Luis_Rancagua Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 This is a very interesting article on MLS expansion. What's so sad here is that Montreal is nowhere mentioned here. This makes me wonder if Joey Saputo is serious about MLS. ------------------------------ Vegas runs hard as soccer town By Rob Miech <rob.miech@lasvegassun.com> Las Vegas Sun Today: September 18, 2007 These are heady times, pardon the pun, for Major League Soccer. Dan Courtemanche, an MLS senior vice president in charge of communication and marketing, says interest in MLS expansion is the highest in league history. "Significantly greater than even six months ago," he wrote in an e-mail. The Las Vegas Sports and Entertainment Group has been trying to woo MLS brass for most of the year, and it's been involved in serious negotiations with several potential, and powerful, partners in recent weeks. One way or another, those talks will conclude, or take a few twists and turns, within the next month or so. Where Las Vegas currently stands with MLS Commissioner Don Garber and his minions is difficult to gauge. Let's say Garber is good at waltzing and stalling. We don't know who's leading the dance. We do know that Garber has given the nod to San Jose to become the league's 14th team next year. He had planned to enlarge MLS to 16 teams in 2010, but that plan appears to have changed. By early 2008, at the latest, Courtemanche says those two additional teams will be announced. He says they might begin play in 2009. In response to the heavy interest in the league, two more expansion teams, Nos. 17 and 18, will likely be added to MLS for the 2011 or 2012 seasons. Where does Las Vegas fit in the master plan? We have digested everything we know, from published reports, interviews and behind-the-scenes maneuvering, to answer that question. What follows is a capsule look at the expansion cities that Garber mentioned during his state-of-the-league address at the All-Star break. High-ranking sources confirmed the validity of this list. Even though we post odds purely for entertainment reasons, heed them. Pay close attention to the four with the lowest odds and you might have the next four MLS franchises. There are solid reasons why long shots shouldn't even be on this list, and why soccer-crazed fans in Seattle and St. Louis should be ecstatic. Atlanta Odds: 100-1 Population (metropolitan area): 486,000 (5.14 million) Background: A top-10 media market and rising Hispanic population lured MLS executives to explore “Hotlanta” in 2005 and 2006, but solid ownership and a suitable venue have been elusive. Soccer history: Well, the U.S. women’s team started its streak of success here at the Olympics in 1996 … the Silverbacks of the USL First Division play in a spiffy soccer-specific stadium in nearby Chamblee, but the playoffs have been elusive since they started in 1998. Cleveland Odds: 60-1 Population (metropolitan area): 444,000 (2.11 million) Background: An effort to get an expansion team in 2004 dissolved with a lack of public funds for a stadium. Soccer-mad actor and comedian Drew Carey would be a natural for an ownership group. Columbus would be an instant rival. Soccer history: English amateurs beat the best local team, 8-0, in 1906 … the indoor Force played before crowds of 20,000 ... the Crunch won a National Professional Soccer League indoor crown in 1994 ... the Stokers played only two seasons, but they beat Santos of Brazil, and Pele, in July 1968, at Cleveland Municipal Stadium. Las Vegas Odds: 10-1 Population (metropolitan area): 553,000 (1.78 million) Background: Mark Noorzai and Hall of Fame defender Paul Caligiuri are the main figures of the Las Vegas Sports and Entertainment Group, which is supposedly worth billions of dollars. Their plans feature a $500 million soccer-specific stadium with a retractable roof. Soccer history: The Quicksilvers averaged 7,000 fans in their lone NASL season in 1977 ... the Dustdevils won a Continental Indoor Soccer League crown in their debut, in 1994, then folded after the 1995 season ... the amateur Strikers played from 2003 to 2006 before suspending operations because of a lack of interest and a proper pitch … UNLV’s women have played in the past three NCAAs. Miami Odds: 35-1 Population (metropolitan area): 404,000 (5.46 million) Background: Mayor Manny Diaz has spoken with Garber about a team playing in a multi purpose stadium on current Orange Bowl grounds. Boca Juniors from Argentina are rumored to be interested in the area. Boca Miami? Soccer history: Poor attendance (in Fort Lauderdale) forced MLS to eliminate the Fusion in 2001 … Miami FC joined the United Soccer Leagues First Division in 2006 … the first pro beach event in the U.S. was played on Miami Beach in 1993 and it’s now a 16-stop summer tour. Milwaukee Odds: 75-1 Population (metropolitan area): 573,000 (1.51 million) Background: Peter Wilt, former Chicago Fire general manager, and Milwaukee sports lawyer Marty Greenberg have pitched building a roll-away soccer field at the Milwaukee Mile racetrack in nearby West Allis. They haven’t been able to attract local investors, though. Soccer history: Germania Milwaukee, comprised of German-American All-Stars, went 4-3 on a tour in Germany in 1930 … the