Vaughan Mayor Wants Soccer Stadium

[Massive Attack]

Mayor wants soccer stadium

Di Biase wants feds, province to come through with grants

May 15, 2005

Lisa Queen, Staff Writer - More from this author

York University's loss could be Vaughan's gain.

At least that's what Mayor Michael Di Biase hopes after hearing plans for a stadium at the university fell through Thursday.

He will lobby the federal and provincial governments to follow through with $35 million in funding to allow a smaller stadium to be built in Vaughan.

If he gets the funding and secures additional private sector investment, Mr. Di Biase promised the stadium would be in place in time for the Canadian Soccer Association's 2007 FIFA world youth championships.

"I'm prepared to get out and hustle and do whatever it takes it do it," he said Thursday afternoon, shortly after the university said it was forced to pull the plug on the project.

Toronto was to host the championships, with games also to be played in Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton, Victoria and Vancouver.

But while the association said pulling the plug on the stadium doesn't jeopardize Canada's ability to host the tournament, it is now looking for one of the other five cities to play host.

At the moment, association president Kevan Pipe has indicated it now looks as if Toronto will be shut out of the event.

When the soccer championship was announced two years ago, it was estimated half the $30 million budget would be spent in the Toronto area.

York University blamed its decision on the Toronto Argonauts football club, which last month bailed on the planned 25,000-seat stadium deal in favour of continuing to play at the Rogers Centre.

While Vaughan can't justify the need for a stadium that large, Mr. Di Biase would like to see a 12,500-seat facility on Martin Grove Road at the site of the headquarters for the Canadian and Ontario soccer associations.

The Argos had pledged $20 million towards the $70 million stadium at the university, with Ottawa committing $27 million and Queen's Park kicking in another $8 million.

If the two levels of government will maintain their $35 million funding commitment, Mr. Di Biase is confident he could secure enough private sector capital to bankroll a Vaughan stadium.

"If we still have $35 million from the two governments, I'm prepared to go out and get some private investment."

Back when Toronto mounted its failed attempt for the 2008 Olympics, the Martin Grove site was slated for a 15,000-seat soccer stadium, one of three that would have been built in the Greater Toronto Area.

At that time, the price tag was about $35 to $40 million, Mr. Di Biase said.

He's not sure what the cost for a 12,500-seat stadium would be today.

After the Argos pulled out of the stadium plans, the university and soccer association discussed building a 20,000-seat stadium for $50 million but York ultimately concluded it was not feasible.

http://www.yorkregion.com/yr/newscentre/vaughancitizen/story/2781599p-3219910c.html

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Found this in my local paper. Just yesterday I ripped this site saying it couldn't handle a large capacity of people. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Interesting, but I don't think the CSA will view it as feasible. Too much politics. Simply too many questions with precious little time.

Hamilton is the way to go, assuming Ivor Wynne can be used as a viable (international matches) soccer stadium in the future.

[Joe Keeper]

This all sounds great, but my problem would be with capacity... While Vaughn isnt far from TO, their stadium was also meant to house internationals and potentially MLS.

However, if the stadium could be built with the ability to expand the capacity, it might be feasable.

[Metro]

quote:Originally posted by Joe Keeper

This all sounds great, but my problem would be with capacity... While Vaughn isnt far from TO, their stadium was also meant to house internationals and potentially MLS.

However, if the stadium could be built with the ability to expand the capacity, it might be feasable.

The MLS would be out of the question, but it could still host internationals; if Swangard and Richardson (Kingston) can host them so can this one as well. Of course, this is all just talk for now. I don't this type of news can get local soccer fans excited anymore, until construction actually begins.

[RealGooner]

Well its good that there is still some interest in getting a stadium, but transportation links to the Vaughan site are even worse than the ones at York. Its possible to take transit from Mississauga to York U, but getting to Vaughan from there and many parts of Toronto will be a nightmare by transit, and a long slog by car. The capacity of 12000 would be too small for either FIFA or MLS, both of whom require 20,000 seats.

[Bxl Boy]

You *** with your MLS !

Someone proposes a stadium and you seem yo say "yes, only if it fits for MLS"

Some of you seem to prefer no stadium at all and no 2007 in Toronto than no MLS !

Freaking !

I read the article in diagonal and I like the idea... Not necessarly Vaughan but those guys seem to be the first ones to have understood what is necessary

But, some questions :

- Where is Vaughan in comparison of Toronto

- Is it easy of access (road and public transportation) or as lost as Etobicoke ?

If the answers are "near" and "yes", let's build !

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Bxl Boy

- Where is Vaughan in comparison of Toronto

- Is it easy of access (road and public transportation) or as lost as Etobicoke ?

If the answers are "near" and "yes", let's build !

Vaughan, is a municipal area that encompasses what used to be the towns of Maple, Woodbridge, Concorde,Thornhill, Klienberg, Marham ( I think), and a few others that do not come to mind. A good comparaison for Montrealers would be Laval. Only difference is that Vaughan is much newer and constantly growing with new residential and commercial development. If not the fastest, it is among the fastest growing municipalities in canada. It is not part of the municipality of toronto therefore Toronto transit stops at its borders ( Steeles Ave). Basically , Vaughan is anything north or steeles avenue. Problem, as someone else stated, there is no TTC ( toronto transit-subway, bus) that runs in Vaughan.

to answer your question about highways access, that privatized highway # 407 run through vaughan.

