Potential Can of Worms

[The Beaver]

Beaches--very appropriate to have quotes from Sartre and Camus (great existential foes, sort of)! And I love the Monty Python song--always have.

Thanks for these.

[beachesl]

I love Camus. "The Plague" has to be one of the most perfect and brilliant little novels ever written. There is a great scene where the protaganist, trying to get out of quarantined Oran to be reunited with his lover, is trying to convince and buy the native Algerian hood to get him out. At one point in the negotiations, the talk turns to football, and the Algerian makes a provocative statement that the striker has the most important role on the pitch. The protaganist wrestles with the existential dilemmma of giving into this, because he inherently knows the centre-midfield is in fact the most important position, but bites his tongue and his other feelings of moral responsibility to pursue the selfish goals he knows are wrong. Not unlike going along with superbitch.

I wish Yallop had contemplated the finer points of Camus before making his player selections.

Ahhh, football, philosophy and life!

[juaninho]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Juaninho, I'll go out on a limb and guess that you are doing post-grad work in philosophy. Care to divulge the focus of your studies? Following the Anglo-American tradition or the Continental? Of course this is only my bias, but it seems to me real soccer fans would rather study Lecan and Lyotard than Russell et al. Or is that me assuming that soccer fans are more European than Anglo-American? Or, and this is probably more accurate, does anybody really give a dammit?

Did you study philosophy Beaver? If you haven't then something tangentially related, like poli sci.

The grad studies are couched in the continental tradition, something on Hegel. Yes and i do agree with you about soccer fans more inclined to peruse the prose of the Continentals then read the logical prescriptions of the Anglo-American camp. I just don't think the Anglo-American philosophs can digest the idea of the inherent ambiguity found in scoreless draws.

And for beaches, Camus is really quite good - Camus actually played 'keeper for an Algerian football team - but Kafka's "The Trial" always finds a soft spot in my heart when it comes to existential novels. There's something about staring in the face of a murky or undetermined absolute and trying to be accountable for your life within such a framework that has a particular resonance.

Have either of you two - beaches or The Beaver - ever seen the Monty Python 'Greek vs. German Philosophers' International football match? An understated but hilarious classic. Quite a pair of starting 11s!

DEUTSCHLAND [Germany]

1 LEIBNITZ

2 I. KANT

3 HEGEL

4 SCHOPENHAUER

5 SCHELLING

6 BECKENBAUER

7 JASPERS

8 SCHLEGEL

9 WITTGENSTEIN

10 NIETZSCHE

11 HEIDEGGER

GRIECHENLAND [Greece]

1 PLATO

2 EPIKTET

3 ARISTOTELES

4 SOPHOKLES

5 EMPEDOKLES VON ACRAGA

6 PLOTIN

7 EPIKUR

8 HERAKLIT

9 DEMOKRIT

10 SOKRATES

11 ARCHIMEDES

[canso]

That's the best Python sketch, laughed hardest when Nietzche gets red carded. Anyone read "Football in Sun and Shadow"? Has some great stories of the game from a Latin mystical myth and legends a la Borges or Marquez.

The 100 metre freestyle for people was pretty entertaining as well!

[canso]

That should read "100 metre freestyle for people who can't swim."

"and we'll be back when they start to fish out the bodies."

[The Beaver]

Yeah, I love the Python sketch of the "Greek vs. German Philosophers"

And I am a big fan of Camus in general. (I spit on Sartre...)

I've never read "Football in Sun and Shadow" but am a huge fan of Garcia Marquez's and like Borges well enough, so will see if I can find a copy of this. Canso, you're literate? Wow, you're rising muchly in my estimation. I suppose I should just buy you a beer, eh?

Juaninho--I've studied and read philosophy here and there, but you are right, my degrees are tangentially--but beautifully-linked to philiosophy. I did my undergrad in Lit and my Masters in Creative Writing. A good friend of mine is finish his Ph.D at Emory in Atlanta, and we talk the philosophy **** a fair bit. He's left me in the dust, but I still learn a good deal from our discussions. My forte, however, is literature and writing. And I love the existential writers and the magic realists (though I hate that term). Great to see Camus, Kafka and Marquez emerge in this thread, as I am a huge fan of all of them. Kafka, of course, was a huge influence on Marquez.

