Grizzly Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 My best friend is Stalteri, the crazy Canadian. We sleep in the same hotel room during road games. When he is pissed off he yells, "F uck F uck". The whole team imitates him. I enjoy hiding bananas in his shoes. Paul I will miss you.... (when he is in Schalke). Mein bester Kumpel ist Paul Stalteri, der verrückte Kanadier. Wir schlafen bei Auswärtsspielen auf einem Zimmer. Wenn er sauer ist, schreit er „****! ****!“ Das imitiert dann immer die ganze Truppe. Ihm lege ich auch gerne Bananen in die Schuhe. Ach, Paul, du wirst mir fehlen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian B. Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Very funny. Nice to see that Stalteri is appreciated from his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Bananas? I'm going to suspect there's some sort of story behind that. Maybe not. But it's fun to speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Ailton should be the same age as Stalteri. Both played at the U20 world cup in Malaysia in 1998. Ailton finished that tournament as the top goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballboy Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 I am soooooo happy for Paully for his accomplishments... ... Correct me if I am wrong but I think he might be the first Canadian to win something (his Die Bunsdaliga championship medal) in a "major" football league in Europe, isn't he? Of course, the term "major" could be open to tons of discussion but fellas, I am sure you all get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polish_LYNX_Fan Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Staltari should stuff CUCUMBERS in his shoes from now on HAHAHAHHAH WHOOOO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05 Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 quote:Originally posted by ballboy I am soooooo happy for Paully for his accomplishments... ... Correct me if I am wrong but I think he might be the first Canadian to win something (his Die Bunsdaliga championship medal) in a "major" football league in Europe, isn't he? Of course, the term "major" could be open to tons of discussion but fellas, I am sure you all get the point. He is if you don't count Whoregreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 We don't like to include Englishman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Ailton is born in 1973 and Stalteri in 1977. quote:Originally posted by Free kick Ailton should be the same age as Stalteri. Both played at the U20 world cup in Malaysia in 1998. Ailton finished that tournament as the top goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje Ailton is born in 1973 and Stalteri in 1977. Interesting, I went back to check the page for that 1997 WYC: http://www.fifa.com/en/comp/tournament.html?comp=WYC&year=2005&year=1997&static=110 and sure enough, it lists the top scorers: Top goalscorers: Adailton (BRA), 10 goals David Trezeguet (FRA), 5 goals Alex (BRA) 4 goals when I first saw that I must havegot confused between Ailton and Adailton. That's where I was commig from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lili Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 quote:Originally posted by ballboy I am soooooo happy for Paully for his accomplishments... ... Correct me if I am wrong but I think he might be the first Canadian to win something (his Die Bunsdaliga championship medal) in a "major" football league in Europe, isn't he? Of course, the term "major" could be open to tons of discussion but fellas, I am sure you all get the point. ..daniel imhof: swiss champion 2000 ..(not that i'd call our league a "major" european football league.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lili Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 quote:Originally posted by ballboy I am soooooo happy for Paully for his accomplishments... ... Correct me if I am wrong but I think he might be the first Canadian to win something (his Die Bunsdaliga championship medal) in a "major" football league in Europe, isn't he? Of course, the term "major" could be open to tons of discussion but fellas, I am sure you all get the point. ..daniel imhof: swiss champion 2000 ..(not that i'd call our league a "major" european football league.