Canada vs Brasil Game thread [R]

[Soccer 19]

I believe that Ian White was supposed to be the coach for the national team and he was actually at the nationals scouting girls. However, there was a huge conflict which resulted in him leaving thereby leaving BR to take on that role. There is a huge pool of players to choose from in the provincial level but you don't necessarily always have the best of the best players in this level. I truly do believe that there are a large number of players that are overlooked. You may say that Miss Morace may not have been involved in this process as much as she should have been but then who was? Who did the scouting and who chose the players in the end? That is where the responsibility lies. Once the team was chosen (and they had at least 3 camp sessions to have a look at players), how were they prepared? What style of soccer was being implemented? Long ball? The best form of soccer to play is one that utilizes all the players on the pitch. That is work the ball through from the defence, through the midfields and up to the strikers. Through balls, overlaps, seeing where your teammates are and supporting them when you are attacking. Isn't possession and moving the ball the whole point of the game? This should have been what was emphasized and therefore should have been what they were looking for. Like I said, size isn't everything. Strength and speed are a factor but if you don't have skill and technique, it really doesn't matter. That is why the Brazilian team 'schooled' our girls because they had that ability to move the ball and keep possession. They weaved through the team using their skills. Remember, the ball has to get through 10 other players before they reach the goalkeeper..........just my opinion

It was Ian Bridge that was the previous coach. There is three sides to very story however the bottom line is the he left and BR become the head coach of the U17 WC squad. He is responsible for the scouting of the sqaud and shaping and molding it. There are major hiden agendas here which ultimately affected the overall big picture and performances of the U17 program and ultimately the further development of the Canadian womens program (which in the world of CDN womens soccer, is the only team that counts).

19

[Trillium]

Selection process is impacted by a broken structure which in a country the size of Canada becomes even more important. If the structure was more organized across the board there would be not only more players to choose from but more teams that are helping to generate elite level players.

The simple example of player quality in a small geo foot print like Euro, Brazil and others .

Um are you saying Brasil is a small geographic country so its easy to scout ?

[CoachRich]

^

No and your memory must be slipping as we have discuss this many times comparing USA to the Europe model and the footprint they are in and how different models work in each case ;-) Yes, distant is a factor but concentration/density is way, way more important. ie:

Metro Toronto - 5,113,149

Metro São Paulo - 19,889,559

Canada - 34,243,000

England - 51,446,000

Germany - 81,750,000

Brazil - 191,000,000

Europe - 830.400,000

[The Ref]

^ since you seem to be good with stats, would you know how many players did BR see to pick his team?

[Trillium]

^

No and your memory must be slipping as we have discuss this many times comparing USA to the Europe model and the footprint they are in and how different models work in each case ;-) Yes, distant is a factor but concentration/density is way, way more important. ie:

Metro Toronto - 5,113,149

Metro São Paulo - 19,889,559

Canada - 34,243,000

England - 51,446,000

Germany - 81,750,000

Brazil - 191,000,000

Europe - 830.400,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_by_population_density.svg

Population density Canada ... 0 to 10 per unit sq

Brasil 0 to 25 per unit sq.

Oh and Canadians tend to live in a small band 150 k wide, Brasil all over the country

Not sure your scouting thoughts work.. what is true is in Brasil the Copa do Brasil for women has mandatory rostering of players who are 14 and up .. so the clubs pick up the best local young

players and ... they get seen on TV and by state officials... so they know who is upcoming.

We dont do that here ... its a failure.

[18 Yards]

Wow!! Never thought of that Trillium, thanks your right...when will we get to the 21 Century??? Why can not the different NTC programs thru out the country have some sort of Satalite feed??? Where the head coach can watch on a weekly basis??? Live practise with ability to record and play back. I mean look at it this way. Every Province holds regional camps that last I believe about 4 months and those coaches pick that team. Then it is off to the Regional play off in front of (in most cases the first time) the provincial coaches and then they pick a squad of 25 to 30 out of a hundred or so players ***STOP**** first section process gone wrong. These provincial coachs take ONE weekend of games to select players.....when a National coach can take up to years to select a group 22 to play for Canada....hmmm not that good at math nor have I ever been hired to enforce qaulity control for Maple Leaf foods...but I would have to say that after a great many of people got sick MLF had to increase thier inspection rate and quality control process.

Provincial coaches should be able to watch (should be part of thier mandate and scope of work) video feeds of weekly regional games and practise, therefore they can see the players day in and out. Then hold the play off select the squad, while across the province the National coach can do the same. It creates an enviroment in which the National coach can not only monitor the player pool nation wide, but also the coaching staff.

