Canada-Guatemala Match Thread [R]

[Chet]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

I can only hope that of the Guats that did show up, that the majority of them were of the American variety, not Canadian.

I suspect the majority of them were of the Guatemalan variety.

Lots of people find themselves having to leave their home countries to make a living. Our soccer team is almost entirely made up of people in that situation. That doesn't mean they stop being Canadian (thank god, or we wouldn't have much of a team).

In the case of Guatemala, a country with few economic opportunities and a history of corruption and dictatorship, many people leave just to survive. They're still Guatemalan. Just as many of the people posting to this site from Spain or the U.S. are still Canadian.

The Guatemalans who come out to support their team are not our problem, it's the Canadians who don't that are our problem.

[kokanne]

There was only about 500 to 800 of them, in my opinion, it just happened that there were about 80 of them right next to the Voyaguers/Southsiders on the TV view. Even from watching the tape, the Guat fans only had there moments when they scored. The Canadian fans were loud and proud the whole game, even when we were down.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by Chet

Our soccer team is almost entirely made up of people in that situation. That doesn't mean they stop being Canadian (thank god, or we wouldn't have much of a team).

quote:

The Guatemalans who come out to support their team are not our problem, it's the Canadians who don't that are our problem.

You mean Canadians like the Guatamalans who came out to support their team?

Which is exactly why I was hoping that they were largely from the States. I understand that emmigration does not necessarilly equal national(ity) rejection. However, in light of your comments about fleeing oppreshion, poverty, and the whole lot, I'd hope these new-Canadians would at least have enough sense to show, at the very least, split-loyalty. American Guats I can deal with. Canadian Guats cheering aganist their adopted nation with such partisanship, frankly, I can't.

[yankiboy]

We have the same situation down here, South of the border. I have had to learn to just get used to it. Here in the US, the women's team is still more popular in many ways than our men's team. Like Canada, we have a heavy immigrant population. Like you guys, our men's teams are still not national priority. Even the Sr Nats are a sports afterthought.

My feelings on this matter are ever evolving but for the time being they are basically:

Cheer for whatever country/team you want. Just don't DISRESPECT the country/team that has given you the opportunity for a better life.

If I were to emigrate to Canada, I would support Canada (which I did consider at one time), except for when Canada and the US played--those are my roots. I would support the US but I wouldn't disrepect Canada because that is where I would be earning my living. Besides, it is just not polite.

I get incredibly frustrated when I go to qualifiers at RFK in Washington and it seems like playing an away game. But you know what? That is the Yanks fault. Our fault. I get more upset with my countrymen than the opposing fans.

The only problems that I do have with some opposing fans is that they want to disrespect me and much more importantly my wife (insulting lewd comments, throwing beer on us) for supporting our team in our own country. Where am I supposed to support my team? The added irony is that in my area, many of the people are not even supposed to be here (they are here ILLEGALLY). I will no longer take my wife to WWC qualifiers here.

Canucks and Yanks need to support our men's teams better. As long as opposing fans behave, I don't much care who they support.

If we buy the tickets then we can do more to control the atmosphere at the stadium. Some cowardly people have a tendency to become more brave when they have numbers....

Support whoever you want just don't be disrespectful of others.

[Lilloco]

Funny story about RFK stadium, now that its been mentioned. I live in Canada, my cousin in the States. I am a die hard Honduran fan and my cousin supports the US (he's third generation). I told him to get us tickets, but when he called and gave his name for seats close to the pitch, he was told that there werent anymore so we had to get them in the upper tear...he wasent happy cause he had to hang with all the Honduran fans and everybody had fun with him. The thing is that apparently the seats close to the field were not all taken, they were just being reserved for people with the "right" last names (i.e. English last names)...needless to say this didnt make my cousin happy, and guess who he's supporting now??? thats right, now he is a bigger Honduran fan than I am!!!

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by DJT

I agree with sstackho. I don't know if you guys checked your tapes but I did the frame-by-frame VCR thing on the second replay and I think it is extremely close.

Yeah, I did the same thing at half time and it only confirmed what I knew originally - it was offside. Maybe you have a lousy pause on your VCR.

[Winnipeg Fury]

I didn't see Guatemala as having a huge home crowd for this match. I think our team and fans were deflated after the early goal and were a bit quiet (normal) but it didn't look like an army of Guatemala supporters. The crowd was clearly Canadian, but were taken out of the match by our poor play.

[Mimglow]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Yeah, I did the same thing at half time and it only confirmed what I knew originally - it was offside. Maybe you have a lousy pause on your VCR.

I'm with DJT on this one. It was too close to make a fuss about it.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

You can see Ruiz on the replay looking back at the linesman to see if he got away with being in an offside position and in true Canadian soccer fashion he did.

