BC academy launches suit against BCSA

[Richard]

"Recent initiatives by the BCSA have made it necessary for our organization to protect the continuity of our program and some of our more significant and established business interests."

http://www.bcsoccerweb.com/articles-06/bcsw-may-03.htm

An interesting development.

[Regs]

More interesting is the fact that BCSA put a 'proposal' to vote on by their membership (as they have to do) for making TSS an associate member or whatever status they are looking for - the membership voted no.

Kinda changes things when put into that perspective.

As for the 'no go in Washington State" stuff - if teams are travelling out of province and are not affiliated, who is covering medical insurance? Who's liable then? The tournaments?

[Richard]

I don't know the history on this, just found this development interesting. I am told on impeccable authority that one CSA director has a child registered with a private soccer academy and that SAAC's application for CSA membership is on the CSA Agenda at the CSA AGM. TSS is a member of SAAC. If that passes then BCSA's refusal to affiliate TSS and any other private academies becomes moot I would imagine and the landscape will change significantly for all of the for-profit soccer academies.

[Bill Ault]

quote:Originally posted by Regs

As for the 'no go in Washington State" stuff - if teams are travelling out of province and are not affiliated, who is covering medical insurance? Who's liable then? The tournaments?

Private medical insurance is available for very reasonable costs (especially in the case one weekend). The insurance thing IMO is a red herring thrown out by the associations to intimidate people to tow the line. Just as there is private insurance available for camp operators etc. that the associations would preper people did not know about.

Very soon I think this whole thing is going to take a turn all the Associations are going to regret. How long is it before alternatives spring up as they have in the U.S.?

Bill

[L.T.]

full disclosure - I'm involved with SAAC - Soccer Academy Alliance Canada

As Bill said, obtaining insurance on par with what the provincial associations provide was actually quite afforadble for us. Academy players & staff that are registered through SAAC are covered for accident insurance throughout North America. The association also has extensive General Liability coverage.

This academies are providing a positive impact on the game - I know that one of the SAAC members has a coaching budget of over $200,000 this year. Granted, the players will have to pay (discussed to death elsewhere in this forum) but they are getting top notch training and qualified coaches are being kept in Canada rather that heading south to make a living. Another of our academies recently signed Stuart Neely (ex-CSA) to be its Director of Coaching.

[Regs]

The point I'm making is that 'the letter' doesn't give the whole story.

Noone is saying they are not making a positive impact. However, I'm not too sure how positive putting out a public letter saying you are 'preparing' legal action is

[bettermirror]

The issue is the old standard. The BCSA has always been in charge and intend on staying in that position. There authority is being challenged and they have got their backs up. It is a simple defensive response. It is wrong.

What I find particularly disconcerting is the restriction of travel outside of the province. As mentioned, there is private insurance available for a reasonable price that any parent involved in these programs would pay. Why in the world the BCSA would want to limit this travel is beyond me as it can only benefit the BCSA by having teams travel abroad.

How this unfolds is crucial to all private academies, including the academy in my local area. If these clubs are deemed...renegade(? for lack of a better word I suppose) then there will be further fracturing of soccer in this country and the steps these academies are trying to take forward in the game will be erased, and you may find children choosing one of traditional club, private academy or even high school soccer as their only soccer, as opposed historically being involved in all 3 venues.

[Regs]

Has anyone here, besides myself, actually tried to call up someone at BCSA and talk about what is going on with this issue? Or is everyone just inferring what they want/think/would like to think?

[Blue and White Army]

Let the officials at the BCSA rot. They were also very much responsible for the World Football Pages going under.

B*st*rds.

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Let the officials at the BCSA rot. They were also very much responsible for the World Football Pages going under.

B*st*rds.

How? Please expand.

[Blue and White Army]

BCSA offered WFP editor $$$ to make them a regular, newspaper-style newsletter. This money would have let WFP continue to stay in the black.

WFP editor created a sample model of what he'd make, and submitted it to BCSA. BCSA said they'd get back to him. They never did.

Months later, BCSA published their new newspaper-style newsletter, alarmingly identical to the model WFP editor made for them. WFP never saw a cent. WFP goes bust financially soon after.

Blood on BCSA's hands.

[Regs]

If that is true, then karma certainly is a bitch

There once was a loyalty card program for a certain website, let's call it TTP for now, that a certain mag editor , let's call it WFP for now, was shown the ins and outs of a few summers ago.

3 months after that, a certain mag introduced their own loyalty program that was, surprisingly enough, 'alarmingly indentical' to the model TTP had.

"It's not like you invented loyalty card programs yourself" were some of the famous last words heard.

