing players for our national sides. Their priorities are probably babysitting and things like uniforms. I'll bet that most of these poobah at the grass roots don't even follow soccer. Those that do, support only England or Scotland. Besides, all of the players on our national teams (past and present)come from only four provinces and even those from those four provinces have for the most part learned to play the game outside of the country ( Europe and US colleges). So what damn good have these provincial/local associations done? and why should they get anything back?

With that in mind, Its pretty obvious why the CSA chose to get in bed with MLSE. What else would you do? More than half of the registered players in Canada are girls and that earlier statistic ( ie.: most of the registered players being under the age of 12)that someone mention should tell you everything. I dont call that " doing a good job" from the grassroot. There are plenty of things to bitch at the CSA for. Things like, ticket allocation and seating arrangment for its supporters at international matches and the way they measure success of the program as whole is another. Organization promotional of freindlies matches is another. In terms of player development or lack thereof, thats not the fault of people like Bates, Michell, Hart, Yallop, Osciek and the CSA? and who are you more likely to trust, some local association/provicial guy or those I mentioned above? How many of us can even name the head of their own provincial soccer association?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by sj

all those issues are known issues for at least 2 decades,

Did the CSA really found out about them only after having Bates going across the country.

For what the CSA are getting paid to do they could not figure that out by themselves?

I am sure those Issues has been mentioned again in Holger's blueprintof some 8 yrs ago

We are being told now about things that we are already knew 20 = yrs ago and this is suppose to new developments in the soccer landscape of this country that needs tackles if we need to move forward.

sounds like the CSA staff is as incompetent in identifying quality players as they are at idenifying and solving shortcomings

in every business there are shortcomings and issues that is why we have a paid Ceo, Directors and Managers to solve problems.

after 20 yrs of fruitless atempts

i'll say they should be out of a job.

they knew when the took the job what kind of a budget they would have to do it with.

now after 20+ yrs are they saying it could not be done and can't be done under those financial restrictions

they have been buying time for the last 20 yrs and are hoping that they can buy another 20 yrs by releasing the same old unsolved issues while we keep watching more and more teams most alarmingly in our own region surpassing us to the point where a playoff spot is seems to be the only thing we can aim for.

without accountability is should be the driving force not money.

Yawn!!

[Canuck Oranje]

Have you ever been involved in youth soccer? At what level? If you are, maybe you should get more involved so you can impose your ideas on that club.

When you ask for money from community clubs, it's only fair that the clubs ask why and what for? And how will I know that you will do what you say? It's called accountability.

I doubt any other national association would get away with anything less.

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I am little disappointed by some of the responses here. It highlights why we dont make it to the World Cup, namely too many in Canada ( including some on this board) dont want us to. The last and only time that I can think of when the CSA tried to exract money from youth soccer was to create a new national youth side, specificaly an U 16 side. This was part of Hogler Osciek's recomendation and this came about because we dont have profession clubs large enough to do the development work for soccer in canada. If I am not mistaken, the idea was to raise registration fees by some 1-3 dollars year. Since about that time we have started qualifying regularly for the U20 WC. Yet the measly 1-3$ increase caused an an uproar in some quarters, judging from published reports and discussions on this board. This tells you about the kind of small picture mentality that exists out there. For proof, I still recall that quote ( on this board from a while back) from that youth soccer poobah in Alberta who applauded Owen Hargreaves for choosing England over Canada. That should tell you something about the kind of people who are involved in soccer at the grass roots. I'll bet that if their comittment was to soccer in canada rather than padding the "voluteer work" section on their resume , we would be playing in germany right now.

So why should the CSA give anything back to the youth associations or provincial associations when they have no interest in international soccer or developing players for our national sides. Their priorities are probably babysitting and things like uniforms. I'll bet that most of these poobah at the grass roots don't even follow soccer. Those that do, support only England or Scotland. Besides, all of the players on our national teams (past and present)come from only four provinces and even those from those four provinces have for the most part learned to play the game outside of the country ( Europe and US colleges). So what damn good have these provincial/local associations done? and why should they get anything back?

