Hamilton Spec (old about stadium - don't click)

[Elias]

Hamilton Chasing World Soccer Tournament

By Steve Milton

The Hamilton Spectator

May 13, 2005

Now here's something you don't hear every day: Toronto's loss could very well be Hamilton's gain.

Yesterday, York University killed plans for its new football/soccer stadium, which had already been mortally wounded by the withdrawal of the Toronto Argonauts as a financing partner and major tenant.

That leaves the Canadian Soccer Association is without a Toronto home for the 2007 World Youth Soccer Championships, which will be played at six Canadian sites.

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats and Tourism Hamilton Inc., are actively campaigning to replace Toronto as Edmonton's co-host for the second largest men's event on soccer's international schedule.

And the soccer people are enthused.

"It's been a very confusing and dark day for us," Kevan Pipe, CEO of the CSA told The Spec yesterday. "The only bright spot in the whole day was the call from (Ticat VP of marketing) Christopher Dean.

"Are we interested?

"Darn right we're interested."

The Tiger-Cats - and probably some city and Tourism Hamilton representatives - will meet with CSA officials next week.

"This is in the really, really early stages," Cats' owner Bob Young told The Spec yesterday. "But we're very serious about it."

There was about $35 million in combined federal and provincial government money on the table for the York University project.

Should the Cats and the city - McMaster University may also be involved - be successful as a replacement for Toronto, those government funds might be available to retro-fit Ivor Wynne Stadium for the event, to upgrade certain aspects of the new Mac stadium, or to help build a new stadium.

All three possibilities were to be examined had Hamilton been successful in landing the 2012 Commonwealth Games, which eventually went to New Delhi.

The Federation Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) under-20 men's championships are the second biggest soccer event in the world after the World Cup.

The youth championships are held every two years with teams from 24 nations playing 52 matches. Canadian youth teams tend to be more successful than senior national squads and at the 2003 youth tournament Canada made it to the final eight. July's tournament is in the Netherlands.

When Canada was awarded the tournament, the CSA decided the anchor sites would be Edmonton, with its proven track record as a soccer host, and Toronto, where big-time soccer has never caught hold.

It then sought bids from other Canadian cities to become one of four "satellite" sites - hosts of an undetermined number of games with lesser marquee value. Eleven cities replied with letters of intent, with one of those letters coming from McMaster and Tourism Hamilton.

But by last week, all but four cities had dropped out, so Montreal, Victoria, Ottawa and Vancouver were given the those spots.

Several Quebec cities that had applied instead backed Montreal's bid, which coincided with the announcement of a new $15 million, privately-funded stadium - with half the proceeds put up by Joey Saputo who owns the Montreal Impact and a major indoor soccer facility.

The Hamilton group was one of those that dropped out of the running for those satellite cities. Tourism Hamilton and McMaster combined on a feasibility study that showed it didn't make sense for various reasons, including satellite sites don't know what games they'd get.

But the tournament makes more financial sense - and government investment would be easier to secure - if the city is one of the major hosts. The finals will be in Edmonton but the semis would probably be played in the co-host city.

"Maybe the soccer association needs to keep something in the largest market in Canada, which is southern Ontario," Tourism Hamilton's David Adames said.

There's more than a maybe here.

It's understood that part of FIFA's original attraction to Canada was that Toronto, one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world, was to be a centrepiece. It was no accident the Ticat press release yesterday referred to "the greater GTA" rather than just Hamilton.

"We've always said that one of the legacies we want to come out of this is a permanent playing facility in southern Ontario," Pipe told The Spec. "It's the largest market in the country.

"Could Ivor Wynne, with a new surface - either natural grass or artificial turf without the football markings on it - be that kind of place? Yes. And we'd be looking beyond 2007 at other events."

Montreal, with excellent attendance for the Impact and with the new stadium soon to take root, will make a strong pitch to replace Toronto. Talks have also reopened with Sherbrooke - another city that bowed out in support of Montreal - to become a satellite host.

But Hamilton will argue - and the CSA will listen carefully - that if soccer is to grow beyond its second-tier status in this country, another major tournament cannot be staged in Canada without Ontario.

While there are several stadium options available locally, the only one that really makes sense - at least to this corner - is a serious capital commitment to upgrading Ivor Wynne. That would also include neighbouring Brian Timmis Stadium.

The Ticats are spreading their business wings and are landing such extra-curricular contracts as the CFL's web page and golf's Doral Open. Any business acumen or capital/operating money they contribute would likely be linked to the event being held at their home park.

The Cats had been quietly exploring ties to the World Youth Tournament for months and when York pulled out yesterday, franchise executives went into overdrive.

