July 9 GC - USA v Canada - POST-match [R]

[Neilmcgregor21]

I've played it back four times now. Donovan is offside for the last goal. Clearly. What's more, is it only me who's totally baffled by the penalty we never got in the first half when our guy (damn, can't remember who) was soooo clearly. I mean 100%, hauled down in the box?

Help me here guys. Why do the gods of soccer hate us so much?

[kelownaguy]

It's just so frustarating to watch when we finally get the ball into U.S. zone and string a few passes together,, we end up losing it everytime cause of our absolute zero creativity,, whenever we do get a rare good chance around the net (Bernier today, Brennan and a few others on Thurs) we absolutely choke,, like a hockeyplayer with stonehands... every game its like this ,, just drives me crazy.. You watch the U.S. pass the ball around on a string in our end and for most of the game it was like they were toying with us..We can barely put 2 passes together once we cross center..argghh,, it just gets so frustarating game after game. On the bright side ,, Simpson played great today in my opinion,, he makes some great runs with the ball,, same with Peters when he gets his shot,, very rare for Canadian players to have this ability, yet we have these 2 young guys who can both take on guys 1 on 1. A lot of guys played solid today,, overall it was a good effort,, we just need to generate some offence somehow..

[youllneverwalkalone]

I guess I should watch the replay, but the possession didn't seem that uneven to me. We certainly didn't get Harlem Globetrottered like the U20s against Colombia.

[kelownaguy]

It wasn't that one sided,, it was much more of a case of the American players knowing what to do with their possessions,, and our guys just not having a sniff when we get close to their goal..

[pstain]

The U.S. controlled this match. I'm not saying they dominated but they were in control when they had the ball and did not let Canada have too many chances when they were defending.

It's not only the skill level that's lacking but also the little things like finding space. It's so frustrating how our strikers can't time their runs correctly or stand still while one of the other players are being double teamed. They need to work on their movement and be able to create space.

[ken]

Before getting on the players, let me say how frustrating it is to be looking for silver linings in dark results. We lost, the idea is to to win. We did not score - again - if you do not score , you will not win.

Having said that, the team looked much better than thursday against Costa Rica. Passes were strung together, there was an air of confidence and belief about the team. This despite the fact that there were still too few real chances and some inexplicable personel decisions.

Greg Sutton; not at fault for either of the goals, seems to work well with the defence, appears to have a good leg on goal kicks, deserves the number one spot.

Adam Bras; showed more confidence out there than thursday, spread the ball around much better showed he belonged on the second eleven. He's not going to replace Stalteri, but could give Reda a run for back up.

Gabriel Gerevais; steadier on the line than mckenna ( talk about damning with faint praise) was not covering Donovan on the second goal, but did clear the goal off the line in the first half. Is acceptable as a starter now but not strong enough to be the starter going into the 2010 qualifiers.

Atiba Hutchinson; plays defence as well as, if not better than anyone else on this squad. He appears to have a setteling influence on the rest of the team (think back to the near panic at the back in the last few games). However he should not be back there, the idea behind the selection of this squad is to start the 2010 team development. Hutchinson is part of the midfield future (along with Brennan, Deguzeman and whoever claims the rm position), yes there have been injuries and suspensions, but the failure to select an adequate cb back up is the fault of the manager. Did score own goal, but the positives greatly outweigh the negatives.

Josh Simpson; great inprovement over CR, took on players, passes were effective almost drew a penalty, solidified claim to starting role on first team.

Patice Bernier; a step back, didn't seem to be as effective as against CR. Has to finish better, not helping his cause to the right mid position in the full squad.

Patrik Leduc; was stunned that he started after CR game, he did play better and thus justified some of FY's confidence in him. I wasn't as impressed as Craig and Gerry though. Let Dodds or someone else start against Cuba.

Adrien Serioux; was suprised that he started over Grande, did a good job though, right up until that red card. The card killed what ever momentum the team had towards tying the match (of course to tie you have to score). Not part of the mid field of the future except as a sub.

Jim Brennan; played much better than thursday, still not providing the crosses that he is capable of (ie the goal in NI) nor of doing the left side runs that he can.

Olivier Occean; an improvement over gerba, played well but did not get the service to get a serios scoring chance, I don't understand why he was subbed off.

Dwayne Derosario; a typically frustrating game from him, some good runs at defenders, a lot of offsides and some passes to nowhere, all would have been forgiven with a goal, but no such luck. I did not want him to be captain, not because he doesn't merit it, but because if he is captain it means that FY will not sub him off.