And they all loved football, did they not?

[beachesl]

I never saw the exact 'Greek vs. German Philosophers' match, which I believe was on a German edition of the show. Monty Python would have variations of the same skits done on different shows. The skit I saw involved Western Philosophers v Eastern Philosopers. At kick-off, all the philosophers would wonder around the pitch ignoring the balll and discussing things, until one of them came up with the idea of getting the ball, moving it upfield and scoring while the other philosophers would stand around dumbfounded.

The German/Greek skit was replayed at Live at the Hollywood Bowl.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The sketch:

Aerial view of München Olympic stadium.

Football Commentator

Good afternoon, and welcome to a packed Olympic stadium, München...

CAPTION:

INTERNATIONALE PHILOSOPHIE [international Philosophy]

Rückspiel [Return match]

Football Commentator

...for the second leg of this exciting final. [German philosophers jog out of the dressing room.] And here come the Germans now, led by their skipper, "Nobby" Hegel. They must surely start favourites this afternoon; they've certainly attracted the most attention from the press with their team problems. And let's now see their line-up.

CAPTION:

DEUTSCHLAND [Germany]

1 LEIBNITZ

2 I. KANT

3 HEGEL

4 SCHOPENHAUER

5 SCHELLING

6 BECKENBAUER

7 JASPERS

8 SCHLEGEL

9 WITTGENSTEIN

10 NIETZSCHE

11 HEIDEGGER

High shot of Germans jogging onto pitch.

Football Commentator

The Germans playing 4-2-4, Leibniz in goal, back four Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer and Schelling, front-runners Schlegel, Wittgenstein, Nietzsche and Heidegger, and the mid-field duo of Beckenbauer and Jaspers. Beckenbauer obviously a bit of a surprise there.

Greek philosophers, all in togas, jog from the dressing room.

Football Commentator

And here come the Greeks, led out by their veteran centre-half, Heraclitus.

CAPTION:

GRIECHENLAND [Greece]

1 PLATO

2 EPIKTET

3 ARISTOTELES

4 SOPHOKLES

5 EMPEDOKLES VON ACRAGA

6 PLOTIN

7 EPIKUR

8 HERAKLIT

9 DEMOKRIT

10 SOKRATES

11 ARCHIMEDES

High shot of Greeks jogging onto pitch, kicking balls about etc.

Football Commentator

Let's look at their team. As you'd expect, it's a much more defensive line-up. Plato's in goal, Socrates a front- runner there, and Aristotle as sweeper, Aristotle very much the man in form. One surprise is the inclusion of Archimedes.

An oriental referee, holding a large sandglass, walks down the centre line, flanked by two linesmen with haloes.

Football Commentator

Well here comes the referee, K'ung fu-tsze (Confucius), and his two linesmen, St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. [Referee spots the ball and the captains shake hands.] And as the two skippers come together to shake hands, we're ready for the start of this very exciting final. The referee Mr Confucius checks his sand and... [referee blows his whistle] they're off! [The Germans immediately turn away from the ball, hands on chins in deep contemplation.] Nietzsche and Hegel there. Karl Jaspers number seven on the outside, Wittgenstein there with him. There's Beckenbauer. Schelling's in there, Heidegger covering. Schopenhauer. [Pan to the other end, the Greeks also thinking deeply, occasionally gesticulating.] And now it's the Greeks, Epicurus, Plotinus number six. Aristotle. Empedocles of Acragus and Democratus with him. There's Archimedes. Socrates, there he is, Socrates. Socrates there, going through. [The camera follows Socrates past the ball, still on the centre spot.] There's the ball! There's the ball. And Nietzsche there. Nietzsche, number ten in this German side.

