Top 10 reasons for Kevan Pipe to go.......

[Moosehead]

Top 10 reasons for Kevan Pipe to go. I realize that he may not have been directly involved with all these decisions but as the COO of the organization some of the responsibility would lie with him. I think it is time for a fresh new face for COO and someone who may have a better chance of raising the profile of the CSA and be able to raise more money for the organization. I think if this was a private sector COO or in a soccer mad country he would have gone a long time ago.

1. On and off again CUSL;

2. On and off again CSA Open Cup that has not been delivered on;

3. Treatment of Hooper;

4. He has been at the helm of the CSA since 1987 for over 16 years and Canada’s senior men are now ranked 87 in the world.

5. Backtracking on real grass and going for Fieldturf in proposed national stadium despite the fact this will severely limit Canada’s senior men from obtaining top class friendlies in the facility.

6. Stating to media that Canada is a shoe in to host part of the 2003 Women’s World Cup in Edmonton to subsequently having to retract this statement.

8. Handling of Hargreaves situation.

9. Being delighted that others have taken over CSA’s stadium plans without the CSA having meaningful partnership and less than ideal soccer friendly facilities.

10.Inadequate support from the Federal Government in 2001 only received approximately 600,000 from Sport Canada.

[Mimglow]

Who shall we go after this week, Johnny? Let's spin the wheel and see!

There's only so much you can do with a shoe-string budget. You want to do Canadian Soccer a favor? Write you MP, demanding the government give more money to the program. Don't kill the messenger.

[Gian-Luca]

What was reason #7 - his un-flattering moustache?

Not jumping on the bandwagon, but I think #4 should have been reason #1, by a long shot. Many of the other reasons are debatable (especially 5 to 10), and I do have to wonder how many people outside of a few Voyageurs truly care about reason #2.

[torontosupport]

#4.

Period.

[torontosupport]

#4.

Period.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

One of the problems, if you can call it that, at the CSA, is that folks are elected by the provincial associations, so that anyone who wants to be in the CSA has to pander to them. This is okay in that you cannot ignore youth and amateur soccer, where hundreds of thousands of young Canadians are playing. But the provincial interests are not necessarily those of the national sides, nor of pro club teams. I think that the lobby is greater on the mass, popular, amateur side than on the elite, professional, national team side.

I agree that writing to MPs and ministers is a good option. I have not done this. But I think that an appropriate letter, if I ever get mine off, will ask how the Canadian government can continue to fund the CSA if they are not able to deliver Canadian fans a men's national team game at home in over 3 years. This is a fraud, as the game at that level, is, in the end, for the fans. And the fans have been ignored, shunned, and defrauded by the laxity of the CSA on this issue. Quite apart from MNT results or ranking.

[Cheeta]

Forget the bandwagon. I'm all for pitchfork and torches.

"Kill the monster!"

[DJT]

A lot of people said that Osieck had to leave because we "needed a change". Why a change at that level but not at the top where it's been the same guys for much longer than Osieck was around? Sure, as Mimglow says, they're on a shoestring budget, but maybe what we need is more original thinking to make better use of that shoestring budget. When it's the same guys year in and year out there probably isn't much original thinking going on. So basically I'm talking about #4 here.

I think there is something valid to #1, #2, #5, #6 and #9 when taken together, namely the fact that the CSA talks a lot about what they're going to do but then have little to show for it.

More on #2, regarding Gian-luca's comment, count me as one the people who strongly cares about this, though I'm not sure how much blame can be put on the CSA and how much should be put on the clubs. But this is a topic for a different section of the forum.

[martin lechelt]

#2.

This would align Canadian soccer with the rest of football world and produce a Canadian champion for international play. This is the simplest (details can be sticky, but concept is simple) way to celebrate existing Canadian soccer and produce the momentum toward an eventual league, better players, etc.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

One of the problems, if you can call it that, at the CSA, is that folks are elected by the provincial associations, so that anyone who wants to be in the CSA has to pander to them. This is okay in that you cannot ignore youth and amateur soccer, where hundreds of thousands of young Canadians are playing. But the provincial interests are not necessarily those of the national sides, nor of pro club teams. I think that the lobby is greater on the mass, popular, amateur side than on the elite, professional, national team side.

