BrennanFan Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 quote:Originally posted by juaninho I wouldn't think 'Guat' or 'Hondo' would be considered racist, as it's a contraction of the country's name. Think of 'Turks', 'Russkies' (when it was the Soviet Union), 'Brits','Fins' etc, contractions for the sake of brevity that don't really capture any known connotation. If it was negative, then what exactly is a 'guat' of 'hondo' that gives the usage a slanderous taint? I'd ask BrennanFan to give us examples if he can. Would you, in an ordinary everyday setting, address a room full of Guatemalans as 'Guats'. "How are all you Guats doing today?" C'mon it would be totally unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 quote:Originally posted by juaninho I wouldn't think 'Guat' or 'Hondo' would be considered racist, as it's a contraction of the country's name. Think of 'Turks', 'Russkies' (when it was the Soviet Union), 'Brits','Fins' etc, contractions for the sake of brevity that don't really capture any known connotation. Those examples are not all the same. "Turk" and "Finn" are the actual, correct nouns to identify people from those countries (exactly the same as a Canadian is someone from Canada). And as for "Russky", it was definitely intended in a negative way, which is why it has disappeared since the fall of the Soviet Union and end of the Cold War. The American Heritage Dictionary labels it as "offensive": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=russky. I'm with BrennanFan, I don't think terms like "Guat" are appropriate. Another one is "Argie", which I've never seen anyone complain about but I don't like it. There really is no need for these terms except that people are too lazy to figure out what the correct terms are and/or spell them out correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Interesting you mention the "Argie" blast. So many refer to people from Argentina as "Argentinians" when my experience, from having visited my brother who was working in Salta, is they prefer to be called Argentines. Anyone know the truth on this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Andrew W Interesting you mention the "Argie" blast. So many refer to people from Argentina as "Argentinians" when my experience, from having visited my brother who was working in Salta, is they prefer to be called Argentines. Anyone know the truth on this one? I've wondered that myself. When I asked my friend from Argentina, he didn't care either way. Looking it up in dictionaries and references on the Web, not only do both of those appear to be acceptable, but you can also combine the two to get "Argentinean"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 As I think I'm a normal human being with all the pejudices , warts , pimples and flaws a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant can have it's the treatment that those that are doing their job recieve (players , officials , stadium staff etc.)From the soccer hooligans to hockey ( the incident in Montreal this year comes to mind as only an example )Baseball field staff attacked last year,right through to last night's Pistons-Pacers game. Surely those making a living in anyway deserve their work place to be safe and civil behaviour should prevail . I find it strange that a few people would pay the amount these days to see top atheletes and then act like they are on any Main St. when the bars close ! Of course I don't understand how an entertainment event can become so important to some that they lose their sense of reality . A hundred bucks paid out doesn't give us the right to treat those making a living on our consumption of their product with-out basic human dignity. Imagine if we acted like that in a restaurant because the menu was changed or the cashier wasn't performing his or her tasks to our liking in our favourite grocery store. So what gives us the license to treat those involved in a game with less respect than we would show our paper carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whither Canada Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 quote:Originally posted by DJT Those examples are not all the same. "Turk" and "Finn" are the actual, correct nouns to identify people from those countries (exactly the same as a Canadian is someone from Canada). And as for "Russky", it was definitely intended in a negative way, which is why it has disappeared since the fall of the Soviet Union and end of the Cold War. The American Heritage Dictionary labels it as "offensive": http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=russky. I'm with BrennanFan, I don't think terms like "Guat" are appropriate. Another one is "Argie", which I've never seen anyone complain about but I don't like it. There really is no need for these terms except that people are too lazy to figure out what the correct terms are and/or spell them out correctly. Oh please. Do you get offended when foreigners call you a Canuck? I don't. Some people need to lighten up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan Would you, in an ordinary everyday setting, address a room full of Guatemalans as 'Guats'. "How are all you Guats doing today?" C'mon it would be totally unacceptable. No I wouldn't. Would it be 'totally unacceptable?' I don't really think so. However when I'm posting in a Canadian soccer internet message board about the Guatemalan Men's National soccer team (or should I call them la seleccion? so as not to offend?) in a few spare minutes at work I go for brevity. Or at least I did in the one case where I used the shortened form. The good people of Rochester have no trouble with shortening Americans to Amercs. I don't immediately assume the Guatemalans will be fighting angry about Guats. J'ca actually comes from one of the Carribean boards (I think it was the Trinidad and Tobago supperters - I won't call them Trinnies - that used it). From now on I'll try to use more respectful terms on the boards, but believe me if I'm in the stand and Carlos Ruiz is flopping around like a dead fish, I'll call him much, much worse than a Guat. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Yeah I don't think so either Matthew. There's a lot of people that would have no problems with this. Some of the greatest examples are in school. Nicaraguans referring to themselves (and people referring to them)as Nico's. Ukrainians...Uki's. Portuguese as porkchops...etc. And I would have no problem with anyone calling me an Ital, or a WOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 quote:Originally posted by matthew Is calling Guatemalans 'Guats' racist? I'm being serious, because I've done so, just for the sake of brevity and did so with no knowledge that it might be racist. I think I've used Hondo, J'cans too. If there's a racist conotation to that I'll stop immediately, but I don't mean it as a sign of disrespect. cheers, matthew "Guats" is not a racist term it's an abbreviation. Anyone who thinks it's racist is a stupid *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Man you can't even use the word P-u-s-s-y on this board without it being censored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Champ Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Wouldn't we have to take offence at being called canucks, then? I think that is a totally racist slur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Soccer