It's funny 'cause it's true

[analyst]

Back to the topic at hand - TSS's potential lawsuit against the BCSA.

There's no doubt that BCSA is favouring the Whitecaps, and the Whitecaps youth academy which is in competition with TSS. Montagliani and BCSA want to help Lenarduzzi and the Caps because the senior Caps have the potential to succeed and grow the game in BC. BCSA wants a MLS team in Vancouver, they want to see the best young soccer players stay in Vancouver, playing for a Vancouver MLS team.

I don't understand why TSS didn't use the same threat when BCSA had its own soccer academy operating out of 8Rinks, because it competed with TSS. Unlike other soccer schools, TSS has invested lots of money in its facility, so its stands to lose more than other schools from the BCSA Whitecaps partnership.

As for the other issue - is TSS accredited by BCSA? If not, why not, and is that why the TSS teams do not enjoy the BCSA insurance coverage? Its true that TSS can buy its own insurance for $2 or $3 per child. BCSA talked about accrediting soccer academies if the staff of those academies have passed security checks. BCSA is worried about lawsuits if a soccer players is abused (sexually or otherwise) by a coach, like happened in Nanaimo a few years ago.

[cbsoccer]

Diclosure Statement: I am involved in academy soccer in BC

A couple of points to clarify:

1) BC Soccer NEVER put to the membership any issue that addressed making Total Soccer Systems an Associate member. Regs, ask for a copy of the issue that was "voted" on and post it here for all to see. I would love to see it- it does not exist in any form that I know about or would recognize as being this issue. A challenge- please prove me wrong by posting the BC Soccer initiative.

2) TSS carries the exact same insurance policy that BC Soccer has and it coveres each player in the program. Therefore, these players would actually be insured twice if BC Soccer sanctioned their participation. The players are covered and the issue is a non-issue.

3) Risk Management forms/law suits...All TSS coaches go through the same clearing process as any club coach. A simple request bc BC Soccer would clear this up. The issue is all the more reason why BC Soccer should be overseeing ALL player development and include these organisations under the Umbrella of a PSO.

4) The reason why TSS did not take up the fight when BC Soccer was running the camps is that BC Soccer was not using the same tactics in attempting to stop them from playing in events.

Kep up the discussion and ask these questions. It is good for the players to have these answers.

[cbsoccer]

Diclosure Statement: I am involved in academy soccer in BC

A couple of points to clarify:

1) BC Soccer NEVER put to the membership any issue that addressed making Total Soccer Systems an Associate member. Regs, ask for a copy of the issue that was "voted" on and post it here for all to see. I would love to see it- it does not exist in any form that I know about or would recognize as being this issue. A challenge- please prove me wrong by posting the BC Soccer initiative.

2) TSS carries the exact same insurance policy that BC Soccer has and it coveres each player in the program. Therefore, these players would actually be insured twice if BC Soccer sanctioned their participation. The players are covered and the issue is a non-issue.

3) Risk Management forms/law suits...All TSS coaches go through the same clearing process as any club coach. A simple request bc BC Soccer would clear this up. The issue is all the more reason why BC Soccer should be overseeing ALL player development and include these organisations under the Umbrella of a PSO.

4) The reason why TSS did not take up the fight when BC Soccer was running the camps is that BC Soccer was not using the same tactics in attempting to stop them from playing in events.

Kep up the discussion and ask these questions. It is good for the players to have these answers.

[Regs]

quote:BC Soccer NEVER put to the membership any issue that addressed making Total Soccer Systems an Associate member.

How do YOU know that? You say you are involved in academy soccer in BC but don't mention that you are a voting member? Are you?

quote:It is good for the players to have these answers.

Good for the players or good for the business owners?

Devil's Advocate: Wasn't it around the same time that these high-performance academys started popping up in the province that Canada's international results started to take a bit of a nose-dive?

[Bill Ault]

quote:Originally posted by Regs

Devil's Advocate: Wasn't it around the same time that these high-performance academys started popping up in the province that Canada's international results started to take a bit of a nose-dive?

I don't think too many of the academies have been around since 1987

[Richard]

Regs, playing the devil's advocate in return, how do YOU know that a motion to grant TSS associate membership status was tabled at a general meeting let alone voted down by the BCSA the membership.

[Richard]

I don't mean to take a position here but if it's OK to have private for-profit healthcare for those who can afford it and are willing to pay the premium alongside and competing with the public healthcare system for an essential service like healthcare, why is it not OK to have private for profit soccer coaching recognised and licensed by the relevant authorities running alongside the 'public' system in what is definitely NOT an essential social service? I see these two soccer solitudes complementing each other frankly.