I agree that writing to MPs and ministers is a good option. I have not done this. But I think that an appropriate letter, if I ever get mine off, will ask how the Canadian government can continue to fund the CSA if they are not able to deliver Canadian fans a men's national team game at home in over 3 years. This is a fraud, as the game at that level, is, in the end, for the fans. And the fans have been ignored, shunned, and defrauded by the laxity of the CSA on this issue. Quite apart from MNT results or ranking.

I agree wholeheartedly with you. The current structure of power has never had good results in terms of people at the helm. The system of having to go through the politics of Provincial associations is counterproductive. It make the objectives of any person to be a long winding and unpleasant journey. Many times Provincial Associations have their own politics of control my small groups with power. What has Mr. Pipe done for soccer in his 16 years of regime? Nothing that I can remember. Some improvement in the young squads of the men side was started by Osieck, not Pipe. The highly successful women sides was started by Pellerud, not Pipe. Neither Osieck or Pellerud came up from the Provincial Associations. Writing to our MP is not a bad idea, what I would be asking is for the position of headman in the CSA that it be an appointment of a person with true entrepeneural qualifications in sport organization, like those guys that get appointed to run Olympic games, etc.

[Gian-Luca]

It should also be noted that much of the direction of the CSA seems to have to do with the President, rather than the COO. The fact that the CUSL is off-again is because Andy Sharpe didn't really want to have the CSA take more time to go down that path, a path that was his predecessor's baby (Jim Fleming). Also, I have my doubts that it would be a great a coincidence that Holger (who was hired by Fleming & got on well with him) left (one way or another) shortly after Fleming did.

Regarding point#2, I do hear lots of comments from people who are not on this board that it would be great to have a pro-league or MLS in Canada (in fact, earlier this week somebody asked me if they think Toronto will ever get a professional soccer team again - I guess they missed that all-important Lynx announcement about the signing of new cheerleaders while their divisional rivals raid the team for their best players), but I don't think I have ever heard anybody say "Gee, I wish there was an Open Cup". Much of this stems from people not really association a separate cup running alongside a league, as it isn't common with the other pro sports, but that has been my experience. It doesn't mean the lack of the Cup can't be a reason for wanting to see somebody in the CSA turfed, but it wouldn't be on my list of reasons.

[torontosupport]

quote:I do hear lots of comments from people who are not on this board that it would be great to have a pro-league or MLS in Canada (in fact, earlier this week somebody asked me if they think Toronto will ever get a professional soccer team again - I guess they missed that all-important Lynx announcement about the signing of new cheerleaders while their divisional rivals raid the team for their best players)

Like I said, I wonder when Toronto will get a PRO soccer team?

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Regarding point#2, I do hear lots of comments from people who are not on this board that it would be great to have a pro-league or MLS in Canada (in fact, earlier this week somebody asked me if they think Toronto will ever get a professional soccer team again - I guess they missed that all-important Lynx announcement about the signing of new cheerleaders while their divisional rivals raid the team for their best players), but I don't think I have ever heard anybody say "Gee, I wish there was an Open Cup". Much of this stems from people not really association a separate cup running alongside a league, as it isn't common with the other pro sports, but that has been my experience. It doesn't mean the lack of the Cup can't be a reason for wanting to see somebody in the CSA turfed, but it wouldn't be on my list of reasons.

To clarify my view on this (briefly as this is the wrong section to go off on this tangent), it's not necessarily an "open" cup that I want. What I want is an official Canadian championship. A cup, which doesn't even have to be "open" to begin with, just happens to be the easiest way to get it (aside from the format used by the Voyageurs Cup, but that doesn't cut it). People may not be asking for an "open" cup, but I would think that most soccer fans would want a national championship given that every other country has one (while non-fans brought up on North American sports just don't understand the significance of this, so who cares what they say []).

However, as I suggested above, since I think that the clubs themselves are largely to blame for the lack of a cup, I agree that this probably isn't a reason to turf people at the CSA --- though the constant talk by the CSA, including about an "open" cup, followed by few or no actual results is significant to me.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

It should also be noted that much of the direction of the CSA seems to have to do with the President, rather than the COO. The fact that the CUSL is off-again is because Andy Sharpe didn't really want to have the CSA take more time to go down that path, a path that was his predecessor's baby (Jim Fleming). Also, I have my doubts that it would be a great a coincidence that Holger (who was hired by Fleming & got on well with him) left (one way or another) shortly after Fleming did.

