Gatineau CPL Supporter's Group

[Ansem]

 

[KW519]

Would be a nice geographic rivalry with the Fury if it were to happen.

[tyler453]

With a city+metro area population of 332000 it would look like a viable market. Add in Ottawa+metro and thats around 1.3 mil. Can't see the CPL being interested in throwing a team so close to the Fury yet. Maybe when/if D2 comes in.

[Protega]

Fury doesn't draw great crowds as is - the last thing we need is dilution of an already small fan base.

I agree it would be great if it could be supported, but realistically, I don't see it.

[ChrisinOrleans]

11 hours ago, Protega said:

Fury doesn't draw great crowds as is - the last thing we need is dilution of an already small fan base.

I agree it would be great if it could be supported, but realistically, I don't see it.

You're making the assumption that most people in Gatineau support the Fury, or even care about its existence. OSEG didn't exactly endear itself to many Francophones when they first launched: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/redblacks-mufferaw-now-just-another-joe-after-francophone-backlash/article17763432/ 

Gatineau supports les Olympiques over the 67's, and the Senators have consistently failed to draw from the Gatineau market (largely due to distance and culture). The Redblacks do alright in Gatineau, but that's really only because of how many Québécois kids play on the team and how popular football has become in Québec. 

A Gatineau pro team won't dilute Ottawa's attendance. If anything, a rivalry might improve Ottawa's numbers. 

That being said, if Gatineau can make a case for a team, and it kills the Ottawa franchise, well, that's life. 

[Protega]

16 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

You're making the assumption that most people in Gatineau support the Fury, or even care about its existence. OSEG didn't exactly endear itself to many Francophones when they first launched: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/redblacks-mufferaw-now-just-another-joe-after-francophone-backlash/article17763432/ 

Gatineau supports les Olympiques over the 67's, and the Senators have consistently failed to draw from the Gatineau market (largely due to distance and culture). The Redblacks do alright in Gatineau, but that's really only because of how many Québécois kids play on the team and how popular football has become in Québec. 

A Gatineau pro team won't dilute Ottawa's attendance. If anything, a rivalry might improve Ottawa's numbers. 

That being said, if Gatineau can make a case for a team, and it kills the Ottawa franchise, well, that's life. 

I'm actually making the assumption that people in our region (both sides of the river) are apathetic when it comes to pro soccer in general.  It's anyone's guess as far as numbers, but I think the free tickets (or the $5 they now charge them) for kids is probably a significant number and that the actual paid attendance is probably not great.  There's no reason to believe that the Outaouais side would be any more (or less) supportive of a team than the Ottawa side - I think for the sake of ensuring a financially viable team, we can't afford fragmentation.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Protega said:

I'm actually making the assumption that people in our region (both sides of the river) are apathetic when it comes to pro soccer in general. 

They are apathetic to semi-pro or minor league. We really don't know about a Division 1 fully professional league with a CONCACAF berth attached to the trophy, do we?

They responded well to CFL Redblacks who's truly professional, yet, I doubt universities ever got those kind of crowds.

Can't leave out other crucial factors

1 hour ago, Protega said:

It's anyone's guess as far as numbers, but I think the free tickets (or the $5 they now charge them) for kids is probably a significant number and that the actual paid attendance is probably not great.

It's minor leagues, of course they won't pay top dollars for it, yet you can't disregard the strong sense of belonging from francophone to their overall institutions being FRENCH in a sea of Anglophones. That sense of pride is a strong trait in Quebec. Not to be underestimated.

1 hour ago, Protega said:

There's no reason to believe that the Outaouais side would be any more (or less) supportive of a team than the Ottawa side - I think for the sake of ensuring a financially viable team, we can't afford fragmentation.

History. Give Gatineau a CPL club and they will abandon Ottawa in a heartbeat. To your second point, maybe the Fury should try harder to include the francophone to their fanbase. Staying in USL doen't help the Fury's case & situation on their side of the river.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

29 minutes ago, Ansem said:

...We really don't know about a Division 1 fully professional league with a CONCACAF berth attached to the trophy...

Has that second bit been confirmed yet? Unless the format is changing again it seems unlikely that Canada is getting more than one entry out of sixteen in the Champions League. What would the optics look like to the mainstream sports fan of taking that away from the competition that the MLS teams compete in so soon after TFC almost won the competition? The three MLS teams are affiliated to the CSA rather than the USSF in membership terms unlike the Welsh scenario and can't easily be ignored.

[Kent]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Has that second bit been confirmed yet? Unless the format is changing again it seems unlikely that Canada is getting more than one entry out of sixteen in the Champions League. What would the optics look like to the mainstream sports fan of taking that away from the competition that the MLS teams compete in so soon after TFC almost won the competition? The three MLS teams are affiliated to the CSA rather than the USSF in membership terms unlike the Welsh scenario and can't easily be ignored.

No, nothing confirmed on that.

I'm sure there won't be an automatic berth into CONCACAF competitions out of the CPL until Canada gets (at least) a 2nd spot. I hope that will happen right away in the form of a berth into the 2020 CONCACAF League, but I'm wondering if it might have to wait until the 2022 CONCACAF League when that competition will have 5 years under its belt already and we will have a more clear idea (and fully fleshed out Club Indices) of which country deserves to lose a spot in favour of a new spot for Canada. This paragraph is purely speculation/educated guessing on my part though.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Has that second bit been confirmed yet? Unless the format is changing again it seems unlikely that Canada is getting more than one entry out of sixteen in the Champions League.