[Richard]

In my own experience in both Ontario and British Columbia it is really quite costly to parents for a child to be a member of a provincial allstar team at any level. Why is it OK for the OSA or BCSA to charge for these programs but not OK for a private entrepeneur to charge for soccer programs?

[wfp]

There I was breezing around during the Saudi-Ukraine match when I found this little gem from Regs. It was certainly more entertaining than the match, but like many scorelines it doesn't really tell the whole story does it now Mr. TTP.

Your 'loyalty card' was a good idea for TTP. Never doubted that, and WFP supported your efforts, offering free subs to your member winners for as long as we could. But let's keep it real OK. Your 'loyalty card' was nothing new and nothing special. Ask the folk at Petro Points, Air Miles, Club Z etc etc, all, like me, dreaming up ideas long before you'd drag your lazy ass out of bed. You told me yourself you planned to do as little as possible to earn as much as possible.

Well guess what?, your work ethic sucks, and way back then I wasn't exactly jumping to make sure you were one of the first on board with WFP's soon to be released Subscriber Card. Besides, there was no clear idea at that time what TTP could throw into the mix. So though I never counted you out and eventually would have counted you in, I concentrated on lining up a dozen soccer-specific retailers etc that added immediate value to being a WFP subscriber.

Now what on earth is this "alarmingly indentical" nonsense? They look different, they serve different functions offering different benefits, most unique, they are identical only in the sense that they both attempt to link subscribers with relevent 'sponsors' and increase value to all. Well OK, maybe not there either given your personal work ethic! Point is, shake your bloody head. The 'idea' of 'loyalty cards' is as old as your tired attitude. It's not yours nor mine to claim and you certainly do not (as you once suggested) have the rights to such 'locked up' for this sport in this area. Again, please, shake your head and stop pissing all over perfectly decent threads of honest debate. This was not the forum for your lies.

You're just pissed now as you were then, that you were not included from day one (even though, as you suggest, you had included me in yours). You were probably also pissed that WFP's Subscriber card featured many more sponsors than yours, more tangable benefits and a few more hundred card holders.

There's a reason for that ya know!!

quote:Originally posted by Regs

If that is true, then karma certainly is a bitch

There once was a loyalty card program for a certain website, let's call it TTP for now, that a certain mag editor , let's call it WFP for now, was shown the ins and outs of a few summers ago.

3 months after that, a certain mag introduced their own loyalty program that was, surprisingly enough, 'alarmingly indentical' to the model TTP had.

"It's not like you invented loyalty card programs yourself" were some of the famous last words heard.

It's funny 'cause it's true

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Regs

Has anyone here, besides myself, actually tried to call up someone at BCSA and talk about what is going on with this issue? Or is everyone just inferring what they want/think/would like to think?

Yes, I had several discussions with then BCSA director Bob Hope on the subject of academies. As I recall he said (and I am paraphrasing here) the BCSA position was that they wanted the Districts to take more responsibility for player development rather than the independent academies and that unless the academies conformed to the traditional club format and joined their local district they would not be granted affiliation with the BCSA. Bob did not address the issue of BCSA reportedly requesting the WSSA to refuse TSS teams entry to Washington tournaments, which I find rather bizarre if true.

[Guest Soccrman]

Original link wouldn't work, but its an intersting topic.

Back in 2004 I took a Calgary club yth team to the Ian Rush tournament in Wales. Roman Tulis was there from Vancouver with academy teams. Apparently he goes there on a regular basis. We tried to find out from him/coaches/parents how he managed to get travel permission but couldn't get any answers. How come one can, but others can't?

I now work for a Calgary academy and theres no way we can put teams together to travel. We have to work with the clubs we train.

Very interesting.

[Richard]

Roman Tulis has been taking teams from his academy in Vancouver on tours to Europe for years. I doubt he has any BCSA accreditation or affiliation and I suspect he just doesn't bother and obviously neither do the tournament organisers where he tours. As we have heard from others in this thread, obtaining appropriate independent insurance cover is not a problem. This is a free country, there is no law that requires affiliation with any provincial or national organisation as a condition of playing or coaching soccer anywhere.

[Richard]

I think the CSA and provincial associations are sticking their collective heads in the sand refusing to acknowledge private soccer schools. These businesses are a fact of life, just as fulltime paid professional club coaches or technical directors have become much to the chagrin of some people. Clearly there is a market for the services the independent schools are providing. Roman Tulis for example has been operating his business successfuly for years and shows no sign of closing up shop. The current pyramid of play model being followed by the CSA and the provinces may not include provision for these schools but there is absolutely no rational reason why they should not be included. They're clearly not going away as is evidenced by the success of SAAC and it's growing list of members.