Huh?? Just because an attacking player turns to the linesman to find out if he was offside or not, does not imply he was offside. Replays showed that Ruiz was clearly level with the last defender. However, how is Ruiz to know that at the time??

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

I'm with DJT on this one. It was too close to make a fuss about it.

It was close enough that I'm not concerned by the lack of a call. Well taken goal.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by kokanne

Crap, one of the guat fans was chinese, thats how bad it is. I asked him why the crap he was cheering for Guats, and he was like i was born there but my parents are chinese. What kind of crap is that.

Well, if he was born in Guatamala he has every right to support Guatamala ahead of Canada. This notion that just because a country is better off economically and, thus, provided a person with a job that said person suddenly has to forget where he originally came from is completely absurd!

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Which is exactly why I was hoping that they were largely from the States. I understand that emmigration does not necessarilly equal national(ity) rejection. However, in light of your comments about fleeing oppreshion, poverty, and the whole lot, I'd hope these new-Canadians would at least have enough sense to show, at the very least, split-loyalty.

Actually alot of people who flee a 3rd-world country and come to Canada end up being worse-off than similar people who flee a 3rd-world country and go to a different 3rd world country. These might be some of the folks who show disrespect to the country they're now residing. But this is the minority. The majority of Guatamalan supporters at yesterday's match would probably hope that both Canada and Guatamala advance from this group. But Guatamala is their first-pick and rightly so.

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

I dunno it didnt look like they wanted Canada to advance. They were nuts and sportsnet kept on showing them. Were they louder and more colorful than us?? We saw the V's banners but the rest of the crowd had nothing. People DOLLARSTORE !!!!!!!! they have flags. I dont want to be Pro-ONTARIO and I dont want to bad mouth BC. We are all united when the NT plays but in Kingston it seemed like everyone had a flag and it just look great

[kass73]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Without a doubt. This match should be taken as a swift call to all Western elitists to kindly get off their high horse. No one's saying Toronto would be any better. What we are saying is this - the issue of foreign support is not an Eastern problem. It's a Canadian problem.

Best place in the country to guarantee a mostly pro-canadian crowd is St. John's, NL. Tried, tested and true. I was in the stands when we qualified for WC 86 there. Have never yelled as loud in my life at any sports event. Being one of the most remote points int he country has its advantages..we should be using it . True that there isn't a good pitch and the province is mainly poor, but one day they'll make some money off the offshore oil, build a field and we can qualify for the WC again

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

Play in a city like Sudbury. No S. Americans live there or play somewheer further away from the USA Boarder. Also try to play on teh east coast as much as possible, not b/c I live in Ontario its becuase the travel time. We looked very rusty the travel time could have played a factor

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Polish_LYNX_Fan

I dunno it didnt look like they wanted Canada to advance. They were nuts and sportsnet kept on showing them. Were they louder and more colorful than us?? We saw the V's banners but the rest of the crowd had nothing. People DOLLARSTORE !!!!!!!! they have flags.

I agree. I couldn't help but notice the number of people in the crowd (Canadian sections) wearing Barcelona jerseys and the likes. But this is not the fault of the Guatamalan supporters</u>. Ironically, I bet many of those Guatamalans cheer harder for Canada when they're not playing Guatamala, than those who pretended to be cheering for Canada at the stadium last night.

[kass73]

just as an addenda to my post, don't mean to hijack the thread..

i did some quick research and it turns out that the city council in St. John's is redeveloping King George V Field where we qualified for WC 86. The new stadium will have 6040 permanent seats, and improved lighting, dressingroom and medical facilities. I believe there will also be temporary seats available to increase the capacity. The stadium is designed to be capable of holding international matches. Construction will hopefully begin in October, and be finished some time in 2005. Something for CSA to consider for next World Cup. Trust me, I lived in St. John's for 16 years, you won't find many Guatemalans within a 2-3 days drive of there

Sudbury sounds cool too as it would be closer to where I now live.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Polish_LYNX_Fan

Play in a city like Sudbury. No S. Americans live there or play somewheer further away from the USA Boarder. Also try to play on teh east coast as much as possible, not b/c I live in Ontario its becuase the travel time. We looked very rusty the travel time could have played a factor

I know you're half-kidding but Sudbury (or some place like that) is not good. It's too far for the many casual Canadian supporters to travel to, but still in range for the die-hard foreign supporters to get to.

Actually, Saskatchewan would be the place to get the best ratio of Canadian fans vs. foreign fans. It's isolated and almost 100% Canadian.