Jamie Peters; his two stints as a sub go a long way to rehabilitate his reputation after a somewhat lackluster u20 world cup. Was doing well on the right side but the red card put an end to that.

Ali Gerba; a wasted sub, not because he did poorly, but because Occean was doing better than he was likely to do, also it took away the chance to look at another player ( Dodds perhaps).

Sandro Grande; another puzzling sub, Grande is not really effective on the left, if Brennan was tired, put pozniak on as fullback and push simpson up to mid.

Over all a better showing than I expected against the US, apparantly our B team is more competitive against their B team than our C team against their C team (4-0 jan 2003). The style of play was a pleasant suprise, no bunker mentality , no booting the ball away at every chance. However our lack of scoring, and really our lack of serious scoring oppertunities is a real concern.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Another stupid card for dissent (or displaying passion and commitment to Canada depending on your point of view.)

Yes, because Serioux's whining at the Ref when the play was dead and our keeper was about to kick the ball upfield is just the sort of thing I was talking about, being an exact comparison to the team's captain objecting to a 100% incorrect penalty call that even Ray Charles today, being both blind and dead, would have been able to tell was not a penalty.

Come on Gordon, I think you could give me a little more credit than that.

Team discipline overall is a problem under Yallop, we had two players sent off in all of Holger's time as coach (a good 5 years) and have 5 already under Yallop (after a year as coach) - McKenna, Serioux, Gervais, Occean, and Stalteri. No question that this is a problem with Yallop as coach, unless you all think this reversal of red card fortunes is a mere coincidence, and alongside the puzzling starting of Leduc in this tourney, the two biggest criticisms I have of Yallop as a coach right now. Otherwise I think the team has looked good considering its inexperienced B team nature. No goals, true, but Yallop can't put the ball in the net and the team has played solid defensively and created scoring chances from the run of play against good teams.

Very agonizing, scoreline flattered the US, they probably should have won but for the second game in a row we lose on an un-earned goal (to use a baseball terminology), while having a player who should have been sent off (surprised no-one has mentioned this) scores an insurance goal while we are down to 10 men instead.

Gervais looked decent today, so I'm tempted, with Serioux gone, to go for a more offensive line-up, putting McKenna and Gervais at centre-back against Cuba and Atiba alongside Grande. Failing that give Rhian Dodds a chance, please bench Leduc I think we've seen enough. Anyone know why Grande didn't start?

I hope Hume is healthy as we have to put him wide on the right against Cuba. We need to win that game, and by as many goals as possible, and have to go for broke. Hume may not be as good defensively as Berniew but he's better offensively. Failing that I'd even start Peters.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank

I think the main difference was skill level. The US players can all dribble in tight spaces and pass the ball around. Canada didn't string passes together and never really looked threatening. This group of US players have not played together very much.

And you think this Canadian team has? You had most of your star players on the field, we didn't, and even though you were playing at home and have far more depth than we do you needed a fluky own goal and a late goal on the counter against 10 men from a player who shouldn't have been on the field to beat our B team. Not an overly impressive performance by the Yanks by any stretch. Lucky for your team we didn't have our shooting boots on straight this game.

[sj]

were was the offense?

we had our first shot in on goal in the 60th mins.

the difference in the buildup was mens against boys

the US players has a much better passing ability controlable and well weighted ours was rough and not too easy to control

zero goals in two games.

Cuba is not going to be that easy

they gave the US a run for their money until they colapsed 3 mins before injury time after having played 40 mins 1 man down.

it does not seems that yallop knows the players ability that well

it did look like a patch up squad and it showed

typical CSA approach.

if it is going to take a Cuba win to get peoples fired I am all for it.

when was the last time we beat a coincacaf opponent in ameaningful game.

May be Pipe should bet his house on a Canadain win on tuesday.

do it Kevan show us how much faith you have in the system you are running.

Its only Cuba no way they can beat Canada twice in a row specially with the high level of preparation our team had before this tournament.

60 mins before we register our first shot on net and you call that a national soccer team.

[BearcatSA]

Your points are well taken, Gian Luca, regarding going for a bolder formation against the Cubans. Can't hurt, and it would be nice to see Hutch playing in his regular club role of centre mid.

I was puzzled by the fact that Gerry and Craig were harping about this being a "developmental squad" and then I read on the Impact website that Leduc will be 28 this Xmas: why didn't we bring/play a player like Edgar from the U20s and Newcastle? I don't see too much late blooming from Leduc anytime soon.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by sj

were was the offense?