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Radzinski won the league in Belgium with Anderlecht. Not sure but maybe it was twice? Mike Klukowski won the Belgian Cup last year with La Louvière. Fernando Aguiar has won the Portugal Cup twice, once with Beira Mar and this year with Benfica. We should not forget that Stalteri won the double this year with Bremen. Think these are the most recent important trophies, winning lower divisions not included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Radzinski won the league in Belgium with Anderlecht. Not sure but maybe it was twice? Mike Klukowski won the Belgian Cup last year with La Louvière. Fernando Aguiar has won the Portugal Cup twice, once with Beira Mar and this year with Benfica. We should not forget that Stalteri won the double this year with Bremen. Think these are the most recent important trophies, winning lower divisions not included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Top 15 European Leagues (According to UEFA) 1. Spain 2. Italy 3. England 4. Germany 5. France 6. Greece 7. Portugal 8. Netherlands 9. Scotland 10. Turkey 11. Belgium 12. Czech Republic 13. Switzerland 14. Ukraine 15. Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think it's a bit like FIFA rankings that list. How the hell can Israel be ranked higher than Russia or the Scandinavian countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Ed I think it's a bit like FIFA rankings that list. How the hell can Israel be ranked higher than Russia or the Scandinavian countries? It is odd, but probably has a lot to do with results in Euro competitions. And I suspect it is accumlated over a longish period. Otherwise I'd agree, lately the Russian teams have done well, and just on the basis of Rosenborg's results Norway would have to be up there. As I suspect the Swiss rating is based on Basel's good run, why wouldn't similar results from Russians and Norwegians be equally determining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I think the ranking is about right with the exception of those countries that have summer leagues. They are quite handicapped in the Euro competitions as they have to play out of season. But otherwise, I think the ranking from what I have seen is pretty fair. Of course, these are always crude instruments and you could argue that for example the 3rd place team in Belgium is probably frequently better quality to the third place side in Scotland but the latter is pulled up in the rankings by the old firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 The league rankings make the FIFA rankings look accurate. For one thing it only compares the top clubs of each league. Thus the numerous leagues in Europe that have a couple of good clubs whose main goal is Euro play and winning the title playing against vastly inferior clubs are well placed. Hence Scotland is in 9th spot almost solely based on the play of Celtic are is the Swiss based on Basel's good run. Any accurate comparison of leagues would have to compare mid table and lower level teams. Particularly ridiculous is that the UEFA Cup results are weighted the same as Champion's League and Intertoto is not rated at all. The rankings are also a self-perpetuating system in that they are used to determine the amount of places each league receives next year. Thus it is pretty hard to move up a lot if you don't have a lot of teams in the first place. Both of the competitions also have a disparity between some of the teams in the first round allowing strong leagues with quite a few teams in the competition to get some easy points against lesser competition in the early rounds. Plus teams with a lot of Champion's League places have an advantage as some teams that get eliminated for this competition then play in UEFA instead of dropping out of the point achieving process entirely. Two teams performing at a mediocre level in UEFA may actually wind up with more points for one league than another that has one team going deep in Champion's League. Another factor is that the Scandanavian and Russian teams are generally out of season when crucial matches are being played and the tournament as a whole is played with teams that are no longer those that won the place. For example, Werder will be playing without Ailton next year although he played a very large part in getting them to the competition. A team that wins the championship one year may have a lot of players out of contract and do poorly in Europe the next year thus hurting its league's rank. I could go on and on about the problems with this ranking system and it is certainly no surprise that such a poor and corrupt organization as UEFA has a ridiculous ranking system. Why do we even have the UEFA Cup anyway? I saw the sense of the Cup