[Elaine]

The Soccer Centre which houses Ontario's NTC and OSA is also located in Vaughn.

Actually, I live in Thornhill and we're not technically part of "Vaughn". I believe half of Thornhill is part ot Vaughn while the other half is part of Markham. I live on the Markham side of things.

Vaughn has its own transit (bus) system. There is also access to the 400 and 401 too.

[Massive Attack]

Just to clarify, the location that the mayor is taking about, is the same location as the Ontario Soccer Centre (ie, the place were Canada's U-16 played Scotland a month ago). The location is on Martingrove, between Hwy. 7 and Steeles Ave.

The TTC does run in Vaughan, but you have to pay a seperate fair when you leave Toronto. The City of Vaughan is made up of Woodbridge, Maple, Concord, Kleinburgh and half of Thornhill. Vaughan is also in York Region. Vaughan is bordered by Etobicoke and North York to the south, Brampton and Bolton to the west, King Township to the north and Richmond Hill and Markham to the east. York Region does have its own transit system, called the YRT I guess. They are planning to have some kind of rapid busses on Hwy. 7 soon.

Also, there are a lot of major highways near the proposed site. Hwy 427 is about 5 mins away and Hwy 400 is about 10-15 mins. away (by car).

As for what is actually in Vaughan. Canada's Wonderland, Vaughan Mills Mall(the supposedly 2nd biggest mall in Canada), McMicheal Art Gallery (with a bunch of Group of Seven paintings), the ugly Colussus Movie Theatre, and a bunch of crappy power centres.

[Elaine]

There you go, great run down Massive Attack--my memory does serve re: Thornhill split in half in terms of which municipality it belonged to. And, it's Vaughn not Vaughan!

[RealGooner]

Well despite the mindless hate spewed by BXL Boy I still stand by my contention that "VaugHN" it is too far out of town to be viable. The only way to get to the location is by car, unless you take a very long bus ride involving switching transit systems and paying extra fares and other hassles. And yes, I want to see an MLS team in Toronto, BXL Boy, dont hate on Toronto because MLS isnt interested in your city. Jealously really is a b*tch isn't it? lol

[Metro]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Basically , Vaughan is anything north or steeles avenue.

North of Steeles, west of Hwy 400 (or thereabouts). So, above northwestern Toronto.

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Elaine

There you go, great run down Massive Attack--my memory does serve re: Thornhill split in half in terms of which municipality it belonged to. And, it's Vaughn not Vaughan!

No, its Vaughan. I should know, I've lived here 19 years.

http://www.city.vaughan.on.ca/

[Elaine]

quote:No, its Vaughan.

My bad. Too much Alias on the brain today.

[RealGooner]

VAUGHAN!!!! I knew I had it right. lol

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

Well despite the mindless hate spewed by BXL Boy I still stand by my contention that "VaugHN" it is too far out of town to be viable. The only way to get to the location is by car, unless you take a very long bus ride involving switching transit systems and paying extra fares and other hassles. And yes, I want to see an MLS team in Toronto, BXL Boy, dont hate on Toronto because MLS isnt interested in your city. Jealously really is a b*tch isn't it? lol

As much as I lamented the location as not being able to handle a large capacity of people, I don't buy the arguement that a place is "too far out of town to be viable". If people really want to do something, they'll do it, as long as its located reasonably close.

When the White Stripes played their concert at the Hershey Centre in Mississauga, I didn't care where it was located, and I'm sure that the rest of their fans didn't care much either. It's usually downtown snobs that cry about things not being downtown. There have been countless events in the GTA and surrounding area that show that people are willing to leave the downtown if the event is right for them.

Just a few examples:

1. Countless concerts at Hamilton Copps Coliseum that continually sell out.

2. The Edgefest Canada Day concerts that had been playing in Barrie for a good 10 years.

3. The Tragically Hip played at some farm in north Markham in the mid-90's.

4. The Pope's visit.

5. SARSstock

etc.

[Bxl Boy]

Gooner, we won't start again the same debate on MLS

I don't want it here also

I just say that some of you seem prefer no stadium and no soccer at all than "no MLS"

And would reject to have in Toronto a team like the Impact or Whitecaps

MLS or nothing is just stupid, that's my point

And - to Gooner again but also the others - thank you to have explained where is Vaughan. It, like you said, seem to be far and so not the best location...

Hope you'll find one, have a stadium and a team...

And don't insult me like that, I already said I would prefer to see that in Toronto than a semi-final here in Montreal. So... chauvinism is not on my board.

[RealGooner]

I disagree. SARSstock and other events involved events or groups which are in high demand. People will sleep outside overnight to get 'Stones tickets. Soccer is trying to build an fanbase so by building a stadium far out of town the only people who will go are the hardcore soccer fans who will go anywhere. People with a passing interest in soccer, who we want to turn into fans will not bother to make the trek, sorry but that is the truth! The key here is to build on the fanbase by making soccer accessible to casual fans. My ideal site would be Exhibition Place or Downsview Park, both of which are centralised geographically and accessible by transit.