The offense was committed by Landon Primadonnavan late in the first half. He was only given a yellow unforunately. Had that been a Canadian player doing that to him the Canadian player in question would have been red-carded and suspended for four games.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

I was puzzled by the fact that Gerry and Craig were harping about this being a "developmental squad" and then I read on the Impact website that Leduc will be 28 this Xmas: why didn't we bring/play a player like Edgar from the U20s and Newcastle? I don't see too much late blooming from Leduc anytime soon.

Yeah, he's the exception to the rule and the only player that shouldn't, on the basis of what I've seen in any event, have a part to play in our future.

[Fulham9]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

And you think this Canadian team has? You had most of your star players on the field, we didn't, and even though you were playing at home and have far more depth than we do you needed a fluky own goal and a late goal on the counter against 10 men from a player who shouldn't have been on the field to beat our B team. Not an overly impressive performance by the Yanks by any stretch. Lucky for your team we didn't have our shooting boots on straight this game.

The US was lucky? What game were you watching? Canada had a handful of chances all game. Canada was lucky the US didn't have their "shooting boots" on or the final score would have been 4 or 5 to nil. The US had far more possession than Canada, they created far more chances than Canada, and had far more shots than Canada. They controlled the game and deservedly won. Canada should have no complaints about the scoreline.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Fulham9

The US was lucky? What game were you watching? Canada had a handful of chances all game. Canada was lucky the US didn't have their "shooting boots" on or the final score would have been 4 or 5 to nil. The US had far more possession than Canada, they created far more chances than Canada, and had far more shots than Canada. They controlled the game and deservedly won. Canada should have no complaints about the scoreline.

Canada doesn't have any complaints about the scoreline, other than it flatters the US somewhat. You guys were still lucky - extremely lucky that your best player wasn't red-carded for his off the ball petulant foul in the first half, lucky that we scored on ourselves to give you guys the breakthrough on a fairly innocuous looking play, and lucky that your keeper wasn't red-carded for handling the ball outside his penalty area on a play that was fractionally offside, if it was offside at all - many a linesman would have called it onside. I'd like to see how your team would have fared playing more than half the game with 9 men.

So go away and count your blessings. We expect the US to miss good chances, just like we expect our own players to do that. Its a long standing tradition for both teams.

[strobe_z]

My few cents... first off, what I really like to see is the Canadian team playing themselves out of danger. Anyone remember that sequence in the CR where the ball was ALMOST out for a corner with an attacking player pushing and we actually had the presense of mind to play it between three players to relieve the pressure and move it up field (Brennan and Simpson I think). We had more of that today.

We're also getting better at moving the ball into space in the mid-field, and if DeRo could figure out that he has to stand next to a white shirt before he runs... we could've sprung him a couple of times.

We simply don't have the people to beat a defence with any sort of regularity, but if you think about it, our two teams didn't look THAT different in the midfield.... but all of our attacks fizzled so soon that the USA looked like they were always pressing forward.

This is a HUGE difference than the last time we met them in a Gold Cup. That bunker-style Holger had us play may have gotten us to within a penalty of beating them last time, but all in all I thought we had a less embarrassing outing this time around.

Anyone else want to comment about Donovan being offside on the goal? I just remmeber screaming at Gervais to cover Donovan instead of just running into no man's land like he did.. Still, I can't believe Donovan didn't get a Red card for his antics - THAT's what being a good team will buy us. Serioux yaps his way to a yellow, and Donovan smacks a played in the face after the play no less and gets a yellow. Another example of uneven CONCACAF reffing.

[Gian-Luca]

I didn't think he was offside to be fair. I'll have to watch the tape again. Of course, the little weasely twerp never should have been on the field to score the goal.

Once more though, we were not given the benefit of the doubt at the other end like a striker is supposed to be, which would have resulted in Keller getting sent off for handling the ball outside the area. But what else is new. We don't get the breaks from the officials.

Its a game the US deserved to win, but the way they won was pretty ugly.

[strobe_z]

I didn't think he was offside either... I think Gervais' aimless run played him onside, but I agree he shouldn't have been on after that crap - in fact I think only him, Beasely or Freddy Adu could've gotten away with that face push. ANYone on our team would've been red carded for sure.

As for the scoreline. How many great stops did Sutton have to make? I only really remember one. Sure the USA had a better attack, but we held our shape, didn't bunker down and played ourselves out of trouble. That own goal, and us down to 9 men just when we looked to be pressing a bit really killed things for us I think. I don't think there was that much difference in 2/3 of the pitch.

