Under 20 Qualifying

[The Beaver]

From earlier this year:

"Almost immediately Ryan Gyaki hit the base of the City upright with Lewis wrong-footted."

Sheffield U went down 2 - 0 to Norwich City, but the only bright light for Sheffield seemed to be Gyaki.

[Grizzly]

quote:One could easily interpret it as a disparaging, rhetorical question.

I did indeed really read your post and the sentence I have a problem with is the one above. Maybe someone who is overly sensitive and looking to take offence could easily interpret it as a disparaging, rhetorical question but not a typical reader. Redhat does not state why he is constantly asked this question. I would assume from his post he is a visible minority. I would never ask where a visible minority without an accent is from because they may be born and raised in Canada and understandably offended. If someone has an accent and is obviously from another country I don't see anything wrong with the question as it is only from interest. I don't see absolutely anything wrong with asking the origin of someone's name which is what canso did. He didn't ask where Gyaki was from or question whether he was a Canadian. He simply and clearly asked what the origin of the name was.

I spent 8 years in Germany answering questions about where I was from and the ethnic origin of my name. Sometimes I got tired answering the same questions all the time but I was certainly never offended. I also wasn't offended by the questions about my father being a lumberjack although the lack of originality of the question did iritate me after 8 years of beings asked this several times a week. Nor did it offend me that my Scottish ethnicity was apparently a sign of being a cheap, penny-pinching miser. In fact the only thing that bothers me about this stereotype is that if there is a nationality in the world that is cheaper and more penny-pinching and miserly than the Scots it is the Germans so they should look at themselves first. Is there some truth that the Scots (and Germans) are in general penny pinching? Yes. Am I now going to be called a racist for saying that?

I don't agree with openly racist chanting by soccer fans like occured in Spain and England last week. However, the edgy, intimidating crowd atmosphere seen in Europe is a part of the game and probably my favourite part. If all the fans start being polite and politically correct we will destroy the game. Would it be better if they just put up instructions about when and what to cheer like they do in most North American sporting events? The politically correct lobby is often just as fascist and intolerant as the racists they criticize. I don't think racial slurs should be tolerated on the board. However, I also am sick and tired of the several debates per week we get on small, harmless comments and terms such as whether calling someone a Guat or Rusky is offensive. People should lighten up and not try to find offense in every post in order to complete their mission of having everyone think and write the same way they do.

[redhat]

Nah Grizz, you're not a racist. I actually met you in Kingston (my brother had the

Hannover 96 jersey).

My problem is I can spot a racist angle quite easily. I don't think he knows it is either.

Let me quote him: "What's your background? or What is that, Polish? is a racist question, as it leads to a value judgement based upon ethnicity. In which case we're all racist, 'cause everyone does it, maybe not in Winnpeg, but certainly in Toronto!" So it IS a race angle. I don't think

it is malicious, but I do think he think it's okay.

All I said was Ryan Gyaki's ethnicity is irrelevant in this country. His abilities are what's

relevant. Thank God he's on our team.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I did indeed really read your post and the sentence I have a problem with is the one above. Maybe someone who is overly sensitive and looking to take offence could easily interpret it as a disparaging, rhetorical question but not a typical reader. Redhat does not state why he is constantly asked this question. I would assume from his post he is a visible minority. I would never ask where a visible minority without an accent is from because they may be born and raised in Canada and understandably offended. If someone has an accent and is obviously from another country I don't see anything wrong with the question as it is only from interest. I don't see absolutely anything wrong with asking the origin of someone's name which is what canso did. He didn't ask where Gyaki was from or question whether he was a Canadian. He simply and clearly asked what the origin of the name was.

I spent 8 years in Germany answering questions about where I was from and the ethnic origin of my name. Sometimes I got tired answering the same questions all the time but I was certainly never offended. I also wasn't offended by the questions about my father being a lumberjack although the lack of originality of the question did iritate me after 8 years of beings asked this several times a week. Nor did it offend me that my Scottish ethnicity was apparently a sign of being a cheap, penny-pinching miser. In fact the only thing that bothers me about this stereotype is that if there is a nationality in the world that is cheaper and more penny-pinching and miserly than the Scots it is the Germans so they should look at themselves first. Is there some truth that the Scots (and Germans) are in general penny pinching? Yes. Am I now going to be called a racist for saying that?

I don't agree with openly racist chanting by soccer fans like occured in Spain and England last week. However, the edgy, intimidating crowd atmosphere seen in Europe is a part of the game and probably my favourite part. If all the fans start being polite and politically correct we will destroy the game. Would it be better if they just put up instructions about when and what to cheer like they do in most North American sporting events? The politically correct lobby is often just as fascist and intolerant as the racists they criticize. I don't think racial slurs should be tolerated on the board. However, I also am sick and tired of the several debates per week we get on small, harmless comments and terms such as whether calling someone a Guat or Rusky is offensive. People should lighten up and not try to find offense in every post in order to complete their mission of having everyone think and write the same way they do.