A co-host stadium for the event needs to be available the first three weeks of July in 2007, which precludes any last-gasp attempt for Toronto to retain the tournament by putting it at Rogers Centre. The dome never has three empty weeks in ball season.

"This," said Adames, "is a real opportunity for this city."

smilton@thespec.com

905-526-3268

******************************

It's funny what a little money can do. Not to beat a dead horse, but if somebody brings 50% of the money to the table, they should have a little more say. Also note, the Ticats waited until after York pulled out, so not to create any competition of any sort, thus not giving aforementioned dead horses any leverage. I think you learn this in Grade 10 "Negotiating Skills".

I think it's a good idea. Right now it looks like a Toronto stadium chances of happening are slim to none. And slim left a few months ago.

I don't understand how McMaster would be involved. Except having their hands out for money as some sort of "practise" facility or whatever bs they come up with since they are building their new stadium. But they did say no a month ago, so the CSA should tell them to go play with themselves.

I think Ivor Wynne would be a pretty good soccer stadium as the seats are almost right on top of the field. And if it means improvements to Brian Timmins stadium as well, one more benefit.

So since this is supposedly the CSA's money, I'm assuming they can spend it anyway they want (on a stadium of course). Unless, you know, the government changes their intentions...

[Guest HamiltonSteelers]

Mac is either still talking about or in the process of building a new 7000 seater to replace the archaic and sad Les Prince Field where the Marauders play football. They had money earmarked for that.

If done right, they could nail them all... new stadium (without permanent markings) that can house the Cats, the Marauders and whatever iteration of soccer the city has by that time (Thunder? Steelers re-incarnate?) and the occasional MNT game. Perhaps overly optimistic... but purely speculative.

[Richard]

Anything but Ivor Wynne - on-field that thing is like a dungeon.

[Gian-Luca]

Why is this thread in this section? Surely this belongs in the main forum.

I had read somewhere else that the Provincial money is gone but the Federal money is still available, but that might not have been accurate. Especially if I read that in the Toronto Star, which hasn't had an accurate article about soccer in Canada this century.

As for this article, I disagree that "big time" soccer has never caught on in Toronto, that's factually incorrect and I don't know where the author got that one from. Its small-time soccer that has never caught on in Toronto. Also, when did Ottawa leave the province of Ontario?

[Cheeta]

Grand idea. And the lads down in the Ti-Cat offices and city hall should be all over this like hair on a gorilla.

Even if they can get a portion of that federal money I'm sure they'd be happy. It's surprising how the fed's are willing to "tweek" infastructure funds for special projects which wouldn't otherwise qualify if they're encouraged a little bit. So maybe there's some real cash to be had for this project.

Great news.

Don't know how they'll make Ivor Wynne work. That'll be tricky given the CFL bench requirments and what not. God, it would be a nice tight field though.

Everyone should note that if Cheeta is okay with this, having inherited a multi-generational East Side hate for all things Tiger-Cats, then surely everyone else can get on board. Make it happen.

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Why is this thread in this section? Surely this belongs in the main forum.

Um, I wasn't sure. This "main forum" you speakth of, are you refering to the Mens CNT&P section? Just wondering.

quote:Originally posted by HamiltonSteelers

Mac is either still talking about or in the process of building a new 7000 seater to replace the archaic and sad Les Prince Field where the Marauders play football. They had money earmarked for that.

If done right, they could nail them all... new stadium (without permanent markings) that can house the Cats, the Marauders and whatever iteration of soccer the city has by that time (Thunder? Steelers re-incarnate?) and the occasional MNT game. Perhaps overly optimistic... but purely speculative.

I thought Mac has already started to build their new stadium. I was under the impression Mac's football team would be playing at Ivor Wynne in 2005 and I believe 2006 until the new stadium is ready.

As for a new stadium, same problems as Toronto, one being time, and two money. So unless Young is going to donate $20-million, I really don't see how a new stadium can be built? Mac is in the same boat as UofT and York, a 7 000 seat stadium more than suits their needs.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Elias

Um, I wasn't sure. This "main forum" you speakth of, are you refering to the Mens CNT&P section? Just wondering.

Yes, I am, obviously. You know, where every other thread on the subject of the 2007 WYC & the stadium that never was is located.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Why is this thread in this section? Surely this belongs in the main forum.

Alright, but it is really that the MNT section has become a "main" section by default. I know some people (myself included) want to go to the MNT section for MNT news, not stadium debates. What we need is another section.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

Alright, but it is really that the MNT section has become a "main" section by default. I know some people (myself included) want to go to the MNT section for MNT news, not stadium debates. What we need is another section.

I proposed to name this new section; "The Beast of Burden Forum," in honour of FC Beast.

[Daniel]

How about "Canadian Soccer News" or something to that effect?