With that in mind, Its pretty obvious why the CSA chose to get in bed with MLSE. What else would you do? More than half of the registered players in Canada are girls and that earlier statistic ( ie.: most of the registered players being under the age of 12)that someone mention should tell you everything. I dont call that " doing a good job" from the grassroot. There are plenty of things to bitch at the CSA for. Things like, ticket allocation and seating arrangment for its supporters at international matches and the way they measure success of the program as whole is another. Organization promotional of freindlies matches is another. In terms of player development or lack thereof, thats not the fault of people like Bates, Michell, Hart, Yallop, Osciek and the CSA? and who are you more likely to trust, some local association/provicial guy or those I mentioned above? How many of us can even name the head of their own provincial soccer association?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

The CSA needs to regain credibility with both the Provincial Associations and the community clubs. Simply demanding more money from them without results is not working. I also don't believe that the CSA has done that great a job in mining potential sponsorship dollars. Soccer is the sport of middle class suburbanites. You would think every consumer product company would want a piece of the action.

On coaching and other development issues, the CSA needs to focus intently on the gap. That is the elite development for youth at an age between about 15-20. Only after that gap is dealt with and showing results should they look beyond that. And moving to lower age groups should only focus on high level structural issues (like maintaining and improving uniform coach's training, etc) rather than attempting to get involved in areas that are the domain of youth clubs and provincial associations.

Finally, the single most effective way to move the system forward in the right direction is through results. I believe we already have the players to make an impact at the international level but we are seemingly satisfied with less than prime quality coaches at the national level. In my view, that is a clear starting point given our current situation. Surprise victories over traditional powers would lead to more attention which leads to more interest from sponsors and countries looking for a game.

Well I have to disagree. The provincial associations should all read the the quote from JFK. " Ask not what your country ( ie CSA) can do for you but rather, what you can do for your country". Thats why we have the problem of an inverted pyramid that Bates talks about in the first place.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Have you ever been involved in youth soccer? At what level? If you are, maybe you should get more involved so you can impose your ideas on that club.

When you ask for money from community clubs, it's only fair that the clubs ask why and what for? And how will I know that you will do what you say? It's called accountability.

I doubt any other national association would get away with anything less.

[The Ref]

This may be obvious, but perhaps not to many who are not directly connected with the youth system and its registration costs. Clubs do not pay registration fees to the CSA. Their registration fees, which are set by the club, cover their operation and a fee payable to the Provincial Assoc. The provinces set their own fee and use that money to run their business and pay a fee to the CSA. The CSA again sets their own fee. So there are three sets of fees involved for youth, lots of intermediaries and perhaps duplication. Select or all-star groups operate much the same as a club, except their expenses to run their programs tend to be higher. The famous Super Y-League from the U.S. to which many canadian teams now subscribe to, is a totally separate organization with super high costs to pay for all the fanfare.

[terpfan68]

You ask for money from community club soccer to support national programs. Well, I'd rather it go for that than for hockey. Here in Winnipeg, community clubs use youth soccer as a cash cow to subsidise youth hockey. Plus the city subsidises hockey arenas and we still do not have a city facility for indoor like cities one third our size.

[Canuck Oranje]

First of all, I am well aware of the costs involved in running a community club.

Secondly, I am not talking about what the money requested was for with the last attempt to get money from community associations. I am talking generally about a national association going to clubs without clearly specifying what it will be used for and respecting those do their best collecting that money through registration fees.

The last request was not managed well by the CSA.

The unpaid volunteers at the community level deserve some respect from the provincial and national associations. By that, I mean respect for those that actually try to manage the club. In other words, those that spend their free time in the summer having to juggle the fees associated with running a club, manage expectations of a wide range of parents, make sure the club has qualified referees on all the fields when parents and coaches discourage them through their antics on the sidelines, and find a complete set of coaches (and hopefully, someone that knows the game)to cover all the teams they have.

Then all you need is some governing body (not necessarily the national body)or municipality deciding they are going to increase their charges to the club after player registrations have been completed. The bureaucracy in this sport is not at the community level. It is what lies above them. Streamlining the bureaucracy is one thing I can certainly agree with.