Grizz, buddy, I think you've got me all wrong, but fair enough. My issue isn't with you--though why you are attacking me is perplexing (not to mention your lack of respect for our national rodent). As RedHat points out, the issue of race WAS indeed present in the one post (see RedHat above), though the degree of maliciousness is impossible to assess.

Let's leave it there, shall we? I get the impression that you and I are not far off in our thoughts on this issue.

[canso]

Sheesh, where's the "I'm rolling my eyes" smiley when you need one?

Amidst all the debate, I got the answers I was looking for: who is Ryan Gyaki, what does he look like, how does he play and how do you pronounce his name? Great! Hoping to see him play for Canada real soon, and I'll be the first to cheer his somewhat unusual name when he makes a great play!

Man, just goes to show what kind of politically correct bull**** you gotta wade through in this country to get anything done!

How can you expect to build any kind of solidarity within a multi-cultural nation of immigrants, if you set off a **** storm every time you ask "Where you from?" or "Gee, that's a unique name, what kind of name is that?"

Unclench your sphincters people, I only asked because I want to know! How can I get excited about these upcoming matches if I don't know anything about these players? Race matters most for visuals, less for style, but it matters when you're trying to put a team together in your head.

...but still, if I could phonetically spell out the sound my cat makes when spitting out a hairball I would spell it Gyaki!

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by canso

...but still, if I could phonetically spell out the sound my cat makes when spitting out a hairball I would spell it Gyaki!

Now, that's just insensitive.

*ducks and runs*

[Grizzly]

I am not attacking you or anyone else, Beaver. I am attacking the idea that asking what the origin of someone's name is is racist. I don't think that it is racist to ask what someone's race is either. Everyone has a race and it is part of everyone's identity. I like to know if a player is white, black or Asian just as I am interested in knowing if they are from Vancouver or Halifax, short or tall, speak english or french etc. This is a part of their identity and allows me to know what type of person they are and identify them on the field. I don't think any less of a player or think they are less Canadian than me nor apply any racist stereotypes to them. I think a poster should feel able to ask what the ethnic background of a player or name is without being accused of racism. If they were afterwards to say something like, "Damn Chink, there are too many of them in Canada" that would be racist and should be censured. Asking out of curiosity should not be. Anti-racism doesn't mean denying that races exist. This board should lighten up and concern itself with real incidences of racist posts not trivial comments that offend the over-sensitive. It has been my experience that we have had far fewer racist posts on this board than overbearing, self-righteous, politically correct posts. I guess we should get back on topic or start another thread on this issue.

P.S. The reference to your nick Beaver was a sarcastic comment on how things can be interpreted in different ways and that we shouldn't be looking for interpretations that were not originally intended. redhat due to my faulty memory, the only one I remember meeting in Kingston with a Hannover jersey was DeGuzman's father. Maybe some more information will refresh my memory about meeting you.

[canso]

One of the reasons I like soccer more than any other sport is that, unlike hockey or football, you can actually see the player's faces. They can express their individuality and I can identify that individuality.

One of the things I like most about Canada is that it is a tossed salad of faces. It's always a pleasant relief when I come back from travelling and recognize just how visually boring the rest of the ethnically homogenous world is and how lucky I am to have such a variety of peoples in one place living in relative harmony.

Combine the two and you've got Canadian soccer. It's a happy sight to my eyes to run down the MNT roster and see that diversity represented: a shaven headed Italian from Montreal; a Guyanese vegan with cornrows; an Hispanic with an afro; a lanky African with stern, serious features belying his age: a red cheeked Scot; etc. When I watch the MNT play, I look at how they blend together (tactics and selection aside, don't get me started on that topic) and am immensely proud that they represent my country.

The way to deal with racism is not to pretend that race desn't matter, but to admit that it does and to talk about it openly, even to the point of making jokes about each other.

I cannot relate to the people I meet without finding out where they're from. Those who don't ask, or don't like being asked, don't actually want to relate to people from different races.

Think quick and tell me who the racist is.

[canso]

One of the reasons I like soccer more than any other sport is that, unlike hockey or football, you can actually see the player's faces. They can express their individuality and I can identify that individuality.

One of the things I like most about Canada is that it is a tossed salad of faces. It's always a pleasant relief when I come back from travelling and recognize just how visually boring the rest of the ethnically homogenous world is and how lucky I am to have such a variety of peoples in one place living in relative harmony.

Combine the two and you've got Canadian soccer. It's a happy sight to my eyes to run down the MNT roster and see that diversity represented: a shaven headed Italian from Montreal; a Guyanese vegan with cornrows; an Hispanic with an afro; a lanky African with stern, serious features belying his age: a red cheeked Scot; etc. When I watch the MNT play, I look at how they blend together (tactics and selection aside, don't get me started on that topic) and am immensely proud that they represent my country.