[Fulham9]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Canada doesn't have any complaints about the scoreline, other than it flatters the US somewhat.

2-0 "flattered" the US? The US controlled the match and created numerous scoring chances. I think 2-0 was a pretty fair reflection of the balance of play.

quote:

You guys were still lucky - extremely lucky that your best player wasn't red-carded for his off the ball petulant foul in the first half, lucky that we scored on ourselves to give you guys the breakthrough on a fairly innocuous looking play, and lucky that your keeper wasn't red-carded for handling the ball outside his penalty area on a play that was fractionally offside, if it was offside at all - many a linesman would have called it onside. I'd like to see how your team would have fared playing more than half the game with 9 men.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts. Come on, man, you're really going off into fantasy now. Donovan shoved a guy who aggressively got up in his face. That's not a straight red. And Keller? You cannot be serious.

quote:

So go away and count your blessings. We expect the US to miss good chances, just like we expect our own players to do that. Its a long standing tradition for both teams.

Luck is a factor in every game of soccer. That's the nature of the sport. There are so few goals that almost every losing team can say, "If we'd just converted our chances and then defended a little better, we could have drawn or won." But in this case, the US was clearly the better team and deservedly won, so I don't think we need to be counting our blessings.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Frank can be faulted for only selecting two centre backs, but Hutch was their in game one because Gervais was injured and game two because McKenna was carded. Given that the third choice is Pizzolitto, I think I'll forgive Frank his choices, as I think Hutchinson did better than Nevio would have. Of course, I am not sure why Reda wasn't selected, espec. since Kluka and Nsaliwa declined.

Reda also declined. He is getting married.

By the way Gordon, I agree with you completely on your player ratings. I thought Grande was our MOTM against CR. Cannot believe he did not start against the US.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Fulham9

2-0 "flattered" the US? The US controlled the match and created numerous scoring chances. I think 2-0 was a pretty fair reflection of the balance of play.

Well you would of course. You're an American soccer supporter. I've seen many of your fellow supporters on bigsoccer claim that your team was unlucky not to be given a penalty at the end of the first half instead of thanking your lucky stars that your best player wasn't tossed out of the game like he deserved to be. That's how biased you guys are. On this side of the border we have a different bias.

quote:

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts. Come on, man, you're really going off into fantasy now. Donovan shoved a guy who aggressively got up in his face. That's not a straight red. And Keller? You cannot be serious.

Oh look, what a surprise. You think what LD did was ok. No, you're not biased at all!

And as for Keller, just ask my name sake that played goal for Italy in Giant Stadium in the 1994 World Cup. He got red-carded for the exact same play, only it wasn't ruled off side. That's just one example off the top of my head. Keepers get carded for handling the ball as the last man outside his area.

quote:

Luck is a factor in every game of soccer. That's the nature of the sport. There are so few goals that almost every losing team can say, "If we'd just converted our chances and then defended a little better, we could have drawn or won." But in this case, the US was clearly the better team and deservedly won, so I don't think we need to be counting our blessings.

The US was the better team & deserved to win. You still had luck on your side. Even Keller admitted as much after the game. Or is your team's philosphy that its okay to miss all your chances because you can always rely on the other team to fluke one in for your cause and have them miss the chances they create?

[Fulham9]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Well you would of course. You're an American soccer supporter. I've seen many of your fellow supporters on bigsoccer claim that your team was unlucky not to be given a penalty at the end of the first half instead of thanking your lucky stars that your best player wasn't tossed out of the game like he deserved to be. That's how biased you guys are. On this side of the border we have a different bias.

The US was the better team & deserved to win. You still had luck on your side. Even Keller admitted as much after the game. Or is your team's philosphy that its okay to miss all your chances because you can always rely on the other team to fluke one in for your cause and have them miss the chances they create?

What are you arguing here? I said that the scoreline was a fair reflection of the balance of play. You said the US was the better team and deserved to win. It seems like we're in agreement here. As to bias: I'm biased. You're biased. We're all biased. Was the US lucky to get an own goal? Yeah, maybe. But, like I said, luck is part of soccer, its a factor in every game, and at the end of the day, it usually balances out. I thought the US play deserved a couple of goals, and at the end of the day, it got them.

quote:

Oh look, what a surprise. You think what LD did was ok. No, you're not biased at all!