Community clubs feel resentment when they feel like "cash cows" getting milked all the time. Most community clubs that I have been involved with are reasonably well run by committed individuals wanting the best for the sport (not just the club). Of course there are always individuals that can be difficult and some clubs have been burned by them.

The simple fact is this. Fix the bureaucracy first. That in itself might be enough to satisfy the community clubs.

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

The example I mentioned ( raising the registration fees to create the U16 side) is perfect one. You stated: "When you ask for money from community clubs, it's only fair that the clubs ask why and what for? And how will I know that you will do what you say? It's called accountability.". Well in that case it was made pretty clear what the money was for. Namely, to create an U16 side that we did not have at the time. I do not see any question in terms of acountability there. Yet there was still some opposition. One would think that anyone in charge of youth soccer would have seen the benefit of this idea to the program as a whole and the avenue that this creates for those player under their jurisdiction who possess exceptional talents and have a future in the game. I am sure that you will agree, that in the absense of a well funded professional structure, a national youth U16 side is a big part of the development process for soccer in Canada, is it not?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

You ask for money from community club soccer to support national programs. Well, I'd rather it go for that than for hockey. Here in Winnipeg, community clubs use youth soccer as a cash cow to subsidise youth hockey. Plus the city subsidises hockey arenas and we still do not have a city facility for indoor like cities one third our size.

Thank you for your example!!!!. Thats is exactly what I have thought and suspected all along. How many more examples of this are there out there? That is why its at the grassroots and not the CSA where the development problem lies. Thats is alos why we hear quotes from players who moved to the youth systems in europe that to develope as a player, the earlier you go to europe, the better.

Also, its pretty obvious where our problems lie in international competitions. Its goal scoring. The skills that you need to enhance goal scoring are developed at a much earlier age than other skills in the game. Is it the CSA and Kevan Pipe who is reponsible for our lacking in this area? or it is the youth coaches, administators, provincial associations etc?

[Canuck Oranje]

Transfer between sportst may be the case where a city runs the soccer club.

But here in Ontario, most community clubs are run by a completely separate organization from other sports. The only way to transfer money from one sport to another is through city user fees. That is that the soccer club is forced to pay a greater share of the city's cost in providing soccer fields than do hockey clubs in paying for maintenance of hockey arenas. Even then it is not an easy case to make because some of the cost related to recreational facilities are paid for through the property tax base. And that is the city and not the soccer club.

And Free Kick, you still have avoided my question, what is your involvement/experience in working at the grassroots? It is so easy to criticize from a safe distance. The biggest problem at the grassroots is the lack of experienced and knowledgeable volunteers (administrators, coaches, and referees). You and others here could easily become part of the solution.

Richard Bate would probably agree with me on that point as well as the fact that the bureaucracy between the community club and the national association is too cumbersome. What happens within the community clubs are not all that different from what happens elsewhere in the world except without the soccer experience and culture that supports player development elsewhere in the world.

On the lack of goalscoring in Canada, it is so incredibly naive to think that coaches of young kids have a lot to do with that. Goalscoring comes the creativity that comes from free play. Kids in Holland and Brazil do not practice with coaches any more than they do in Canada. The difference is in what those kids do between those practices.

Young Brazilian kids that actually play organized soccer are really not that different than Canadian kids of the same age when in an organized practice. They want to play and whine to coaches for a scrimmage as they do here. Trial and error on the playground has more to do with creating goalscorers than dribbling around or through cones. Coaches of young kids in Holland are also parent volunteers.

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Thank you for your example!!!!. Thats is exactly what I have thought and suspected all along. How many more examples of this are there out there? That is why its at the grassroots and not the CSA where the development problem lies. Thats is alos why we hear quotes from players who moved to the youth systems in europe that to develope as a player, the earlier you go to europe, the better.

Also, its pretty obvious where our problems lie in international competitions. Its goal scoring. The skills that you need to enhance goal scoring are developed at a much earlier age than other skills in the game. Is it the CSA and Kevan Pipe who is reponsible for our lacking in this area? or it is the youth coaches, administators, provincial associations etc?