Regarding point#2, I do hear lots of comments from people who are not on this board that it would be great to have a pro-league or MLS in Canada (in fact, earlier this week somebody asked me if they think Toronto will ever get a professional soccer team again - I guess they missed that all-important Lynx announcement about the signing of new cheerleaders while their divisional rivals raid the team for their best players), but I don't think I have ever heard anybody say "Gee, I wish there was an Open Cup". Much of this stems from people not really association a separate cup running alongside a league, as it isn't common with the other pro sports, but that has been my experience. It doesn't mean the lack of the Cup can't be a reason for wanting to see somebody in the CSA turfed, but it wouldn't be on my list of reasons.

So true. I had started to type a couple of responses on this topic in both this forum and network 54, but i deleted them since I comfortable with the way it might be interpreted. They were basically along the line of what you alluded to. But I think you put it better.

To reiterate. Pipe is chief operating officer, and as much as I hate to absolve the CSA regarding our current FIFA ranking as so forth, I feel that to often in these forum people tend to go off on a tangent and blasting and firing in all directions without thinking in the bigger picture or thinking if they are hitting the right target.

Point number 4 is about this only one I concur on. I also partially agree on point number 5 regarding the fieldturf but the problem there is that its people who pay the bills who will decide what kind of turf will be used. The CSA is a national assocation not a "for profit" private enterprise. The fault here lies with the LYNX for not having the financial clout to be involved in the project and hence have their say say.

CUSL never existed in the first place and we are better off now then with an all canadian league. How in world could the CSA have anything to do with starting up a league. Private investors do that, not national associations. If that were the the case, don't you think that there would be pro leagues for Volleyball, Handball, Basketball, etc etc....

Ditto about the national open cup. I don't hear anybody, save for a handfull of persons on this forum, clamouring for a national cup. Right now, the primary success to the a-league clubs is winning chmpionship. A secondary measure of success might be getting bragging rights in canada by winning the v-cup. But, even though I wouldn't be opposed to the Idea of a national open cup, I don't see what motivation there would be for the a-league clubs to get involved in a tournament that will mean playing against or lowering themselves to the level of amateur clubs. In fact it would probably tarnish the name of the product that they are trying to sell by lowering themselves to the standards and infrastructures of some of these amateur clubs. In North america, fans make a clear distinction between amateur and professional. Therefore I don't see how this idea would fly with any fans. It might help if the amateur clubs could count on a decent amount of fans support but they don't, nor do they have any brand/name recognition. Even in Europe, fans are ( like North americans) starting to make this distinction between pro and amateur. And that is probably why Opens cups are more and more falling off the the radar screen and not being supported. I think that following what is done in Europe is the principle motivation behind this open cup line of thinking.

I also fail to see what the COO has to do with the treatment or alledged mistreatment of Charmain Hooper. By all accounts the past disputes between Charmaine Hooper and the CSA have everything to do with money and nothing else. More power to her if she can negociate a better deal for for the girls, but what does that have to do with mistreatment. This whinning about more money probably won't end either as it is becomming more and more repetative each time a WWC comes along. Even though, the women are among the best off in the world in terms of financial support.

I also question the point that it was stated to he media that Canada would be a shoe-in to host part of he WWC. My understnding was that the CSA demonstated an interest in hosting part of the WWC and US said no. In other words, they didn't want to share the spotlight. I am not aware of any promises. So whose fault is that? Perhaps a better case could have been made if canada had put forward a bid to host the whole tourny but we don't have the facilities to do so. Therefore we were at the mercy of the US who was able to host the whole event, so they were in a position to say NO.

[Mimglow]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

So true. I had started to type a couple of responses on this topic in both this forum and network 54, but i deleted them since I comfortable with the way it might be interpreted. They were basically along the line of what you alluded to. But I think you put it better.

To reiterate. Pipe is chief operating officer, and as much as I hate to absolve the CSA regarding our current FIFA ranking as so forth, I feel that to often in these forum people tend to go off on a tangent and blasting and firing in all directions without thinking in the bigger picture or thinking if they are hitting the right target.

Point number 4 is about this only one I concur on. I also partially agree on point number 5 regarding the fieldturf but the problem there is that its people who pay the bills who will decide what kind of turf will be used. The CSA is a national assocation not a "for profit" private enterprise. The fault here lies with the LYNX for not having the financial clout to be involved in the project and hence have their say say.