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

How about "Canadian Soccer News" or something to that effect?

I second that.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I second that.

You would.

[canadiankick97]

What about a board dedicated solely to news on the U-20 WC07

[Jason]

I like the sounds of this. Nobody expected the new Ticats ownership would be as successful as it was last season. They did more for Hamilton football in one year than any previous owner could do in decades. Young has the money as well. Could it be a situation where he is hoping that soccer is the means to upgrade/get a new stadium for the Ticats? This would be good for soccer and the CFL.

Jason

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

You would.

And you wouldn't?

[SeanKeay]

How about, "Another Bunk Ass Thread im not gonna click on"

[SeanKeay]

How about, "Another Bunk Ass Thread im not gonna click on"

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay

How about, "Another Bunk Ass Thread im not gonna click on"

I second that.

[]

[Ivan]

I work in Hamilton and would love to see the U20 WC come there, along with the stadium upgrades to suit soccer. However, for the record, I firmly believe we need a stadium in Toronto to house pro soccer (in whatever form) and National Team play.

By the way, the results of the Toronto Sun poll were as follows (numbers approx.):

Do we need a SSS in Toronto?

Yes - 33 %

No - 38 %

Only if privately funded - 29 %

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

I work in Hamilton and would love to see the U20 WC come there, along with the stadium upgrades to suit soccer. However, for the record, I firmly believe we need a stadium in Toronto to house pro soccer (in whatever form) and National Team play.

By the way, the results of the Toronto Sun poll were as follows (numbers approx.):

Do we need a SSS in Toronto?

Yes - 33 %

No - 38 %

Only if privately funded - 29 %

Obviously, these numbers don't support a stadium. Were the numbers to response to this poll low? It's pathetic to see other communities in Ontario trying to jump on the opportunity to get their hands on $35M of government money. Where was their interest before? IMO give the $35 to the Saputo family and built a bigger stadium in Montreal. At least there was a sincere interest in Montreal.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Obviously, these numbers don't support a stadium. Were the numbers to response to this poll low? It's pathetic to see other communities in Ontario trying to jump on the opportunity to get their hands on $35M of government money. Where was their interest before? IMO give the $35 to the Saputo family and built a bigger stadium in Montreal. At least there was a sincere interest in Montreal.

Does TO need a new stadium when the tax payer bailed out the building of the Skydome to the tune of 200 million dollars? Add grass and you have a venue for the U-20. If you can do it Ivor Wynne, built in the 1930's.......

And Montreal is still paying for a stadium built in 1976.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Does TO need a new stadium when the tax payer bailed out the building of the Skydome to the tune of 200 million dollars? Add grass and you have a venue for the U-20. If you can do it Ivor Wynne, built in the 1930's.......

And Montreal is still paying for a stadium built in 1976.

......... and what does that have to do with the price of eggs in Egypt? The Skydome was built for baseball and football. The feds have already committed money as part of a World event.

The Montreal Stadium was built for an Olympic Games and to house baseball and football.

Hopefully, those in charge have learned from those horrific mistakes. As has been demonstrated, caution has already been demonstrated, arguably to the ultra-conservative side.

[Robert]

It's comical, yet at the same time embarrassing to see this desparate Ontario scamble for government funds to build a stadium. The government had promised this money for the construction of a stadium in Toronto, which appears unlikely to happen. Now every mayor of every hick-town in Ontario thinks that this money is available for the applying. "Give us the $35M they say, and we will add a few dollars and upgrade our stadium." Doesn't that play right into the CSA's hand of cards? The government will bail and say, "We only allocated that money for a stadium to be built in Toronto (which they did)." And then Kevan Pipe can once again cry wolf, saying how even the governments have deserted the CSA. Poo hoo hoo. This script is all to predictable. BORING!

[Leafs]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Obviously, these numbers don't support a stadium. Were the numbers to response to this poll low? It's pathetic to see other communities in Ontario trying to jump on the opportunity to get their hands on $35M of government money. Where was their interest before? IMO give the $35 to the Saputo family and built a bigger stadium in Montreal. At least there was a sincere interest in Montreal.

Play your games in the BIG O. The rest of us are sick and tired of sending money to Quebec. Hey is not 1 Billion on a Stadium not enough.

[Leafs]

quote:Originally posted by Robert

Obviously, these numbers don't support a stadium. Were the numbers to response to this poll low? It's pathetic to see other communities in Ontario trying to jump on the opportunity to get their hands on $35M of government money. Where was their interest before? IMO give the $35 to the Saputo family and built a bigger stadium in Montreal. At least there was a sincere interest in Montreal.

Play your games in the BIG O. The rest of us are sick and tired of sending money to Quebec. Hey is not 1 Billion on a Stadium not enough.