[terpfan68]

Here in Winnipeg Community Clubs register the bulk of the youth soccer players. Extremely large numbers of tot and mini players pay low fees for inhouse programs that bring in huge $ to the community clubs. Since the clubs are mostly controlled by an executive made up of hockey parents who are interested in keeping the cost of hockey to a reasonable level they use excess soccer revenues to pay for "general" expenses like outdoor rinks, lighting of outdoor rinks, maintaining outdoor rinks etc. I was a soccer parent (19 years), coach (9 years) and convenor (8 years) and in that time I saw up to $8 000 a year turned over to the club at the end of the fiscal year for "general" expenses. When I pointed it out, I was told that Community Clubs were organized for hockey and that the other sports were just something to do when there was no ice. Since most of the parents are not really soccer fans I eventually stopped trying to convince anyone. Now my children are out of the yourth program and in adult programs which have different problems. Note: If soccer clubs were to "takeover" the entire program there would be more money for facilities (read fields and indoor arenas)and the CSA but that would need city gov. approval and the hockey lobby is very strong. The Canadian identity as a Hockey Country is holding back soccer development. (This also happened in the US, but football was the bad guy there.) The facts are that each level of soccer development has their own problems and one solution will not provide a solution for each level's problems

[Canuck Oranje]

It is interesting that you have a different structure altogether there. All the clubs I have been involved with here in Ontario are not-for-profit community based soccer specific clubs (I am not aware of any organized in Ontario as yours). Of the people involved in administration here, I don't know one who would have been viewed as a hockey-first parent but that is likely due to the soccer-specific nature here.

In terms of the break down of registrations, it sounds similar. Lots of young kids and fewer teenagers.

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Here in Winnipeg Community Clubs register the bulk of the youth soccer players. Extremely large numbers of tot and mini players pay low fees for inhouse programs that bring in huge $ to the community clubs. Since the clubs are mostly controlled by an executive made up of hockey parents who are interested in keeping the cost of hockey to a reasonable level they use excess soccer revenues to pay for "general" expenses like outdoor rinks, lighting of outdoor rinks, maintaining outdoor rinks etc. I was a soccer parent (19 years), coach (9 years) and convenor (8 years) and in that time I saw up to $8 000 a year turned over to the club at the end of the fiscal year for "general" expenses. When I pointed it out, I was told that Community Clubs were organized for hockey and that the other sports were just something to do when there was no ice. Since most of the parents are not really soccer fans I eventually stopped trying to convince anyone. Now my children are out of the yourth program and in adult programs which have different problems. Note: If soccer clubs were to "takeover" the entire program there would be more money for facilities (read fields and indoor arenas)and the CSA but that would need city gov. approval and the hockey lobby is very strong. The Canadian identity as a Hockey Country is holding back soccer development. (This also happened in the US, but football was the bad guy there.) The facts are that each level of soccer development has their own problems and one solution will not provide a solution for each level's problems

[harwood]

This is probably pretty obvious but I think you are onto something here. Do Cdn kids play soccer between practice?

(I just have a couple of wee-uns and have lost touch w/today's 'youth'. I bet I would be hard pressed to find a game of 'pickup' where 'kids' are playing)

If they are too busy playing road hockey in the summer between practices then there isn't much a volunteer coach/parent can do. Would be interesting to see the numbers of kids enrolled in soccer to see what they do between practice?

If low numbers, then how to get them to play soccer between practice? Ban road hockey like they do in Hamilton?

Soccer camps are probably too rigid and costly and would appear too much like practice.

Ideas? Edumacte me!

What about local 5 on 5 tournaments ... no coaches or refs, call your own fouls, no goalies? ... or something like that. (Similar to b-ball 3 on 3)

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Transfer between sportst may be the case where a city runs the soccer club.

<snip>

On the lack of goalscoring in Canada, it is so incredibly naive to think that coaches of young kids have a lot to do with that. Goalscoring comes the creativity that comes from free play. Kids in Holland and Brazil do not practice with coaches any more than they do in Canada. The difference is in what those kids do between those practices.

Young Brazilian kids that actually play organized soccer are really not that different than Canadian kids of the same age when in an organized practice. They want to play and whine to coaches for a scrimmage as they do here. Trial and error on the playground has more to do with creating goalscorers than dribbling around or through cones. Coaches of young kids in Holland are also parent volunteers.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by harwood

This is probably pretty obvious but I think you are onto something here. Do Cdn kids play soccer between practice?