CUSL never existed in the first place and we are better off now then with an all canadian league. How in world could the CSA have anything to do with starting up a league. Private investors do that, not national associations. If that were the the case, don't you think that there would be pro leagues for Volleyball, Handball, Basketball, etc etc....

Ditto about the national open cup. I don't hear anybody, save for a handfull of persons on this forum, clamouring for a national cup. Right now, the primary success to the a-league clubs is winning chmpionship. A secondary measure of success might be getting bragging rights in canada by winning the v-cup. But, even though I wouldn't be opposed to the Idea of a national open cup, I don't see what motivation there would be for the a-league clubs to get involved in a tournament that will mean playing against or lowering themselves to the level of amateur clubs. In fact it would probably tarnish the name of the product that they are trying to sell by lowering themselves to the standards and infrastructures of some of these amateur clubs. In North america, fans make a clear distinction between amateur and professional. Therefore I don't see how this idea would fly with any fans. It might help if the amateur clubs could count on a decent amount of fans support but they don't, nor do they have any brand/name recognition. Even in Europe, fans are ( like North americans) starting to make this distinction between pro and amateur. And that is probably why Opens cups are more and more falling off the the radar screen and not being supported. I think that following what is done in Europe is the principle motivation behind this open cup line of thinking.

I also fail to see what the COO has to do with the treatment or alledged mistreatment of Charmain Hooper. By all accounts the past disputes between Charmaine Hooper and the CSA have everything to do with money and nothing else. More power to her if she can negociate a better deal for for the girls, but what does that have to do with mistreatment. This whinning about more money probably won't end either as it is becomming more and more repetative each time a WWC comes along. Even though, the women are among the best off in the world in terms of financial support.

Good points all around FK. There is only one that I disagree with, and that is the lack of motivation for A-League clubs to get involved in an open cup. Should Canadian clubs get their act together and formulate a sanctionned open cup, they would then be allowed to compete in the Concacaf Champions Cup.

You would then see the a Canadian club playing the best club teams in Concacaf. That would be especially exciting, would stir up interest in non-football circles (media), and would be potentially lucrative (imagine the Edmonton Aviators playing in the World Club Championship in 2005!!)

P.S. I was just challenging your view on incentive for an open cup. I in no way support the view that we don't have an Open Cup because of Kevan Pipe.

[The Ref]

Freekick, you made valid points in defense of the CSA. Surely we tend to get hot under the collar and start shooting every which way when things don't work out, I am guilty of that too. I don't know if you ever had to deal with the CSA on some official business or not, but I can say that it can get very frustrating at times. I just expect more of an organization which is the epitome of soccer in Canada.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

Good points all around FK. There is only one that I disagree with, and that is the lack of motivation for A-League clubs to get involved in an open cup. Should Canadian clubs get their act together and formulate a sanctionned open cup, they would then be allowed to compete in the Concacaf Champions Cup.

You would then see the a Canadian club playing the best club teams in Concacaf. That would be especially exciting, would stir up interest in non-football circles (media), and would be potentially lucrative (imagine the Edmonton Aviators playing in the World Club Championship in 2005!!)

P.S. I was just challenging your view on incentive for an open cup. I in no way support the view that we don't have an Open Cup because of Kevan Pipe.

To clarify my point. Yes, seeing Canadian clubs playing the best club teams in Concacaf is something that I too would like see. Whether or not you need an open cup tourny to enter a team, I don't know. But I still think that the clubs will have the ultimate say on this matter. Why this hasn't yet happended is mystery to me. But I am sure, as you would concure, that its not the CSA who is the stumbling block on this issue.

[Mimglow]

I enthusiastically concur. The onus is on the clubs. If they need a mediator to come in and work out their differences, then they should call upon the CSA.

[drewsome]

The lynching of the sherrif doesn't always get better law enforcement.

Little or no budget has more to do with the current ranking than Kevan Pipe's leadership.

The stadium surface will still be FIFA approved. Field Turf or Grass.

The CUSL is not financially sound from a travel expense point of view.

Hargreaves would have gone anyway.

Be honest, the CSA doesn't have the $$$ to build the stadium so why not have others take the bull by the horns and get it done?

That certainly puts a few holes in the "He has to go" thought process. The guy has done the best he could with what he has in my opinion.