matches are not PC rallies and people get way too upset about terms that are not even offensive. I have never heard any Russian get upset about the term Ruskies nor Germans get upset about Krauts. I have a Guatemalan friend and could call him a Guat to his face without him taking offence. Part of the atmosphere of soccer is to intimidate the other team and its fans. This does go overboard sometimes such as the British fans imitating the bombers bombing Dresden and Hamburg whenever they play in Germany (strange how Britain always makes a big brouhaha over incidents that happen abroad (i.e. Millwall in Hungary) although they are often the worst offenders) and ape imitating for black players. The ape imitating is pretty common throughout Europe and I have heard it in Germany although usually other fans also shouted against those making the chant. There should be some attempt to get rid of such obviously offensive chants but the extreme PC crowd shouldn't be allowed to destroy the soccer match atmosphere either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Man you can't even use the word P-u-s-s-y on this board without it being censored. The plural works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricko Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Does that make it an offence to call someone a Brit or a Limey, an Aussie, a Kiwi? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I don't see the equivalency of indescriminantly and good-naturedly attacking an entire nation (Ticos, Guats, etc.) and singling out members of a team because they're black. Nobody has mentioned the comments directed toward Reyes about Henry. Obviously, there's a greater trend which goes far beyond anything one would see at Swangard. You can't expect much better out of me based on the club I support (I want to mention Paul Ince is my favorite player of all time) and I need to get this off my chest: Croats, Spaniards, Turks, Hungarians and other racist chanters: YOU ARE NOT WHITE! Go watch "The Jerk." That film captures exactly how the WASP world you're trying to impress feels about you. [}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack The plural works just fine. I guess it's only offensive if one is only a singular one then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan Would you, in an ordinary everyday setting, address a room full of Guatemalans as 'Guats'. "How are all you Guats doing today?" C'mon it would be totally unacceptable. If I was the Prime Minister of Canada at the Guatemalan consulate, addressing newly minted Canadians of Guatemalan heritage, no. If i was a Guatemalan talking to another Guatemalan, perhaps i would. If i was a Guatemalan youth, at a party, talking to others of same heritage, then probably. If i was the Guatemalan version of Richard Pryor, telling Guatemalan jokes, then hell yes! I think the acceptance/heresy of an abbreviated country name depends completely on the context it is used to determine the negative/positive intention. You said it yourself about context BrennanFan - 'ordinary setting'. When the use of 'Guat' was made, it was to refer to the team involved in a match, playing soccer, trying to win and qualify for the world cup. It did not extend to 'ordinary setting' conditions, like the entire populace of Guatemala for example nor embody some stereotype/characteristic of Guatemalans, of which i know none. None! I don't think the intention of 'Guat' when used by others on this board was negative. Unless of course Guat was preceeded by a negative term - that I do not agree with. Oh and i apologise about the russky reference. Didn't know it was negative. I just hope that we never have to play Brunei Darussalam! Wouldn't want to offend anyone by calling them the heinous, slanderous, offensive, yet wildly mysterious term of 'Brun-dars'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Cantona Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 To suggest that a limited number of Spanish fans made Monkey sounds is inexcusable...it was more than just a few...it was completely audible on the live feed and to the point that the commentators began apologizing to the audience. One incident does not make a reputation,but the Spanish FA should now take severe action, just as the English FA have done in its fight (excuse the pun) against hooliganism, which STILL is thought of as a wholly English pastime. Do spanish fans want to be known as racists...keep this up and it will stick, just as Turkish fans are now known as Stabbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan Why on earth would one address people in a room by their nationality? I've worked in lots of places where I was the minority white guy and have never felt the need to walk into a room and address anybody by their nationality. In fact some have been Guatemalans, and I've never had the need to say "hey you Guatemalan how it's going". It seems to me that people who are always walking on eggshells trying not to say anything that may racially insult somebody are probably those that have little interaction with other races be it at work or friendships. So those quick to accuse people of racism may want to look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Eric_Cantona To suggest that a limited number of Spanish fans made Monkey sounds is inexcusable...it was more than just a few...it was completely audible on the live feed and to the point that the commentators began apologizing to the audience. One incident does not make a reputation,but the Spanish FA should now take severe action, just as the English FA have done in its fight (excuse the pun) against hooliganism, which STILL is thought of as a wholly English pastime. Do spanish fans want to be known as racists... But hooliganism is different. I don't think severe action should be taken on the Spain NT when all we're talking about is verbal noise. It should have to be physical b4 we even consider penalties such as playing a game behind closed doors. Otherwise how do you draw the line? 100 racist fans is okay, but 1000 results in a severe penalty? or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whither Canada Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Current Champ Wouldn't we have to take offence at being called canucks, then? I think that is a totally racist slur. You're joking, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Yes he's joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Cantona Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 quote:Originally posted by amacpher But hooliganism is different. I don't think severe action should be taken on the Spain NT when all we're talking about is verbal noise. It should have to be physical b4 we even consider penalties such as playing a game behind closed doors. Otherwise how do you draw the line? 100 racist fans is okay, but 1000 results in a severe penalty? or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 So more of the same at the Bernabeu last night in Madrid's game against Leverkusen. A little surprising since I thought people who bring lunch boxes to work to make paper boxes or park cars for a living wouldn't be able to afford a Champions League match. Perhaps they had a lucky evening at the local OTB joint. 'Hail Hitler'? More like 'Hail UEFA Cup' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.