(I just have a couple of wee-uns and have lost touch w/today's 'youth'. I bet I would be hard pressed to find a game of 'pickup' where 'kids' are playing)

If they are too busy playing road hockey in the summer between practices then there isn't much a volunteer coach/parent can do. Would be interesting to see the numbers of kids enrolled in soccer to see what they do between practice?

If low numbers, then how to get them to play soccer between practice? Ban road hockey like they do in Hamilton?

Soccer camps are probably too rigid and costly and would appear too much like practice.

Ideas? Edumacte me!

What about local 5 on 5 tournaments ... no coaches or refs, call your own fouls, no goalies? ... or something like that. (Similar to b-ball 3 on 3)

For what it's worth, every lunch I pass by an elementary school on the way home, and at recess the game the majority of the kids are playing: soccer. When I was a kid growing up in Prince George--small community in north-central BC--we played soccer at recess, as well as some football and girl chasing. I think kids are playing soccer in their free time for sure.

[Robert]

Why doesn't the CSA organize a domestic competition that offers a substantial financial reward to the winners. Why not use all that money coming in from Banks and Laundry Detergent companies as an incentive. A national body should be able to easily outmuscle provincial bodies when it comes to putting up prize money. That is if Kevan isn't skimming too many of the sponsorship dollars for himself. How do you earn all that money, Kevan? As long as you can live in the lap of luxury, the hell with Canadian soccer, eh? DMF.

[Guest Domi Rulezz]

I think Robert is secretly in love with Kevan Pipe.

[Ashton Gate]

Here's an article interviewing Holger Osieck on the subject:

Where's Canada?

Lack of direction a problem

By ROB LONGLEY -- Toronto Sun

Tue, June 20, 2006

FRANKFURT -- They hang from windows of hotel rooms and cars and from the walls of restaurants and bars.

They are draped around shoulders, waved wildly in the stadiums and in the train stations.

There are the tricolours of Mexico, Italy or Portugal, the Stars and Stripes of the U.S. and 28 more.

For two decades now, the Maple Leaf has not flown at the quadrennial celebration that is soccer's World Cup.

Since the country made its lone appearance in Mexico in 1986, the closest our flag has gotten to the action is on luggage tags of Canadian visitors lucky enough to get tickets.

If you are a fan of Canadian soccer (and not just a soccer fan living in Canada, there is a difference), our ongoing failure is a saga of underachievement and incompetence.

From failed qualification attempts, to coaching changes to the widespread belief that soccer lacks proper infrastructure in our country, there is no sign of it ending.

"If the United States can qualify, I don't see why Canada can't," said Holger Osieck, who is head of technical development for FIFA technical but is better known to Canadians as the former head of our national team.

"I enjoyed living in Canada and am not in touch with the people there any longer. But yes, at times there was a sense of frustration of not moving forward. Everyone knows there are thousands of youngsters who play the game. But they need to be developed to have success internationally."

Even when there is a glimmer of hope, it seems, Canada can't make big enough steps forward.

Calgary's Owen Hargreaves is expected to start for England today against Sweden, a poor example for the youth of this country, but who could blame him for jumping ship?

The story has been told often, of Hargreaves being cut from our under-17 team but deemed talented enough to develop into a regular at midfield for powerful Bayern Munich here in Germany and eventually the England national side.

Taken a step further, Osieck's point about the U.S. now playing in its fifth consecutive World Cup is one thing. But tiny Togo and tinier Trinidad and Tobago are both here as well. Surely Canada can get to the dance once in a generation?

Osieck insists he isn't bitter about parting ways with the Canadian program in 2003, and landing a plum job with FIFA was a nice consolation. He said he loved the country and saw potential in the program. But he became increasingly frustrated at the lack of vision.

"My ideas were not a mystery, you can look it up," Osieck said yesterday during a break from his duties with FIFA. "I had come up with a very detailed blueprint for how to develop the sport in Canada.