Just a thought???

[kj52]

Wow!! Never thought of that Trillium, thanks your right...when will we get to the 21 Century??? Why can not the different NTC programs thru out the country have some sort of Satalite feed??? Where the head coach can watch on a weekly basis??? Live practise with ability to record and play back. I mean look at it this way. Every Province holds regional camps that last I believe about 4 months and those coaches pick that team. Then it is off to the Regional play off in front of (in most cases the first time) the provincial coaches and then they pick a squad of 25 to 30 out of a hundred or so players ***STOP**** first section process gone wrong. These provincial coachs take ONE weekend of games to select players.....when a National coach can take up to years to select a group 22 to play for Canada....hmmm not that good at math nor have I ever been hired to enforce qaulity control for Maple Leaf foods...but I would have to say that after a great many of people got sick MLF had to increase thier inspection rate and quality control process.

Provincial coaches should be able to watch (should be part of thier mandate and scope of work) video feeds of weekly regional games and practise, therefore they can see the players day in and out. Then hold the play off select the squad, while across the province the National coach can do the same. It creates an enviroment in which the National coach can not only monitor the player pool nation wide, but also the coaching staff.

Just a thought???

Sorry 18 Yards - that's original thinking, we can't have that sort of thing in Canada. Here's another radical thought - how about getting the top youth technical people across the country together for a symposium on elite youth development at CSA expense. Or - we could continue on the same downhill path we seem to be stuck on. As long as the CSA executive retains it's power it has to be good - right?

[ThruBall]

Wow!! Never thought of that Trillium, thanks your right...when will we get to the 21 Century??? Why can not the different NTC programs thru out the country have some sort of Satalite feed??? Where the head coach can watch on a weekly basis??? Live practise with ability to record and play back. I mean look at it this way. Every Province holds regional camps that last I believe about 4 months and those coaches pick that team. Then it is off to the Regional play off in front of (in most cases the first time) the provincial coaches and then they pick a squad of 25 to 30 out of a hundred or so players ***STOP**** first section process gone wrong. These provincial coachs take ONE weekend of games to select players.....when a National coach can take up to years to select a group 22 to play for Canada....hmmm not that good at math nor have I ever been hired to enforce qaulity control for Maple Leaf foods...but I would have to say that after a great many of people got sick MLF had to increase thier inspection rate and quality control process.

Provincial coaches should be able to watch (should be part of thier mandate and scope of work) video feeds of weekly regional games and practise, therefore they can see the players day in and out. Then hold the play off select the squad, while across the province the National coach can do the same. It creates an enviroment in which the National coach can not only monitor the player pool nation wide, but also the coaching staff.

Just a thought???

18…Great input. I work in the multi-media communications industry and I can tell you what you are speaking about could be setup with very little investment on top of an existing communications infrastructure that the OSA and other Provincial office locations likely already pay for.

In Ontario OYSL coaches are hiring out from a local service complete game videos of live matches. I’m speaking about U15, U16, U17 girls games. These games are recorded live with a HD digital camera perched on a remote control pod mounted to a portable telescopic pedestal. The reach of the pedestal extends to 50ft in the air. The entire game can be recorded with clarity.

However I’m not an advocate of further investment by the CSA / OSA until they clean up their act in coaching and coaching credential standards. What’s the point of having this material viewed by the current flock of Provincial and NTC coaches? All they are going to see is “Speed”, “Power”, “Strength”. Until their education in soccer approaches the modern game, further $$$ spends are destine for the toilet ala the WNT17 performance; a team well funded but poorly prepared by a junior want-a-bee-look-at-me clown.

[navycyr]

Wow!! Never thought of that Trillium, thanks your right...when will we get to the 21 Century??? Why can not the different NTC programs thru out the country have some sort of Satalite feed??? Where the head coach can watch on a weekly basis??? Live practise with ability to record and play back. I mean look at it this way. Every Province holds regional camps that last I believe about 4 months and those coaches pick that team. Then it is off to the Regional play off in front of (in most cases the first time) the provincial coaches and then they pick a squad of 25 to 30 out of a hundred or so players ***STOP**** first section process gone wrong. These provincial coachs take ONE weekend of games to select players.....when a National coach can take up to years to select a group 22 to play for Canada....hmmm not that good at math nor have I ever been hired to enforce qaulity control for Maple Leaf foods...but I would have to say that after a great many of people got sick MLF had to increase thier inspection rate and quality control process.