Winner's Cup but the current UEFA should be more accurately labelled the Loser's League. Having seen a large number of games of many European leagues both live and on tv I can only say that after the first five spots the list has no relation to reality. My list based on what I have seen would be: 1. Spain 2. England 3. Germany 4. Italy 5. France 6. Russia 7. Turkey 8. Portugal 9. Greece 10. Holland 11. Belgium 12. Scotland 13. Czech Republic 14. Ukraine 15. Austria Here is the UEFA explanation of the procedure: Spain maintain ranking advantage Tuesday, 03 June 2003 The coefficient rankings of UEFA member associations have been published following the end of the 2002/03 season. Spain stay top Spain have retained their place at the top of the table, with Italy moving ahead of England into second since the intermediary standings were issued in January. Seeding system This final version will be used to establish seedings for the participants in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Cup in 2003/04. Individual clubs will be ranked on a points system, that is composed of their own coefficient and half of the association coefficient. The final coefficient table also determines the number of entries per competition for member associations in 2004/05. The access list will be announced at the end of September. Calculation method Performances by clubs in the Champions League, UEFA Cup and UEFA Cup Winners' Cup - results obtained in the UEFA Intertoto Cup do not count - conspire to form the annual UEFA Association Coefficient Rankings table, with the 'oldest' season dropped each time for the purpose of the calculation. Coefficient value The points obtained each season by the clubs representing a national association are first added together, then divided by the combined number of clubs from the said association having taken part in the three UEFA club competitions in question to produce the coefficient value of the national association concerned. Table of coefficients The table of coefficients, which are calculated to the thousandth and not rounded up, is compiled as follows: · a win is worth 2 points (1 point for qualifying-round matches) · a draw is worth 1 point (1/2 point for qualifying-round matches) · a defeat is worth 0 points. Extra points Clubs which reach the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final of the Champions League or UEFA Cup - or reached in the case of the now defunct Cup Winners' Cup - are awarded an extra point for each such round. In addition, one point is awarded for participation in the Champions League. Final decision In the case of equal coefficients, the UEFA Administration will take a final decision, taking into consideration the individual coefficient of the most recent season. Games or competitions decided by penalty kicks do not affect the results of a match and points are only awarded for games which have been played in accordance with the results ratified by UEFA. UEFA Club Competitions Associations' Coefficient Ranking Ass. +/- 98/99 99/00 00/01 01/02 02/03 Total ESP = 10.000 18.571 16.611 14.857 15.500 75.539 ITA = 12.000 12.000 9.812 12.571 15.928 62.311 ENG = 7.437 14.500 14.166 11.571 10.666 58.340 GER = 6.357 11.071 11.062 13.500 9.142 51.132 FRA = 8.642 10.285 9.500 7.125 7.916 43.468 GRE = 6.200 5.416 6.750 11.250 7.166 36.782 POR +2 3.500 5.833 6.125 9.375 10.750 35.583 HOL -1 4.833 6.250 6.083 10.166 6.166 33.498 SCO +3 5.625 5.125 5.625 6.625 7.375 30.375 TUR -2 3.200 7.750 7.750 5.625 4.666 28.991 BEL +3 5.500 3.250 7.000 5.875 6.875 28.500 CZE -1 2.250 8.000 6.000 5.500 6.200 27.950 SUI +3 5.750 4.125 4.375 6.125 5.875 26.250 UKR -1 7.333 5.375 4.000 3.625 4.250 24.583 ISR +3 5.000 3.000 1.833 8.333 5.833 23.999 AUT -1 4.375 3.875 7.750 3.375 4.000 23.375 POL +3 4.000 3.250 3.625 4.125 6.625 21.625 RUS -8 7.000 4.250 3.833 2.333 3.625 21.041 SCG +4 4.166 3.166 4.500 3.166 4.833 19.831 NOR -3 3.800 5.200 4.625 3.250 2.700 19.575 BUL +4 2.833 3.833 3.000 4.833 4.166 18.665 CRO -3 4.875 2.250 4.375 4.375 2.750 18.625 SWE -1 2.375 4.333 4.800 3.833 2.250 17.591 DEN -3 4.125 1.750 3.750 4.500 3.250 17.375 SVK -1 3.333 2.500 3.666 3.500 0.666 13.665 ROM = 2.500 4.833 0.833 2.625 2.166 12.957 HUN = 2.333 3.125 2.666 1.500 3.166 12.790 CYP +1 2.500 2.166 1.000 1.333 3.166 10.165 SLO -1 2.333 3.000 1.833 1.500 0.666 9.332 FIN = 3.000 1.000 1.500 1.375 0.333 7.208 LAT = 1.500 2.500 0.833 0.666 1.166 6.665 MOL +1 0.500 2.000 1.166 1.166 1.000 5.832 GEO -1 1.000 1.500 0.500 1.333 1.333 5.666 BHZ +8 0.500 0.500 0.333 3.000 