jagum Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 If Jamaica and Trinidad Tobago ties Canada qualifies ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Are you sure? We qualify provided the first tie break is goal diff. But if it is head to head then TnT gets in. I couldn't find anything on this at the Cock'n'Calf site. Hmmm, ya don't suppose that in a situation like this, with no clear directive, an unbiased neutral party of upstanding ethics like Jack "Hide the Silverware" Warner gets to decide on what tiebreak method to use? [}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jagum If Jamaica and Trinidad Tobago ties Canada qualifies ! Unless they tie at 4-4, then Jamaica would get thru with greater goals scored in the group. An outside chance obviously. This really should have been decided by the T&T match. Missing those umpteen opportunities is haunting them. A coach cannot control these situations and I am sure Stephen Hart would have been more livid in the dressing room than he was when he openly stated to the media about the poor finishing... or lack thereof. A poster in another thread stated that as they have an asst coach and GK coach, a coach to work exclusively with forwards/strikers and attacking midfielders would be a genuinely good idea. Let's hope they get a bit of luck with a low-scoring draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Isnt Jamaica at -3 goal? 0-3 against canada -3 0-1 against CR -4 3-2 against US -3 a tie against T&T wiil leave them at -3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagum Posted May 6, 2007 Author Share Posted May 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Dave Are you sure? We qualify provided the first tie break is goal diff. But if it is head to head then TnT gets in. I couldn't find anything on this at the Cock'n'Calf site. Hmmm, ya don't suppose that in a situation like this, with no clear directive, an unbiased neutral party of upstanding ethics like Jack "Hide the Silverware" Warner gets to decide on what tiebreak method to use? [}] When the 3 teams have the same points I think that the team with the best goal diff. will qualify. the "head to head" system do not apply in this case because 3 teams are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesW Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 When does the game take place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 end of first half still one nil TnT. live audio of game here: http://www.i955fm.com/nowplaying.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 thanks, they complain about the audio quality but its coming in very well, or maybe those were just more complaints on the commentators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 at half time i thought i heard the TnT commentators say that the TnT coach had employed psychology by telling his young players that they needed a win to qualify or else canada would go thru, EVEN THOUGH IN FACT A TIE WAS SUFFICIENT FOR TNT TO QUALIFY. Is this true? If so we are already out, regardless of the result of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 thanks for clearing that up Sigma. I assume that is on the basis of head to head results being the first tiebreaker (in a 3 way situation presumably you would count games involving 2 of the 3 tied teams, in which case TnT goes through with one win and one tie against Canada and Jamaica.) I'm curious where you found this info... i looked all over yesterday and couldn't find anything.... unless Jack Warner just kind of makes up the rules as he goes along; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Sigma That is my understanding. http://www.concacaf.com/graphics/stats-regs/pdf/junior_17_e.pdf 4. At the end of group play, if two or more teams are equal on points (including ties among third place teams), the manner in which teams will advance to the next round will be resolved as follows and in the order indicated: a. The result of head-to-head competition between the two tied teams; b. The difference between goals for and goals against from all group matches; c. The team having scored the most goals from all group matches; d. Failing this, the qualified team shall be determined by a drawing of lots carried out by a member of the Organizing Committee. So a) doesn't apply, we go to and Canada qualify if T&T and Jamaica tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 53 min T&T 1- 0 Jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Thanks for the info. (my previous post was done before you included this.) If I were Hart, I would consider protesting this, on the basis of the wording. "a. The result of head-to-head competition between the two tied teams; " Looks to me like this only applies when two teams are tied, not three. Some later clauses do not specifically indicate two tied teams, which strengthens the legal argument that the first clause is meant to be exclusive. Of course, this being the CSA, nothing will be done. We will bend over and take it as always. I am willing to bet that, if Holger had not been coach in 2000 and raised a stink at the Gold Cup, the coin toss would have been done behind closed doors, and surprise surprise Canada would have lost. Come on CSA get some bloody testicles. quote:Originally posted by Sigma http://www.concacaf.com/graphics/stats-regs/pdf/junior_17_e.pdf 4. At the end of group play, if two or more teams are equal on points (including ties among third place teams), the manner in which teams will advance to the next round will be resolved as follows and in the order indicated: a. The result of head-to-head competition between the two tied teams; b. The difference between goals for and goals against from all group matches; c. The team having scored the most goals from all group matches; d. Failing this, the qualified team shall be determined by a drawing of lots carried out by a member of the Organizing Committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Jamaica had a goal disallowed as it was offside. Is it just me or are these guys great commentators, their so genuinly excited it gets you on yer feet even though its audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 75 min T&T 1 - 0 Jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Trinidad win 1-0, the goal was apparently a beauty (only heard it described in the second half, edge of the box, acute angle, far top corner, sounds pretty classy). so Canada's out... edit: it was scored by Kevin Molina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cndsoccer Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 what else is new...what a big surprize. i guess stephen hart is happy his country made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 The question is why are our U20s doing so well (qualified 3 times since 2001 and 4 times in 5 editions), yet our U17s are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Well in U-20 the biggest problem is probably errors, so I'm assuming it's even worse in the U-17 game, which would make everything alot more even and less telling for all countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Juby Well in U-20 the biggest problem is probably errors, so I'm assuming it's even worse in the U-17 game, which would make everything alot more even and less telling for all countries. If possible, can you explain this? I don't get it. Sorry if I'm the only one. If it's apples to apples, the U17 program is not successful because it has proven it is not as good nor obviously better than their opponents, while the U20s have proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I mean that at the U-17 level theres so many errors that its alot easier for a less talented side to win by fluke, even if a team has zero scoring talent theres an increased chance at the U-20 level of an own goal and so theirs an even greater likliehood at the U-17. Not every participant in a U-20 competition pans out, even less so in the U-17... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Guys, you have to take into account that before this year the number of CONCACAF teams who qualified for the U-17 WC was lower (2 or 3) and at the U-20 level it's 4. If I look at the last 3 U-17 tourney for us, I think only the 2005 team had bad results (and we started our 3rd and 4th keepers...). 2003 was a bit unlucky and it seems that we've had the same bad luck. the good news is that those teams always seems to improve with time, so let's hope they'll do well in 2009 and 2011 for our U-20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclee Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 If we outplayed T & T as much as we are led to believe, then T & T are in for a quick exit in Korea. I agree with an earlier poster that a one game series an inferior opponent can succeed due to errors and luck (we have benefited at times). We have to look at the positives and that the players learned some valuable lessons for their development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cndsoccer Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 coaching,coaching,coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by loyola Guys, you have to take into account that before this year the number of CONCACAF teams who qualified for the U-17 WC was lower (2 or 3) and at the U-20 level it's 4. If I look at the last 3 U-17 tourney for us, I think only the 2005 team had bad results (and we started our 3rd and 4th keepers...). 2003 was a bit unlucky and it seems that we've had the same bad luck. the good news is that those teams always seems to improve with time, so let's hope they'll do well in 2009 and 2011 for our U-20's. With that being the case, this year should of been a no brainer. Last WC qualifing, we only had 3 spots to go onto the WC. This year there were 5 spots and 3 of those were from Canada's pool. All we had to do was finish 3'rd. 3'RD. Perhaps the best players weren't there and definately the coach has to take responsibilty for this blunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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