[Polish_LYNX_Fan]

yeah that would be good as well. Ok I know how it works in Eruopean coutries. For example I'll give u a situation with Poland. their national stadium is in a industrial town. Sort of like a Hamilton, mostly industrial nothin really to see. But anywayz the PZPN (Polish CSA) They assigne a section for teh visiting supporters and give them an "x" amount of tickets. The CSA should do the same this and should have done the same thing for this game. There was a stand on the left side of the field. (right to teh V's section) it was sorta beghind the net. Assign that as the Visiting uspporters section and you have the rest of the stadium for the canadian supporters. Even if the game is played in Toronto or wherver and there visitors section is in place it wont matter coase let say for a stadium of 20.000 u assign 1.000 for visitors your are more than alright !!!

[yankiboy]

quote:Originally posted by Lilloco

Funny story about RFK stadium, now that its been mentioned. I live in Canada, my cousin in the States. I am a die hard Honduran fan and my cousin supports the US (he's third generation). I told him to get us tickets, but when he called and gave his name for seats close to the pitch, he was told that there werent anymore so we had to get them in the upper tear...he wasent happy cause he had to hang with all the Honduran fans and everybody had fun with him. The thing is that apparently the seats close to the field were not all taken, they were just being reserved for people with the "right" last names (i.e. English last names)...needless to say this didnt make my cousin happy, and guess who he's supporting now??? thats right, now he is a bigger Honduran fan than I am!!!

Just to give you another perspective on what took place at that game. When you called to order tickets, you were asked which team you planned on supporting. My wife has never taken my last name. She still uses her maiden names. She is Latina and she ordered lower tier tickets for us. The same went for my coworkers. It was not based on ethnicity it was based on which team you planned to support.

I was at the game. I do not remember seeing any empty seats in what was supposed to be the "so-called" English last name only section. There were actually more catrachos in our section than yanks. It was 75%-25% roughly.

I make no apologies for how the tickets were dispersed because we were in the lower bowl, right in between San Pedro Sula and Tegulcigalpa (surrounded by Hondurans). We really didn't have any problems with anyone until late in the game. That when beer was thrown from the upper by tier by the some of the catrachos. And then there was the dumb Yank that threw a beer at an official. I jumped into his sh*t, quickfast in a hurry. Loser. Of course he told me to F off. But I try not to be consistent. We were losing because we were getting beat. He needed to grow the F up.

It was considered by many here to be very politically incorrect but when the same thing takes place in most parts of the world and in American College Football. Based on teams, not ethnicity. It was not a racial thing. I was portrayed as one, but that was not accurate.

Sincerely sorry about what happened to your cousin. I know that he must have been pissed. The way you explain it was different than my family and coworkers' experience.

Just wanna share that viewpoint. Thanks for sharing.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Huh?? Just because an attacking player turns to the linesman to find out if he was offside or not, does not imply he was offside. Replays showed that Ruiz was clearly level with the last defender. However, how is Ruiz to know that at the time??

How is Ruiz to know that he was level? You've never heard of striker trying to time their run?

And replays don't clearly show him as being level with the last defender. Next you'll be telling me that the linesman at the South Korea-Spain game was also accurate.

It doesn't matter, as we didn't deserve to win the way we played, but anybody who tries to tell me the goal was on-side is just wasting their breath (or in this case, cyber-space).

[Guest Dave]

The greasy little puke was offside. Pure and simple. Bloody biased incompetent CONCACAF officiating.

It's absurd that our guys had to play at 3 AM London time. That's why they looked like crap. The game should have been played at noon at King George Stadium in St. Johns NFLD. That would have been 3:30 PM for our guys, when they are accustomed to playing, but it would have been early morning for those stinking greasy pukes from Guate.

[SABuffalo786]

quote:Originally posted by yankiboy

Here in the US, the women's team is still more popular in many ways than our men's team.

This is only half-true.

Yeah, if you shown the average American pictures of Mia Hamm and Landon Donovan, they probably would recognize Mia Hamm before Landon. But that's just because they're hyped up so much. Women's game attendance is always considerably smaller than the men's, and I gurantee you outside pony tailed little Mia worshipers, there's no solid fanbase for women's soccer. In the American soccer community, the MNT is infinitley more important than any women's team.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

How is Ruiz to know that he was level? You've never heard of striker trying to time their run?

Yes, he tries to time his run. Just like a blind-folded basketball player could TRY to hit a free-throw. Doesn't mean he knows for sure whether he was successful or not.

From Ruiz' position, he's relying on peripheral vision at best. And, OH, even IF he knew he was onside, he'll still look at the linesman's flag because usually they call offsides when there's any doubt whatsoever.

[Dante79]

Now what Canada has to do is win there 2 games at home and win one and tie one away! that will give us 10pts and even with that it might not be enough!~