Milwaukee Wave, established in 1984, won four indoor titles between 1998 and 2005 … Wisconsin-Milwaukee has been an NCAA tournament regular this decade and has drawn well. New York Odds: 8-1 Population (metropolitan area): 8.214 million (18.82 million) Background: Fred Wilpon, an owner of the Mets, is exploring the venture. Might this be the second coming of the Cosmos, and might it be a New York football team that actually plays its home games in the Big Apple? Soccer history: The biggest futebol splash in the city, if not the country, was by the Cosmos, who signed Pele … they won five titles in the old NASL, between 1971 and 1984, then folded in 1985 after trying to make it as an independent. Philadelphia Odds: 6-1 Population (metropolitan area): 1.448 million (5.83 million) Background: Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie has met with Garber about expansion, and passed on the idea. Philly features one of the most rabid, grass-roots groups in the Sons of Ben. It has been featured in the popular British soccer magazine FourFourTwo. Soccer history: Got a few days? The famous Lighthouse Boys Club, from suburban Kensington, supplied four former members to the 1936 U.S. Olympic team … the Big Five schools, especially Temple, have thrived … the U.S. Open Cup spent most of the 1960s here … its first pro team started in 1894 and was called the Phillies. Phoenix Odds: 20-1 Population (metropolitan area): 1.512 million (4.04 million) Background: Arizona native Dana Gagnon, a finance manager for MLS, heads PHX Soccer Development. Ron Gilmore, who helped San Jose land an NHL team, leads MLS Phoenix Rising. Those two groups have made Phoenix a late player in the expansion sweepstakes. Soccer history: A friendly match between the U.S. and Mexico drew a capacity crowd of 62,462 at University of Phoenix Stadium this year … last year, more than 40,000 attended a match between two popular Mexican clubs. Portland, Ore. Odds: 40-1 Population (metropolitan area): 537,000 (2.14 million) Background: Los Angeles real estate developer Michael Keston and his son, James, have been trying for years to bring a team to the Northwest. Timbers owner Merritt Paulson controls the lease to the downtown PGE Park. Converting Hillsboro Stadium on the outskirts of town is another option. Soccer history: First played in the Rose City almost 100 years ago … the Timbers played in the old NASL from 1975 to 1982, and they have averaged about 5,000 fans since joining the USL First Division in 2001 … has supported the University of Portland men’s and women’s programs well over the years. San Diego Odds: 100-1 Population (metropolitan area): 1.257 million (2.94 million) Background: An iffy proposition, because it lacks a prospective ownership group with deep pockets and has no plans for a soccer-specific stadium, a must for MLS brass. Soccer history: The Sockers won 10 indoor titles in the 11 seasons between 1982 and 1992, folding in 1996 ... amateur and college teams have been around for decades … did you know San Diego State, which played in the NCAA title match in 1987, is now part of the Pac-10 Conference? The men’s soccer team has been since 2005. Seattle Odds: 3-2 Population (metropolitan area): 582,000 (3.26 million) Background: MLS has repeatedly tried, and failed, to court Seahawks owner and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. Look for that courtship to succeed this fall. Soccer history: A crowd of 58,128 packed inside the new Kingdome in 1976 for a preseason match against New York. The team averaged 23,826 fans that season … several indoor and outdoor teams played in the Seattle and Tacoma areas from the 1970s through the 1990s … the Sounders upended the MLS Colorado Rapids, 5-0, in the U.S. Open Cup last month. St. Louis Odds: 4-1 Population (metropolitan area): 354,000 (2.80 million) Background: Jeff Cooper heads the popular St. Louis Soccer United group and has made inroads on a stadium project in Collinsville, Ill., just east of St. Louis. Soccer history: One of the richest in the country in amateur and collegiate titles … five of the starting 11 for the U.S. in its 1950 World Cup upset of England hailed from St. Louis ... the Stars of the old NASL mostly drew poorly in the 1960s and 1970s ... home of Brian McBride, recently named the first American captain of an English Premier club at Fulham. Vancouver Odds: 70-1 Population (metropolitan area): 578,000 (2.12 million) Background: Garber has noted the “great job” Greg Kerfoot has done as owner of the Vancouver Whitecaps of the United Soccer Leagues. Kerfoot owns waterfront land on which he’d like to build a 15,000-seat stadium, but there have been re zoning battles for four years. Soccer history: In one form or another, the Whitecaps have been a mainstay in the city for more than 30 years … they averaged 29,164 fans in the old NASL in 1983 … the 86ers won Canadian Soccer League titles from 1988 to 1991, which included 46 consecutive games without a defeat, a North American professional team record. Rob Miech can be reached at 259-4087 or at miech@lasvegassun.