Provincial coaches should be able to watch (should be part of thier mandate and scope of work) video feeds of weekly regional games and practise, therefore they can see the players day in and out. Then hold the play off select the squad, while across the province the National coach can do the same. It creates an enviroment in which the National coach can not only monitor the player pool nation wide, but also the coaching staff.

Just a thought???

If a professionnal hockey club club like the Montreal Canadians have decided to rely more on videotaping to make their scouting for the annual entry draft because they consider it more efficient and less costly, why CSA wouldn't finally get to the 21st century and do the same ? Especially that technology is there and affordable and that we have limited amount of money available. Great idea 18 Yards ! Also very positive since many people (including myself) are a lot faster to criticize than finding truly innovative solutions. Firing everyone like some suggest not being a solution. But there are certainly rotten apples at the CSA. Someone in charge has just to identify the worst one and get rid of it. It will send a message across the board mediocrity won't be tolerated anymore. You don't see any significant result, you fire the next person that is the more harmfull to your organization. Over the years I have worked as a manager, it proved a very efficient method. Be cautious however to identify the person that shows the more evidently the type of behaviour you want to eradicate, because you might send a wrong message and not obtain the results you were expecting. All organizations I have been part of that have fired a significant number of person at the same time, have without exception found themselves in worst problems than their previous situation because you have to rebuild from scratch with people not fully aware of all the elements they need to know to make an educated decision. for those who think firing everybody will solve problems, I can assure you form my manager experience, things will only go worse ! You would be better off trying to propose innovative solutions like 18 Yards !!!

[just my opinion]

Lol, thanks for the correction Soccer 19. You are right, his name is Ian Bridge...my bad You are also correct in saying that there is 3 sides to every story. Since I don't know any of the details as to why he left, I don't even care to guess, that is why I never mentioned anything. I do know that there was a conflict and he was gone. As for the satellite feeds that was mentioned, I do happen to know that in the provincial program here in Ontario, when there are girls that are selected from London, Burlington or wherever they are, to be on the provincial team, they cannot always come down to the OSA for practice on a regular basis, especially in the winter months or during the school week. Therefore, they do practice in their own city and it is done via satellite. They are expected to come down to practice with the team every other week or weekend. Now I don't know what the process is or what is the expectation of the coach to monitor them. They probably rely on the report from the coach designated to coach them in their own city. But whatever system they have, it is not good enough because it clearly isn't working.

I do believe Coach Rich has a point when he said that girls should have the ball skills and techniques by the time they are looked at at the provincial and national level. I totally agree with you there. Satellite feeds can be a good method of scouting but if the person who is doing the scouting has one certain mindset as to what HE wants, all the satellite feeds in the world won't change his choices. He will choose who he wants regardless of this.

There should be a set of guidelines adhered to throughout the provincial and national level as to what skills ARE A MUST if a player is even considered for at this level. These skills must be demonstrated throughout the beginning of the selection process. Once that basis is established, then you can build up the team tactically while continuing to improve the technical skills, agility, strength and conditioning of the players. If you use the satellite feeds for players far away, then these strict guidelines and performance criterias must be adhered to. If they fail to maintain any of these expectations, then the spot is opened up to another player. Some people may call this method cruel and unjust and that it may damage the confidence of the player. However, if these boundaries and expectations are made at the beginning during the selection process, the understanding is agreed upon and there should be no waivering or influencing of such in any manner. Then we may be able to develop a national team that can compete.

Just my opinion......

[fishman]

Well, once again, I will complain about the level of coaching in our country, and for that I blame the CSA.

Their support for coaching education is abysmal. The current scheme - community coach child/youth/senior, pre-B, Provincial B, National B, A License - has terrible gaps in it. Next to no goalkeeper education, they have stopped the once-offered Technical Director license from a few years ago, they rarely conduct clinics, symposiums or other professional development opportunities...

Does the CSA offer any rubrics, soccer-specific LTAD technical scheme, or any idea of what players can learn at their various stages of development? Not that I have ever seen. I had to pour hours into creating my own.

What I do know is that the various NTC staff coaches don't communicate with the club coaches - or at least they don't in the Prairies - towards creating a development curriculum or best practices guide for working with players. And as such, they have only themselves to blame for age-group National Team players that are not comfortable with the ball, have poor ranges of passing, myopic tactical awareness and lackluster problem solving. I have coached dozens of NTC players, and typically the ones that are passed over for WNT selection are those that "like the ball too much", or are "impish", both verbatim quotes from Scouting Weekend reports.