"There were recommendations for a national training centre and other technical ideas to help develop players. Unfortunately, there wasn't always support."

Though he was often painted as being hard on his players, Osieck got results. In 2000, he led the Canadian men to what many considered a breakthrough victory.

A 2-0 shutout over Colombia in the CONCACEF Gold Cup was a shocker but a sign that the program was headed in the right direction.

But neither Osieck, who was let go in 2003, or his replacement Frank Yallop, who left earlier this month to take a job with the Los Angeles Galaxy in the MLS, were able to take the next, biggest step.

So now the program is without a coach and once again, it seems, direction.

Yallop had opted to go with a younger squad in the failed attempt to qualify for this year's event, a strategy that was hoped to yield big results for 2010.

If it us back to square one, how many more years might Canada struggle, especially a country already generations behind the powers of Europe and South America.

"I think we are still in our infancy," Brian Robinson, a former Canadian international star, said."Yes, we have players who go to Europe to play but we don't have enough of them.

"We don't have our own league here to develop more so I'm not surprised we don't see more talent coming through."

Canada's lone trip to the World Cup in 1986 was hardly a success -- three shutout losses and an early exit.

But few expected a return visit would take 20 years -- and counting.

There is a belief, perpetuated jointly by the Canadian Soccer Association, and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., that the arrival of an MLS team in 2007 will be a big boost.

Feel free to be skeptical, given how many times we've heard this drum pounded, but the hope is young players will somehow be inspired by the presence of a pro team.

"We see it as a great boost for the development of the sport," Kevan Pipe, the Canadian Soccer Association's chief operating officer, said in an earlier interview. "The under-21 World Cup (to be held in Canada in 2007) will do the same.

"We are not in as bad shape as some of the doom-and-gloomers would like to predict."

It's one thing to have role models. It's quite another to take advantage of those already at your disposal.

Alex Bunbury, for years one of Canada's top players and a professional star in Portugal, wonders why he hasn't been asked to give back to the sport in his homeland.

"I never went asking or knocking on doors, but I can tell you this, no one ever approached me and said, 'Alex Bunbury, with your name and what you've done in the game you should come back here and give back to the young people.'

"I have lots of friends in Europe who have done well and their name and activity in the sport is huge. It is an inspiration for the young people.

"It would be an honour and maybe it would inspire some young kids. But the passion and love we see for the game in other countries, we don't see from Canada."

Little wonder then, that players such as Hargreaves and Toronto's Jonathan De Guzman (who is part of the Dutch program), have had trouble pledging allegiance to the flag of the country in which they were raised.

Considering there is a window of opportunity of two, maybe three chances at a World Cup in one's career, players are unwilling to wait for Canadian soccer to get its act together.

"I still think we have a long way to go," Robinson said. "Still, we should be able to handle the United States and Mexico one of these years."

Osieck wishes luck to the next man who tries to make it happen. And warns that it will take more than talent.

"I spent some time there and tried to push things forward," Osieck said. "I thought for whatever reason we made some strides. That's history for me, but it seems there are still more strides that are needed to be made."

[Canuck Oranje]

Longley has put together an excellent article. For all Osieck faults as a coach, he does know development systems and is recognized in Europe for that.

Add the comments made in the article that Grizzly posted relating to the US challenges (World Soccer) and MLS's needes role in development, then I think the way forward becomes a little more clear. However, MLS clubs need to benefit from their own development activities.

South American teams probably generate more revenue from the development side of the club than they do from other sources (gate, TV, and sponsors). When Gremio of Porto Alegre, Brazil sells a 17-year-old Anderson (also Ronaldinho Gaucho's home club) to Porto for 5,000,000 Euros, it is a huge piece of their budget. It is also why Gremio focuses so much of their activity on their youth(Currently, they have three or four U-20s in their first team).

I feel the Toronto MLS franchise needs to push hard to get this youth system in place and control over it. A development team of U-20s or U-21s would be a big step forward. Then, it could do what I know the big clubs in Sao Paulo do and that is hold open tryouts and offer development advice to amateur clubs in the area. For Canada, it could be a way to help talent develop. For Toronto FC, it could eventually be a key revenue source on their way to sustainability.