Alex D Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 This is a sanctuary for those who want to discuss the league with facts, truth and common sense. Given the recent turmoil of D2 soccer, how does everyone think that will affect the CPL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alex D said: This is a sanctuary for those who want to discuss the league with facts, truth and common sense. Given the recent turmoil of D2 soccer, how does everyone think that will affect the CPL? It really depends how much the investors are going in with their eyes open and how much they understand the North American soccer scene. If they have a pretty good understanding, and are committed to the general plan of a 5-10 year settling out period, then they might see this as something to learn a few lessons from and nothing more. If they are less aware it could really scare them off (actually it could scare them off regardless). But without knowing who these fine folks are or who they might be, it's a complete black box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 And a related question to the above ... What do you think the latest date would be that the league could be announced and still launch by 2018? I'm going to say Canada Day at absolute latest, realizing that this would really be pushing it (in fact they kind of already are imho). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Depends how much work has been done behind the scenes already by the time of launch. If they are ready to start signing players and selling tickets then Canada day would be acceptable. Not sure how much further you could push that though. I'm still trying to figure out how they plan to deal with 5 existing teams in three different leagues that don't seem likely to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 20 hours ago, Alex D said: Depends how much work has been done behind the scenes already by the time of launch. If they are ready to start signing players and selling tickets then Canada day would be acceptable. Not sure how much further you could push that though. I'm still trying to figure out how they plan to deal with 5 existing teams in three different leagues that don't seem likely to join. From what Mont Vic has stated, they seem to be comfortable to coexist with MLS. They've had talks with the Fury and FCE and if you believe what has been reported about those teams, FCE is unlikely to make the jump. Who knows exactly what Ottawa's plan is. However, I find it interesting that he CSA met, sanctioned the Fury for USL, but did not make any announcement about the sanctioning or for how long it would be. However, that certainly fits the pattern of the CSA meeting making decisions and releasing exactly no information. A guy could take that either way ... it has been consistent so they are actually making decisions and simply not telling anyone until they can have a big announcement or there are really no decisions being made so there is nothing to report. I agree that if they are doing work behind the scenes they would have a jump on things. But those are the things that tend to leak out, like making enquiries about venue availability, merchandise, sponsors, vendors, etc. And we haven't even talked about staff. I still have hope that we will see a 2018 launch, but it's getting more and more difficult to sustain that hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Ottawa is the wild card. I don't know how that's going to play out. If they had to pay fees to both exit the NASL and join the USL they must have some commitment to the USL. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 59 minutes ago, Alex D said: Ottawa is the wild card. I don't know how that's going to play out. If they had to pay fees to both exit the NASL and join the USL they must have some commitment to the USL. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Yes true. Interesting that Ottawa has also not confirmed that they are committed to USL for more than one year when asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Alex D said: Ottawa is the wild card. I don't know how that's going to play out. If they had to pay fees to both exit the NASL and join the USL they must have some commitment to the USL. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. BTBB had a really good point that they may have bought FC Montreal's franchise If they bought a franchise one year confident that they could flip it the next year for similar value, and they were planning to leave NASL anyway, it's plausible that they could still be in. If there a bunch of CFL groups that are committed, I am starting to drift back into the camp that the Fury will among them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex D Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Never thought about it that way. Presumably they didn't pay full retail to Montreal so realistically they could flip it at a minimal loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Well this is much more solid and a bit of a relief that something is getting done - https://www.localxpress.ca/local-sports/chris-cochrane-kicking-around-the-idea-of-a-halifax-pro-soccer-franchise-511179 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Being as this is a locked forum here... I feel I can share some stuff we learned at our supporters meeting. The way I took it, was all of them. CFL clubs are working directly with the CSA to ensure that they are sanctioned. So when Mont Vic talks about not knowing all the details, he probably doesn't. But they are heavily involved in the creation of the league, connecting ownership groups and making sure that the league works best for Canada. We might have to wait till 2019, largely because the CSA really wants to start with at least 8 teams. Announcement should probably be in March that the league ownership exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 The whole CFL story continues to worry me. They're a fairly risk-averse group of people who aren't exactly operating on amazing profit margins. If they're not willing to take the financial risk on dropping a team out east, I really find it hard to believe that they'll be willing to eat hefty losses on soccer for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 On 1/14/2017 at 4:51 PM, Alex D said: Given the recent turmoil of D2 soccer, how does everyone think that will affect the CPL? It means that if CPL is operating above USL level, clearly it is above D2 and is therefore D1. What other BBTBisms can we have a crack at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said: Being as this is a locked forum here... I feel I can share some stuff we learned at our supporters meeting. The league is owned by the CFL clubs. The way I took it, was all of them. They are working directly with the CSA to ensure that they are sanctioned. So when Mont Vic talks about not knowing all the details, he probably doesn't. But they are heavily involved in the creation of the league, connecting ownership groups and making sure that the league works best for Canada. They have 6 teams locked. They really want to start with 8. Apparently KW and Halifax are teams 7 and 8. Some CFL teams own clubs in the CPL and some don't. From what we got, 4 teams are on the fringe and with a little help could make the jump. We might have to wait till 2019, largely because the CSA really wants to start with at least 8 teams. Announcement should probably be in March that the league ownership exists. Wait - the 4 teams on the fringe... Are those part of the 6 "locks" or are those the other 4 CFL teams that are weighing their options? So I'm guessing Barry found his partner for KW? Last I'd heard he wanted to split ownership with someone... could one of his Beswick sports contacts the "EPL team interested in investing in CPL?" Also be careful with this info... I contacted the guy who told it to you (through Nathan) and he said he only wanted something very vague about CFL being public. Don't know if he had permission to say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Barry is still looking for an investor. We're the closest for the 6 teams who are not locked. There are 6 teams that want to be a part but are at varying levels of ability to actually get a team. Halifax is in that group from what I gathered. They need that stadium approval, as was said in the interview. They get that and they are in but the road blocks sounded pretty big. KW could potentially fly without an investor, but they want a committed core and financially it would be too problematic. I still go back and forth about how much to believe of all that information. But this is what we heard. Bob Young is spearheading the whole thing of course from an ownership perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Best to play it safe with the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: The whole CFL story continues to worry me. They're a fairly risk-averse group of people who aren't exactly operating on amazing profit margins. If they're not willing to take the financial risk on dropping a team out east, I really find it hard to believe that they'll be willing to eat hefty losses on soccer for a decade. The way I look at it from a CFL perspective is that they have been risk averse for expansion of the CFL partially because it's really hard to do all of this stuff solo. They are really the only Canadian league of significant value. They have been hamstrung by the fact that new teams only get to play in the CFL and have no diversification. It's a similar problem in regards to stadiums. All that said, they have been engaging the right people. Soccer people. They want to do this right. I think what you are seeing is a group of owners recognize an opportunity to get into a sport before it explodes. We can't go and create our own hockey league now. Baseball really isn't a big enough deal in Canada to build something around. Rugby? Same problem. The CFL over-indexes in most of it's markets compared to actually interest in football. That's a big deal. As much as we hear about fans of the NFL/whatever, the CFL actually gets a ton of fans who couldn't give a crap about football and have no plans to encourage their kids to play it. I used to think the CFL was terrible at developing Canadians, but looking at more numbers it's just that Canadians honestly don't care to play. The CFL has invested lots of money in the sport. Soccer is the complete opposite. We have tons of kids playing, tons of parents interested and passionate, and in most markets, little interest in MLS. There is significant business opportunity here. Make the game local, make it appeal.Profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 CENSORED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 So this is where you guys are hiding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ansem said: So this is where you guys are hiding? Get the shirt. Leave the old thread. It has been decided. But this is locked. So keep it private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: The whole CFL story continues to worry me. They're a fairly risk-averse group of people who aren't exactly operating on amazing profit margins. If they're not willing to take the financial risk on dropping a team out east, I really find it hard to believe that they'll be willing to eat hefty losses on soccer for a decade. Some could. I don't doubt that Calgary and Hamilton would stick it out. The Riders are a wildcard, as they are very profitable but community run, same as Winnipeg. Hopefully some have partners (wasn't TNSE supposedly part of the Winnipeg group?). Ottawa has been solid but a little spendthrift. There are a few benefits. Plenty of the CFL owners are old money that have stubbornly kept the league alive with no hope of profit. They also really believe in Canadian sport, and will take that part seriously. Further, I think declining CFL viewership might encourage diversification on their part But you're right, there's lots of question marks with CFL owners. The individuals themselves are encouraging, but the community owned teams are a whole other pile of wax 1. Hamilton/Bob Young - conflicting reports, but was worth 800 million a decade ago 2. Calgary/CSEC - Backed by a half dozen guys each worth 100s of millions 3. Winnipeg/Community ownership 4. Regina/Community ownership 5. Ottawa/OSEG - Biggest back is Jeff's Hunt, worth 100+ million but not super sure 6. BC Lions/David Bradley - unknown, but has handed out 10s of millions in donations to his Alma mater, so he's got something going 7. Alouettes/Wetenhall - unknown, but has previously said that he'll keep the Montreal going regardless of losses, so he's at least got that sort of money 8. Edmonton/Community ownership 9. Argos/Tannenbaum + Bell Last... what the heck happened to the "Toronto based billionaire"? Both Totera and Rollins were pretty confident about that. Unless it's Larry Tannenbaum (which would be a whole can of worms), I'm not seeing how they fit into the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 24 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said: I understand that not all CFL teams are interested in owning teams. But all CFL teams are involved in ownership. Sorry for multiple posts, site won't let me quote multiple people for some reason This, if true, would be interesting to watch. If the Argos own a chunk of it, so do Bell and Tannenbaum, so 2/3 of MLSE ownership already has a CPL stake. That would have to make some sort of impact on how the TFC discussion plays out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: Sorry for multiple posts, site won't let me quote multiple people for some reason This, if true, would be interesting to watch. If the Argos own a chunk of it, so do Bell and Tannenbaum, so 2/3 of MLSE ownership already has a CPL stake. That would have to make some sort of impact on how the TFC discussion plays out I might have misheard this but again. You can own the league but choose not to have a franchise. It does mean they have a stake but that doesn't mean that they feel Toronto is viable with just their money (or they don't want to have a conflict of interest). So they ask Goldhar to come and open up a franchise instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 been told some of my information definitely was misheard... and some of it is wrong.. but some is correct. So much for that rational discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 @Levi Oakey if you are concerned about that info being too public, I would go back and heavily edit it if I were you. It's only a copy-paste or screenshot away from being everywhere. I appreciate the info, and I'm not about to spread it around on social media since you clearly don't want that, but even in a locked forum, it is far from secure (I'm sure you realize that ... just saying). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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