Eventually

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What would the optics look like to the mainstream sports fan of taking that away from the competition that the MLS teams compete in so soon after TFC almost won the competition?

That's why the CSA's going after a second berth...so they don't have to do that.

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The three MLS teams are affiliated to the CSA rather than the USSF in membership terms unlike the Welsh scenario and can't easily be ignored.

See my second point.

Neither can the CPL owners

 

[Ansem]

Just now, Kent said:

No, nothing confirmed on that.

I'm sure there won't be an automatic berth into CONCACAF competitions out of the CPL until Canada gets (at least) a 2nd spot. I hope that will happen right away in the form of a berth into the 2020 CONCACAF League, but I'm wondering if it might have to wait until the 2022 CONCACAF League when that competition will have 5 years under its belt already and we will have a more clear idea (and fully fleshed out Club Indices) of which country deserves to lose a spot in favour of a new spot for Canada. This paragraph is purely speculation/educated guessing on my part though. 

They can amend it as early as the next CONCACAF meeting.

[Kent]

57 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They can amend it as early as the next CONCACAF meeting.

Sure, of course they can make a decision and award Canada another spot. But my hope is that it will be more than just a decree that Canada gets a spot. I want to see a mechanism for how the spots are gained and lost over time that is based on results rather than a board meeting. The fairest time for that to begin would be in 2022, but I don't think it's a big problem to start it before then if there is the will for that to happen.

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

Sure, of course they can make a decision and award Canada another spot. But my hope is that it will be more than just a decree that Canada gets a spot. I want to see a mechanism for how the spots are gained and lost over time that is based on results rather than a board meeting. The fairest time for that to begin would be in 2022, but I don't think it's a big problem to start it before then if there is the will for that to happen.

Based on past results and the current club index that has Canada higher than any USA spots, it's undeniable that we're overdue for a 2nd berth to CCL. What CSA does with that 2nd berth is irrelevant, our bid will be based on past results and current club index. CPL just strengthen the argument by bringing more clubs.

[ChrisinOrleans]

6 hours ago, Protega said:

I'm actually making the assumption that people in our region (both sides of the river) are apathetic when it comes to pro soccer in general.  It's anyone's guess as far as numbers, but I think the free tickets (or the $5 they now charge them) for kids is probably a significant number and that the actual paid attendance is probably not great.  There's no reason to believe that the Outaouais side would be any more (or less) supportive of a team than the Ottawa side - I think for the sake of ensuring a financially viable team, we can't afford fragmentation.

No, you believe OSEG and the existing ownership cannot afford fragmentation. That's not 'we', that's Anglo-Ottawa businesses. Honestly, having seen the Fury (a lot) I like that the give Francophone kids a shot, but they don't do French videos or interviews, don't bother to have any outreach in our community and have made a few blunders around inclusion in Orléans and Vanier that really irritated a lot of people in the community. If they fail, I am not going to lose sleep over it. They barely consider Vanier a part of their market, let alone Gatineau.

If Gatineau kills them, then the Fury deserved to die. Besides, Ottawa has 900 000 people. Gatineau has 350 000. That's the same as Halifax and Victoria. 

Also, with the wishy-washy attitude Ottawa is taking to CanPL, wouldn't you rather have a team that actually wants to be there in the league instead? 

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

Based on past results and the current club index that has Canada higher than any USA spots, it's undeniable that we're overdue for a 2nd berth to CCL. What CSA does with that 2nd berth is irrelevant, our bid will be based on past results and current club index. CPL just strengthen the argument by bringing more clubs.

I have thought about this stuff a lot, and crunched the numbers a lot. I know where CAN1 sits in terms of club index. Let’s not derail this thread and if you are interested in the subject, head on over to the “Full CONCACAF Club Index” thread and let’s discuss there.

[Zem]

47 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Honestly, having seen the Fury (a lot) I like that the give Francophone kids a shot, but they don't do French videos or interviews,

They literally do:

 

58 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

don't bother to have any outreach in our community and have made a few blunders around inclusion in Orléans and Vanier that really irritated a lot of people in the community.

All of Ottawa's community outreach programmes are things schools and clubs have to request. If they don't, that isn't OSEG's fault.

[Protega]

To be honest, I'm skeptical of the viability of any 300,000 (give or take) market.  I can't see a Gatineau team being viable (unless there is not team in Ottawa).  Same goes for Victoria and Halifax, although I hope they can make a go of it.

At nearly 1 million population, Ottawa could support a team on its own, but I would much prefer that the team has the support of the entire region.  Granted, the Fury could probably do a better job of marketing to both sides.

It's important that the initial markets be viable, because the optics of teams folding early on would be a disaster for the league as a whole.

[Xavier]

Gatineau would actually make sense. Draw both the Ottawa crowd and the rest of Quebec.

 

i remember watching my cousin play soccer for Hull against teams from Ontario and the games alway got insanely dirty/ended in fights and suspensions. Quebec vs Ontario rivalries are much deeper than we think.