4.333 LIT +1 0.666 1.333 0.833 0.333 0.833 3.998 ISL -2 0.666 1.000 0.833 0.833 0.166 3.498 MKD +1 0.333 0.666 0.666 0.666 1.166 3.497 BLS -3 0.500 0.000 1.000 0.750 1.166 3.416 IRL -2 0.500 0.333 1.666 0.666 0.166 3.331 MLT -1 0.000 0.666 0.333 1.166 0.833 2.998 ARM +2 0.000 0.333 0.666 0.000 1.166 2.165 WAL -2 0.166 0.500 0.166 1.000 0.333 2.165 LIE +5 0.000 0.000 0.500 0.500 1,.000 2.000 ALB +1 0.333 0.166 0.000 0.666 0.666 1.831 EST -4 0.333 0.000 0.666 0.500 0.166 1.665 NIR -2 0.333 0.166 0.333 0.333 0.333 1.498 LUX +2 0.000 0.166 0.333 0.333 0.500 1.332 FAR -1 0.333 0.166 0.000 0.500 0.166 1.165 AZE -3 0.000 0.333 0.666 0.166 1.165 KZK +2 0.500 0.500 AND -1 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 SMR -1 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 We could add to this a comment about those leagues that have no dominant team, are in fact very equal, and thus have no team to make a show in Europe. The best case here is Sweden, which seems to have two-thirds of its top flight quite balanced but has no team which can make a mark in Europe. In normal circumstances leagues like Switzerland would be the same, as would Denmark. If you take the Eurocup results as an indicator you'd have to admit that Sweden probably has a good player base and more talent than reflected in the UEFA rankings (of course most NT players are on bigger sides not in Sweden). Only it is fairly evenly spread out over its top 6-8 clubs, who will never get a break as they'll always be seeded lower until one comes up with some upsets a la Basel a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Obviously a lot of complicated calculations are involved, but like some of you mentioned - it's based on results more then anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 It may be based on results but it is based on results in a contest in which all participants do not enter on an equal basis and in which no weighting is given to the level of competition being played and one of the most relevant competitions is not included at all. This system would not even be an accurate way of rating club teams let alone the leagues they play in. The core of the problem is that the whole European club championship system is designed to making money and not to determining the best club in Europe. It is quite possible under this system that the current best club in Europe does not play in either competition. If they wanted to find the best club in Europe a simple competition at the end of the year involving all of the Champions would be far more effective but of course this would reduce the number of matches and the profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I think the competitions are pretty fair as is the seeding category as its based on past results. The best clubs generally play in the Champions league as the best clubs qualify year in, year out. Its possible that the "current best club" might not have qualified from the previous year but also highly unlikely. More importantly, as the competitors are taken from the previous years results, you are pretty much guaranteed a pretty accurate measure of the best clubs in Europe. European leagues are not like their "socialist" american counteparts that are based more on entertainment value where the worse teams pick the bests young prospects. They are based on the richest clubs taking the best players every year and therefore, you get very little change in the quality of the clubs year on year. I have been in the UK for 10 years and only two clubs have one the premiership here during that period which just emphasises that point. Could you imagine that kind of dominance in North America. Finally, its simply not pratical for the winners of all the leagues to play at the end of the year otherwise you would have players playing year round. Moreover, I am not sure whether a one game knock out system would be a fairer way to produce the true champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 So you agree that Greece is Europe's sixth best league and Scotland its 9th and that the Israeli league is better than the leagues in Russia, Norway, Poland, Austria and Sweden? I don't think the actual rankings provide very strong support to your argument that this is an accurate and fair system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I'll have to agree that the Greek league is better then the Scottish one - at least competition wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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