CAPTION:

DEUTSCHLAND - GRIECHENLAND

0 : 0

Football Commentator

Kant moving up on the outside. Schlegel's on the left, the Germans moving very well in these opening moments.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Great football quotes from Monty Python:

"Aye, the Yangtze is an inspiring site for a young goalllie!"

"Tonight's the night I shall be talking about of flu the subject of word association football. This is a technique out a living much used in the practice makes perfect of psychoanalysister and brother and one that has occupied piper the majority rule of my attention squad by the right number one two three four the last five years to the memory."

And then there was the sketch where an overanalytical BBC announcer interviews a somewhat less than eruidte footballer:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

(Two chairs in interview set. Smart interviewer and footballer who is not over bright in blazer.)

Interviewer:From the plastic arts we turn to football. Last night in the Stadium of Light, Jarrow, we witnessed the resuscitation of a great footbailing tradition, when Jarrow United came of age, in a European sense, with an almost Proustian display of modern existentialist football. Virtually annihilating by midfield moral argument the now surely obsolescent catennachio defensive philosophy of Signor Alberto Fanffino. Bologna indeed were a side intellectually out argued by a Jarrow team thrusting and bursting with aggressive Kantian positivism and outstanding in this fine Jarrow team was my man of the match, the arch-thinker, free scheming, scarcely ever to be curbed, midfield coguoscento, Jimmy Buzzard.

Buzzard: Good evening Brian.

Interviewer: Jimmy, at least one ageing football commentator was gladdened last night by the sight of an English footballer breaking free of the limpid tentacles of packed Mediterranean defence.

Buzzard: Good evening Brian.

Interviewer: Were you surprised at the way the Italian ceded midfield dominance so early on in the game?

Buzzard: Well Brian... I'm opening a boutique.

Interviewer: This is of course symptomatic of a new breed of footballer as it is indeed symptomatic of your whole genre of player, is it not?

Buzzard: Good evening Brian.

Interviewer: What I'm getting at, Jimmy, is you seem to have discovered a new concept with a mode in which you dissected the Italian defence, last night.

Buzzard: (pauses for thought) I hit the ball first time and there it was in the back of the net. (smiles and looks round)

Interviewer: Do you think Jarrow will adopt a more defensive posture for the first leg of the next tie in Turkey?

Buzzard: (confidently) I hit the ball first time and there it was in the back of the net.

Interviewer: Yes, yes - but have you any plans for dealing with the free-scoring Turkish forwards?

Buzzard: Well Brian... I'm opening a boutique.

(Cut to undertaker.)

Second Undertaker: And now let's take a look at the state of play in the detective sketch.

(Cut to drawing room. There is an enormous pile of dead policemen from the Agatha Christie Sketch on and around the sofa.)

Constable: Alself me to introlow mybody...

(Inspector shoots him in the head. Caption on Screen: 'CONSTABLES 13 SUPERINTENDENTS 9')

(Cut to four undertakers carrying a coffin up a hill. One of them falters and drops. The otherslower the coffin to the ground, take out a fresh undertaker, put the fallen one in the coffin, and proceed.)

------------------------------------------

And the of course, we haave the wrestling match between the guest commentators arguing over the existence of God:

CAPTION: 'THE EPILOGUE, A QUESTION OF BELIEF'

Interview studio; interviewer in the middle. There is a monsignor in full clerical garb with skull-cap, and opposite him a tweed-suite, old Don figure.

Interviewer Good evening, and welcome once again to the Epilogue. On the programme this evening we have Monsignor Edward Gay, visiting Pastoral Emissary of the Somerset Theological College and author of a number of books about belief, the most recent of which is the best seller 'My God'. And opposite him we have Dr Tom Jack: humanist, broadcaster, lecturer and author of the book 'Hello Sailor'. Tonight, instead of discussing the existence or non-existence of God, they have decided to fight for it. The existence, or non-existence, to be determined by two falls, two submissions, or a knockout. All right boys, let's get to it. Your master of ceremonies for this evening - Mr Arthur Waring.

The partialpants move into a wrestling ring.