[RealGooner]

BXL Boy, thanks for clarifying this matter, Im glad you are not a chauvinist, neither am I. As regards to the MLS, I support it because without the Argos Toronto probably needs an MLS team in order to make a stadium viable. In Montreal you have a successful team that draws good crowds that support a new stadium. The Lynx can hardly fill their 2200 seater park. I am going to say something now that many people wont want to hear (and is probably one reason why people in other provinces dislike this city and province): Many people in Toronto are no longer excited by competition with other parts of Canada. They want to compete with the biggest and best of the USA. The NHL, NBA and ML Baseball has whetted Toronto's appetite for this type of competition, and theres no going back now. Why is it people are anti-MLS but have no problem with Canadian teams playing in USL????. I want to know why USL is fime for Toronto but not MLS. So if if this soccer stadium is going to get built and you want it to be filled or near filled regularly there had better be a team drawing fans in. The Lynx vs Puerto Rico Islanders will NEVER fill it. Soccer is already a minor sport here so if it is going to be a big draw then you had better bring America's best a la DC United, Freddy Adu, Landon Donovan etc. This is not meant as a slight on the rest of Canada, but rather a deep desire to compete with the the rest of the world. The MLS commissioner himself said he saw a united North American League as the future, and I would love to se Toronto Montreal and Vancouver as Canada's teams.

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

As much as I lamented the location as not being able to handle a large capacity of people, I don't buy the arguement that a place is "too far out of town to be viable". If people really want to do something, they'll do it, as long as its located reasonably close.

When the White Stripes played their concert at the Hershey Centre in Mississauga, I didn't care where it was located, and I'm sure that the rest of their fans didn't care much either. It's usually downtown snobs that cry about things not being downtown. There have been countless events in the GTA and surrounding area that show that people are willing to leave the downtown if the event is right for them.

Just a few examples:

1. Countless concerts at Hamilton Copps Coliseum that continually sell out.

2. The Edgefest Canada Day concerts that had been playing in Barrie for a good 10 years.

3. The Tragically Hip played at some farm in north Markham in the mid-90's.

4. The Pope's visit.

5. SARSstock

etc.

Sure, people would go for the WYC, but not 15-20 times a year for MLS matches. Nevermind the Lynx. I think the location issue is a little overblown, however, it's one more excuse that there is no reason to give people, when there is land available (CNE, Downsview) that makes more sense.

BTW, Copps is downtown...downtown Hamilton. This ain't the sticks like Vaughan or Vaughn or WhoGivesAFghn. []

[Massive Attack]

Elias, I never said it would be good for the MLS. I don't think you have the room to build a stadium big enough for the MLS. But I think a Vaughan stadium could be used for the WYC and the occasional National team game.

My personal favourite place for a stadium has always been Varsity. But thanks to Olivia Chow and her band of NIMBY's, we're stuck with this situation.

[DJT]

Okay, let's not get off topic into the pros and cons of MLS in this thread.

Here's a slightly updated version of the map I made a few years ago that puts the GTA locations into perspective (some of you will probably remember it); the proposed stadium sites listed in blue are those that were announced as being under consideration at the time:

Note that Vaughan is not labelled very well on the map: the dot that is supposed to represent it is really at its eastern border (I guess I should do this over with a better map).

As you can see, the OSA Soccer Centre site being discussed in this thread (#4) isn't really that far from York U (#3). The border between Toronto and Vaughan is Steeles Ave., which isn't labelled on the map but appears as the grey line running east-west that touches the top of the blue dot at #3, so you can see that the OSA Soccer Centre site (#4) is technically only barely outside Toronto.

FYI, SARSstock and the papal mass were held at Downsview (#2).

EDIT: I just noticed that the OSA Soccer Centre should really be listed as an existing stadium now. Yeah, I need to do this map over.

[Bxl Boy]

So we have : Varsity, Lamport, Brockton, Exhibition place and Docklands

Is it totally impossible, with 35 millions, to choose one of these 5 places, and build a decent stadium (even 10,000 seats in a first time, and bigger after) ???

[RealGooner]

Yes BXL Boy it is possible, but sadly local politicians and instituions are sorely lacking in vision.

[DJT]

I guess you're talking about "downtown" locations? Forget Brockton (a small high school field and some stands tucked in the middle of a residential neighbourhood, the entire site is tiny, useful only for the CPSL and amateur leagues (but even they aren't using it anymore; it's probably used only by the high school next to it)). Forget Varsity as well, that won't happen anymore.

If it's going to be a smallish, soccer-only stadium then I think Lamport is the only viable of the "downtown" locations already listed (there might be other locations apart from these, I don't know). I think Exhibition Place would be considered too valuable to give up just for soccer, and I think the entire Docklands area is a mess that requires much more redevelopment beyond a small stadium if you expect anyone to want to visit it (they always want to use it for the Olympics).