Where did I say that? Show me where I said that what LD did was ok? It wasn't OK. He got yellow-carded and rightfully so.

quote:

And as for Keller, just ask my name sake that played goal for Italy in Giant Stadium in the 1994 World Cup. He got red-carded for the exact same play, only it wasn't ruled off side. That's just one example off the top of my head. Keepers get carded for handling the ball as the last man outside his area.

But it was ruled offside! You're talking about some alternative reality here. And are you sure Keller handled the ball outside the area? I didn't tape the match and can't go back and watch it again, but at the time I don't remember thinking that he did.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Fulham9

What are you arguing here? I said that the scoreline was a fair reflection of the balance of play. You said the US was the better team and deserved to win. It seems like we're in agreement here.

Yes, and I said that in other posts as well that the US deserved to win & was better, before you started the argument with me. Its me that should be asking what your argument is.

quote:

Where did I say that? Show me where I said that what LD did was ok? It wasn't OK. He got yellow-carded and rightfully so.

You implied that he was justified because Braz told him to shut up and quit the pathetic diving. However if you agree that deserved to be carded fair enough - but I've seen many and most players get red-carded for what LD did, hence he was lucky to stay on the field. Hence your whole team was lucky, especially as Donovan & DMB seem to be the only guys who can finish on your team.

quote:

But it was ruled offside! You're talking about some alternative reality here. And are you sure Keller handled the ball outside the area? I didn't tape the match and can't go back and watch it again, but at the time I don't remember thinking that he did.

Pretty sure, and even the American guy doing the pbp on big soccer said so. It was ruled offside but its debatable whether it was, but that didn't affect Keller's actions, he came charging out and didn't take any chances. He misjudged where he was on the field and was lucky that the linesman put his flag up. Had he not been, Kasey would have been sent off to play with Mr. Dress-up.

Sorry, you'd probably not get the reference. Anyway, you guys won & deserved to win, and were expected to. Given how it was done, and the embarassing actions of your star player, and the B squad nature of our team I wasn't overly impressed with your team's performance, despite their obvious all-round superior skill.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I couldn't give two jerks about intercontinental relations, and this argument is pretty funny, but I'd like to give the first two teams in our group credit for playing an entertaining style and being generally sporting about it. However, if anyone from the US or CR honestly thinks their respective squads played well or with any demonstrable skill, I only hope their pundits can convince their players of this next time we meet with our full squad in tow.

[SamIAm]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Sorry, you'd probably not get the reference. Anyway, you guys won & deserved to win, and were expected to. Given how it was done, and the embarassing actions of your star player, and the B squad nature of our team I wasn't overly impressed with your team's performance, despite their obvious all-round superior skill.

I agree with you both. But the difference is the USA can play sh$#%y against CONCACAF opponents (other than Mexico) and still get the result, but it's not gonna happen anywhere else. Bruce's job isn't on the line so there is no use for him to take this too seriously. He said himself it's a good opportunity to see what players may be able to contribute next summer. It just doesn't seem like anyone other than the obvious ones want to go to Germany. I'm just glad to see guys getting chances who otherwise wouldn't. But these past two games go down as 2 of the more crappier ones that I have seen us play in a while, but then again it's to be expected.

[Fulham9]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

You implied that he was justified because Braz told him to shut up and quit the pathetic diving. However if you agree that deserved to be carded fair enough - but I've seen many and most players get red-carded for what LD did, hence he was lucky to stay on the field. Hence your whole team was lucky, especially as Donovan & DMB seem to be the only guys who can finish on your team.

I meant that he was provoked, not that he was justified. I don't know what Braz was telling him, and neither do you, but it looked to me that Braz aggressively got up in LD's face and LD gave him a "get the F away from me" shove. Obviously, LD overreacted and properly received a yellow card. But a straigtht red? for a shove? I think a yellow is appropriate for a shove. A punch, an elbow, a deliberate kick; all of those deserve a straight red because there is an intent to cause harm. I don't think that what LD did falls into that category. I could be wrong, though, I'm not a ref.

quote:

Sorry, you'd probably not get the reference. Anyway, you guys won & deserved to win, and were expected to. Given how it was done, and the embarassing actions of your star player, and the B squad nature of our team I wasn't overly impressed with your team's performance, despite their obvious all-round superior skill.

Well, as a US fan, I was actually pretty pleased with the US performance, especially the midfield and defense. I thought the forward play and finishing was lacking. Which was to be expected, given that our best strikers (McBride and Johnson) aren't on the roster.