MC Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to a three-round contest of the Epilogue. Introducing on my right in the blue corner, appearing for Jehovah - the ever popular Monsignor Eddie Gay. (there are boos from the crowd) And on my left in the red corner - author of the books 'The Problems of Kierkegaard' and 'Hello Sailor' and visiting Professor of Modern Theological Philosophy at the University of East Anglia - from Wigan - Dr Tom Jack! (cheers; gong goes for the start)

CAPTION: 'ROUND 1'

They are real wrestlers. They throw each other about.

Interviewer (commentating) Now Dr Jack's got a flying mare there. A flying mare there, and this is going to be a full body slam. A full body slam, and he's laying it in there, and he's standing back. Well .. there we are leaving the Epilogue for the moment, we'll be bringing you the result of this discussion later on in the programme.

Interviewer Oh my God! (pulls out a revolver and shoots something off-screen)

ANIMATION: We see a cowboy just having been shot. This leads into cartoon film, which include a carnivorous pram and music from Rodin's statue 'The Kiss'. Then a protest march appears carrying banners. Close in on banners which read: End Discrimination:Mice Is Nice; Ho Ho Ho Traps Must Go; Hands Off Mice; Repeal Anti-Mouse Laws Now; Kidderminster Young Methodists Resent Oppression: A Fair Deal For Mice Men.

[redhat]

Hello everyone. Just to let you know that baby redhat arrived this morning

at 2:15 am CST. Probably a future attacking midfielder.

I assure you that despite his mother's remote connection to Scotland, he WILL play

for Canada proudly. Gotta setup that college fund so that while in a U.S. university

he can ... wait for it... "impress the MLS." Gotta get some sleep now. Thanks everyone.

edit: oh yeah... it's a boy ... 7 lbs 8 oz.

[Kurosawa1555362267]

Congratulation.

[Cheeta]

10 fingers, 10 toes and all the bits in-between. It dosen't get any better than that.

Well done! Hey, Jake. Your boys do swim!

Ah sweet memmories. Wee Elf was great during the whole thing. Think the worse thing she said was "Jesus Christ you people!"

[The Beaver]

Redhat and Mrs Redhat, congratulations!! A Sagitarious baby is a great baby to have. (But what the hell do I know?)

[juaninho]

Congrats to both mr. and mrs. redhat and hope all are doing well. I hope to see Canada's future number 8 lacing them up sometime in 2024-26.

[sstackho]

Congratulations, redhat! Start kicking a ball at it. It will soon learn to catch it to stop pain. There's our WC2024 keeper position settled.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

Congratulations, redhat! Start kicking a ball at it. It will soon learn to catch it to stop pain. There's our WC2024 keeper position settled.

...until "it" learns to be out of position to avoid the pain.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

10 fingers, 10 toes and all the bits in-between. It dosen't get any better than that.

Well done! Hey, Jake. Your boys do swim!

Ah sweet memmories. Wee Elf was great during the whole thing. Think the worse thing she said was "Jesus Christ you people!"

I remember saying something like "wow, that was quicker than i thought"...that was 25 years ago and I still have the scars to remember my ill-timed remark!

(congrats to redhat and his significant other!)

[Grizzly]

Congrats Redhat. You may not be a match for Mutu on the pitch but seem to be outscoring him in another sport.

Porn-star Not Impressed With Mutu’s Bed Performances

Adrian Mutu’s life on and off the pitch is in disarray following his ‘mea culpa’ in the cocaine case and now the latest backlash coming from one of his lovers.

With Mourinho criticizing the Romanian player’s on-field performances, all that Mutu needed was to be disapproved in another field: bed. In fact, the porn-star, Laura Andresan, who was involved in the video scandal which included her and the Chelsea player, has declared that Mutu is not a good performer in bed.

“He seems sexy because he is rich,” commented the girl, “But having sex with him was not pleasurable.”

After ruining his football image, now Mutu faces to ruin also his social life image!

[canadiankick97]

Congrats bud!

[canadiankick97]

Congrats bud!

[Soju]

Yeah but pornstars always say that if you don't pay them afterwards, that's why I just avoid them completely.