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Las Vegas? Jeebus, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 From what has been said *publicly*, I'm not even sure that MLS and the Impact have been talking to each other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimo Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Daniel, Are you kidding me??? Please tell me this isn't true!! For God's sake!! Montreal needs to move on from the USL!!! I was wondering why we aren't even in this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Boy Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup Las Vegas? Jeebus, no thanks. who'd wanna play there in an afternoon game in the summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I also find it depressing that Montreal isn't even on the radar -bahhhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I also find it depressing that Montreal isn't even on the radar -bahhhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I am telling you, MLS 2 is a viable option in one form or another in North America. Even if you don't like the leagues linked up with pro-rel, there could be a lot to be gained from having potential MLS markets on display as a kind of dress rehearsal. It would give them all decent competition and the league could operate as a formal or informal feeder system like the NHL has. There are just too many good markets (like Vancouver and Montreal) that need to get out of soccer Siberia and into a more professional atmosphere, and to be part of a better product. I mean, just look at all the good markets available with not enough MLS teams to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I am telling you, MLS 2 is a viable option in one form or another in North America. Even if you don't like the leagues linked up with pro-rel, there could be a lot to be gained from having potential MLS markets on display as a kind of dress rehearsal. It would give them all decent competition and the league could operate as a formal or informal feeder system like the NHL has. There are just too many good markets (like Vancouver and Montreal) that need to get out of soccer Siberia and into a more professional atmosphere, and to be part of a better product. I mean, just look at all the good markets available with not enough MLS teams to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Danny Boy who'd wanna play there in an afternoon game in the summer? Their stadium plan apparently includes a retractable roof. Maybe the plan is to close the roof in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Don Garber told the media during HT of the TFC-Galaxy match that he had spoken to ownership groups in both Vancouver and Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 What I find so strange with the article is that Philly and St-Louis are the 2 teams that have taking the lead in the MLS expansion bids. This is stated quite clearly in the latest articles I have posted here on Voyageur. In fact, this article contradicts these previous opinions. As for Montreal, I don’t think Joey Saputo is that stupid in ignoring such a great opportunity like MLS. Perhaps he is speaking with MLS, but behind close doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Montreal and Vancouver are not short term options for expansion due to TFC's exclusivity clause so there is little need to over analyze either of those cities chances to be part of MLS. IMO, MLS will expand to 18 teams before 2010. I am quite confident that the next 4 teams will be US teams and I believe that St. Louis, Philly nd will definitely get teams and I think 1 team will go the Pacific Northwest. If the NY Mets want a team in Queens, then I could definitely see a team in NYC. The next Canadian team in MLS will be added for 2011 or 2012 as part of a final two team expansion to create a 20 team league. Once they have a 20 team league, then Nolando's idea of MLS2 makes a ton of sense, even if it simply means purchasing USL. Of course, all of this assumes steady growth for the league. It will also require an expansion of the salary cap and loosening of foreign player restrictions so that they can start recruiting more foreign talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis_Rancagua Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 What the league should do is remove Chivas USA out of L.A. and placed them in San Diego. This was the original proposal of the league when Chivas applied for a bid way back then. Having this club in L.A., and sharing their stadium with the Galaxy, is not working-out at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boban1 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr It will also require .... loosening of foreign player restrictions so that they can start recruiting more foreign talent. Stick a fork in it then cause what's the purpose of it? FIFA wouldn't allow it. Five players is plenty foreign talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua What the league should do is remove Chivas USA out of L.A. and placed them in San Diego. This was the original proposal of the league when Chivas applied for a bid way back then. Having this club in L.A., and sharing their stadium with the Galaxy, is not working-out at all. I'd like to see that happen. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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