We have one footed players with an inability to play a short passing, possession game represent our country time and again; we select aggressive kids who can pressure the ball but can't keep it once they win it back. We bypass the midfield continuously because we "want to take the fight to the opponent" instead of playing in our central players for distribution. It is painful to watch and even worse to coach some of these good athletes that have been poorly trained - and much of that training has been experienced in academies and national training centres.

If the CSA wants more skilled players it should mentor the coaches that work with the athletes most often. It should offer increased coaching education opportunities, liaise with club TDs, offer workshops, etc.. But it doesn't. And because it doesn't muppets like the CSA talking heads like BR should stop complaining.

[18 Yards]

Thank you all but it was Trilluim that gave me the idea. However it seems like the only way our National team coach can keep track of everything.

[CoachRich]

^ since you seem to be good with stats, would you know how many players did BR see to pick his team?

Not enough but based on his coaching style that's a good thing IMO ;-)

[CoachRich]

Again density in a small geo footprint helps -

Metro Toronto - 5,113,149

Metro São Paulo - 19,889,559

Good point on mandatory rostering for the pro clubs. Yes ours broken and we have discussed many times the benefits of Pro clubs picking up kids before they are 14 but the Canadian landscape for women is go to High School and then NCAA then stay out of Canada to be a pro.

[CoachRich]

Well, once again, I will complain about the level of coaching in our country, and for that I blame the CSA.

Their support for coaching education is abysmal. The current scheme - community coach child/youth/senior, pre-B, Provincial B, National B, A License - has terrible gaps in it. Next to no goalkeeper education, they have stopped the once-offered Technical Director license from a few years ago, they rarely conduct clinics, symposiums or other professional development opportunities...

Does the CSA offer any rubrics, soccer-specific LTAD technical scheme, or any idea of what players can learn at their various stages of development? Not that I have ever seen. I had to pour hours into creating my own.

What I do know is that the various NTC staff coaches don't communicate with the club coaches - or at least they don't in the Prairies - towards creating a development curriculum or best practices guide for working with players. And as such, they have only themselves to blame for age-group National Team players that are not comfortable with the ball, have poor ranges of passing, myopic tactical awareness and lackluster problem solving. I have coached dozens of NTC players, and typically the ones that are passed over for WNT selection are those that "like the ball too much", or are "impish", both verbatim quotes from Scouting Weekend reports.

We have one footed players with an inability to play a short passing, possession game represent our country time and again; we select aggressive kids who can pressure the ball but can't keep it once they win it back. We bypass the midfield continuously because we "want to take the fight to the opponent" instead of playing in our central players for distribution. It is painful to watch and even worse to coach some of these good athletes that have been poorly trained - and much of that training has been experienced in academies and national training centres.

If the CSA wants more skilled players it should mentor the coaches that work with the athletes most often. It should offer increased coaching education opportunities, liaise with club TDs, offer workshops, etc.. But it doesn't. And because it doesn't muppets like the CSA talking heads like BR should stop complaining.

Some very good points and I agree with the ones on coaching big time as a certificate nor having played pro doesn't make a better coach. One of the key things about making coaches better is that you have to change the environment in the club and national structure too. I've seen great coaches with well developed teams get dictated by the club and parents of the mom and pop era. Also with so many pro players coaching and wanting pay, a lot of other good coaches get ignored as they are not part of the old boys club. Having too many clubs also effects the level of coaching. Bigger clubs make it easier to teach and mentor the coaching pool. plus place the coaches at the right caliber level.

[CAFAN]

I'd love to see the 'Own the Podium' program get extended to soccer so that some people who really know how to get results have a look at what needs to be done. I think they would start by really looking at what the likes of Germany, Brazil etc. are doing better than Canada. No guesswork.

[StrandOne]

^ since you seem to be good with stats, would you know how many players did BR see to pick his team?

Here's a question-- Can / should Voyageurs create a player profile website for young soccer players to gain better visibility? Something like http://www.play3rsport.com/category/athletes/

And yes, this is my brother's company. And yes, I know Bianca Ribi. But I'm musing about a Voyageurs-created/groomed site. Y'all seem like a reputable and responsible bunch-- ridiculous griping aside. What sayest thou??

[The Ref]

^ I think it is a brilliant idea. If we wait for the CSA to move their behind the majority of naturally talented players will continue to fell through the cracks of the CSA.