The way to deal with racism is not to pretend that race desn't matter, but to admit that it does and to talk about it openly, even to the point of making jokes about each other.

I cannot relate to the people I meet without finding out where they're from. Those who don't ask, or don't like being asked, don't actually want to relate to people from different races.

Think quick and tell me who the racist is.

[The Beaver]

Grizz--fair enough--though when you say:

"The reference to your nick Beaver was a sarcastic comment on how things can be interpreted in different ways and that we shouldn't be looking for interpretations that were not originally intended"

I must point out the fact that it is also the responsibility of the individual making comments to express them clearly OTHERWISE alternative or wrong interpretations will be made. This was my entire freakin point--canso, intentionally or not (we cannot tell, can we?) phrased his question in a way that left it open for interpretation. Yes, we cannot control every aspect of how we are interpreted, but considerable responsibity still lies with the author of such opinions. This is a broader issue, and a more complicated one, than this forum is willing to suffer, so I'll leave it at that. I, for one, just wanted to be sure that my expressions and intent were being properly understood.

Next game that you and Canso and I attend, I'll buy you both a beer!! We're all good now, right? [^]

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Next game that you and Canso and I attend, I'll buy you both a beer!! We're all good now, right? [^]

Boy, Beav, you gonna have to get a second job to pay for all those beers you owe, and some stickers to remind you of who ya owe them to!

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Boy, Beav, you gonna have to get a second job to pay for all those beers you owe, and some stickers to remind you of who ya owe them to! :D"

_______________________________________________

Beaches--where do you find this stuff? Very cool! Yes, I forgot to mention the other Beaver in an earlier post, but I was flabergasted to learn that some people use my name when referring to female genitals. Very odd.

I already have too many jobs--good news is I can afford the beer. Hell, now I'll buy one for you, too. Next game at Commonwealth or Swangard--I owe you.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

I already have too many jobs--good news is I can afford the beer. Hell, now I'll buy one for you, too. Next game at Commonwealth or Swangard--I owe you.

Is there somewhere we can form a line for Beaver to buy us a beer?

Not saying that I deserve one, just trying to get in on the action.

[Grizzly]

Thanks Beaver. I am always in favour of people buying me beer! I would encourage all other Voyageurs to volunteer for this extremely worthwhile cause.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by canso

The way to deal with racism is not to pretend that race desn't matter, but to admit that it does and to talk about it openly, even to the point of making jokes about each other.

Think quick and tell me who the racist is.

Canso I respectfully cannot accept your definition and it is fine

for you. Like I said before, you do not appear to be aware of what

you do nor care if it bothers people like me (who get it all the time). But we just have to agree to disagree.

You want to talk about race? Get to know the person FIRST!

This way it's the character that primary rather than skin colour.

All people I've met know me by my name and not my ethnicity.

Likewise name a Canadian player, say Tam Nsaliwa or Dwayne de Rosario, and I'll visualize his face on a Canadian jersey. If I were to describe him it would be: a very talented and tireless striker

who plays for San Jose and wears dreadlocks. Not once would I

even care where his family "originally" came from.

As for who the racist is ... let ME tell you. It's usually the

person I may meet that judges me based on a physical condition,

and claims that they are not racist. You may have some experience

in that regard in your past, it just that in MY SHOES, I'll

deal with it for life.

But hey, why not? I'll buy you all SEVERAL BEERS. Just don't

try to be funny with ethnic jokes, someone may not be ready

for what's next.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

Is there somewhere we can form a line for Beaver to buy us a beer?

Not saying that I deserve one, just trying to get in on the action.

Don't be so hard on yourself--of course you deserve one!

Hey, is anybody keeping track of who I owe beer? Damn,I think I've screwed myself on this one.

[The Beaver]

But hey, why not? I'll buy you all SEVERAL BEERS. Just don't

try to be funny with ethnic jokes, someone may not be ready

for what's next.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

But hey, why not? I'll buy you all SEVERAL BEERS. Just don't

try to be funny with ethnic jokes, someone may not be ready

for what's next.

________

I've got a cunning plan, RedHat. Not that I don't want to take responsibility for all the beer I've committed myself to buy for the lads, but since you've agreed to buy all of us several beers, if I buy you a beer, would you buy beers for everyone I've promised, and then you and I can call it even? I know that makes no sense at all, since you and I were never "uneven," but what the hell, eh?

Damn, we need a game soon! I can't wait to hook up with you guys and start hurling abuse (non-racial, non-sexist) at the opposition...[^]

[youllneverwalkalone]

Today was the first time I'd seen Gyaki play and it hit me that his name is Hungarian. I don't know if that info is actually contained in this thread, but it was the first thing that came up when I searched "Gyaki + Origins."

Anyway, the Blades better give him a first team look, because they'd love him at Ferencvaros.