[StrandOne]

Really? You think it's doable? I mean, it'd be easy to set up and moderate. Y'all already send out an e-newsletter (which I actually read). Sending one to all NTC and nat'l coaches once a month shouldn't be tough. Then there's no excuses as to knowing what talent is scattered across the country. We could set up video seminars showing parents HOW to capture high quality game video. I can see a site like that being sponsored heavily by SONY, a current CSA major sponsor. Whaddya y'all think? Honestly.

And btw this is what I mean by offering solutions IN ADDITION to airing the gripes. It may not be the only solution or the best, but it's SOMETHING.

[Guest Ed]

As one of the longest-serving members on this forum, I will say that's a grand idea. However, as with most grand ideas, we need someone to do the ground work, gratis of course. Any volunteers?

As an aside, I've been thinking of how we can better the site, and such player profiles would be great on the men's side as well.

Men

U17 pool - with player names linked to bio's, stats, etc.

U20 pool

Olympic pool

National team pool

Women

repeat

[navycyr]

I like the way this thread / forum is going. If we can put on something that will work and help players with talent, I'm 100% behind. It's out of my competencies, but if I could contribute monetarily, I would.

[Guest Ed]

Well I am very glad the Alberta Soccer Association crap-fest has brought in so many more people to this forum, with new ideas, different concerns than many of the long standing forum members who really focus on the mens side. The only common goal of this forum, from my perspective from some 10+ years of trying to get the word out on our national teams, is to support all our national teams. A ever-evolving player pool database would be a great addition to this forum. Would have to keep some parents out of the edit mode so no embellishment . I think this might deserve a thread of its own in the FORUM section.

[StrandOne]

Yes Ed, the player profiles definitely deserves its own thread. But I'll submit this suggestion early-- you get what you pay for. I suggest lining up corporate sponsorship of a full-fledged player profile site that includes video so coaches can SEE the players. Plus, there should be a small fee for setting up a profile & having it maintained. People should make a commitment and recognize value. As a non-profit (?) Voyageurs can channel growing funds to a SCHOLARSHIP program to help kids play, travel, study in conjunction with soccer. I'm so glad some of you like the idea. Let's rock it! But please don't cut corners. It's a valuable service to CSA, children and coaches from all over. Revenue generated can be ethically sheparded into an endowment fund that propagates success in this tiny area of the mosaic that is CDN soccer. hip hip !!

[mirokliment@shaw.ca]

Disappointing to be out played in all 3 games in the group and then go home.

[navycyr]

Disappointing to be out played in all 3 games in the group and then go home.

When You Lose, Don't Lose the Lesson !

We must turn the page learn the lesson and move on.

If we don't learn anything, we might not even be part of the next U17 world cup. Winning on PKs against USA after a 0-0 tie will happen only once out of a hundred times.

Sorry to say that, but I'm not disappointed at all. We got the result I was expecting and we deserved. You can't expect winning anymore by building a unidimensional team, defense for Canada, offense for Nigeria (altough I enjoyed a lot more seing Nigeria beaten 6-5 than Canada loosing a 1-0 uninteresting game). Athletic abilities alone won't make you a top international team anymore. The only disappointment, if one, is the loss against Ireland, a similar type of team of Canada U17 with, in my opinion, just a little better offense. I had identified that game before the tournament as the key game for Canada in this tournament. My opinion is the team was not ready for that game, we did'nt present ourselves. The team looked like searching a 0-0 result, instead of a win. When your only concern seems preventing your opponent from scoring, you make yourself very vulnerable because a little mistake, a mishap or a misfortune can ruin your day, what eventually happened when the girl trying to clear the defensive zone hit the referee...

So I invite you to go out of disapointment, turn the page and join the group in its search of what might be done to improve the program whitout spending massive amounts of money we don't and (very probably) won't have (As a private company manager, my employees have to demonstrate they already do the most with the budget they are allowed before I allow them additional amounts of money and it should be the same with every organization. Since I am far from conviced CSA makes optimal use of the money it is already granted, I doubt many are willing to pour extra money in).

But like you can see in previous posts, there are imaginative fans who came out with innovative, not costly, ideas that might help. But like some others have pointed out, whatever we might do or suggest, it will be vain, useless, if there is no philosophy evolution at the top, if coaching doesn't evolve, if selection criteria and methods remain the same... You can see gifted athletes from across the country with great soccer game sense but it will be useless if your main criteria are track and field capabilities (altough nice to have, they should be, in my mind, second to soccer talent).