Borussia Monchengladbach want Imhof...

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

No disrespect, but I think that the players in question are at best borderline EPL players. There are real questions about DeVos's quickness, I am not so sure that he can play regularly or effectively in the EPL. But would note that he was picked up by Wigan in the Second Division as part of a goal of getting into the EPL. So that is in effect a progression. As for Brennan, I was a bit surprised he didn't get picked up by a lower EPL team on the free. But none of the Div 1 teams going up felt that he should be picked up and they would have seen the most of him. It may be that Div 1 is his level. The notion that teams woud ignore quality players simply because of their nationality is one that only conspiracy theorist accept. Lars, for example, went from the A-League to the EPL. He has a lot to learn about keeping goal. And from recent performances, it seems he is indeed learning and quickly.

To be clear.. I never said there was a conspiracy but I am perplexed and this something that warrants some discussion or insight into. How can a guy like Bent ( who was deamed a comparable or better prospect to Stalteri and MCkenna when they played in Malysia in 98 ) have stalled at Plymouth and now I hear rumours that he will be released at the end of this season. While the others have gone on to the highest levels. There must be some explanation.

Again, I cannot think of anyone who has truly progressed in the UK while most of those who have gone to Europe have. That is an incredible coincidence.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

No disrespect, but I think that the players in question are at best borderline EPL players. There are real questions about DeVos's quickness, I am not so sure that he can play regularly or effectively in the EPL. But would note that he was picked up by Wigan in the Second Division as part of a goal of getting into the EPL. So that is in effect a progression. As for Brennan, I was a bit surprised he didn't get picked up by a lower EPL team on the free. But none of the Div 1 teams going up felt that he should be picked up and they would have seen the most of him. It may be that Div 1 is his level. The notion that teams woud ignore quality players simply because of their nationality is one that only conspiracy theorist accept. Lars, for example, went from the A-League to the EPL. He has a lot to learn about keeping goal. And from recent performances, it seems he is indeed learning and quickly.

To be clear.. I never said there was a conspiracy but I am perplexed and this something that warrants some discussion or insight into. How can a guy like Bent ( who was deamed a comparable or better prospect to Stalteri and MCkenna when they played in Malysia in 98 ) have stalled at Plymouth and now I hear rumours that he will be released at the end of this season. While the others have gone on to the highest levels. There must be some explanation.

Again, I cannot think of anyone who has truly progressed in the UK while most of those who have gone to Europe have. That is an incredible coincidence.

[Gian-Luca]

Well, do you think you could qualify the term "progress" any further?

Sure, if you are going to dismiss moving from the PDL (!) to the EPL as not really progressing, your argument becomes stronger, but that sort of movement would be viewed as progress in just about everybody's books.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Well, do you think you could qualify the term "progress" any further?

Sure, if you are going to dismiss moving from the PDL (!) to the EPL as not really progressing, your argument becomes stronger, but that sort of movement would be viewed as progress in just about everybody's books.

again, I still maintain that all the examples provided show that our players have stalled once they got there. Hirshfeld's move from the PDL to the EPL is progression. But where is the progression once he got there? If he is the 1st or 2nd string next year at Spurs or with another EPL or 1st div side, I will buy your argument.

Again, I am not dismissing accomplishment of our players here. I just think that there must be some reason.

[Free kick]

And further to an earlier point from Gordon regarding Brennan. Many of us would view Brennan as very comparable to Imhof. If Imhof ends up in the Bundesliga next year, the how can Brennan still be in the 2nd tier.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

And further to an earlier point from Gordon regarding Brennan. Many of us would view Brennan as very comparable to Imhof. If Imhof ends up in the Bundesliga next year, the how can Brennan still be in the 2nd tier.

Then if Iain Hume ends up at a higher level next year will you abandon this theory? Sometimes, its about being in the right place at the right time and fitting a need. Remember that Bent, DeRosario, McKenna and Hirschfeld all started in Germany and it didn't pan out for them.

[Guest Ed]

I'd have to put in a comment about McKenna. He had a rough time after his debut with Energie Cottbus but as Grizzly pointed out he went to Hearts on quite the transfer fee. Cottbus got great value for him and I would have to think he would have been a big part of their plans if the transfer had not worked out. Rough translation - 'didn't pan out for [him]' is not entirely accurate in his case, although no argument on the others. Nsaliwa also started out in Germany and things didn't pan out for him either. But he luckily got a second kick at the can. And then a 3rd. And then a 4th.

I agree totally with your 2nd sentence.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

Then if Iain Hume ends up at a higher level next year will you abandon this theory?

As I said earlier, Hume will be the Litmus test. Consider that he scored three goals at the WYC, including one versus Spain. He was recognized widely as a tournament standout by being named to one of the all star teams. I will also take a look and keep a copy of the England, side that got eliminated in the group stage and watch for any movement from those players as well. I may include austarlia and Ireland fwds as well since some of their players ply their trade in the same milieu as Hume.

[ditty]

Regarding McKenna, he is one of a bevy of young players offloaded by Eduard Geyer at Cottbus. He's not known as the most patient man when it comes to developing players so Kevin's limited success there and ultimate sale should not be seen as a failure. He was one of a rare few to come through their youth system, which makes his even brief time with the 1st team all the more an accomplishment.

Tam Nsaliwa continues to baffle. We'll see what happens at the end of the season, but I hope he hasn't burnt one bridge too many. He'd look good in Mustangs colors this summer, though:)

[Canuck Oranje]

Generally, I think it is unfair to even consider the progress of McKenna, Nsaliwa, Klukowski, and some of the other younger players in the same light as Radzinski and even Stalteri and Jazic. First, Radzinski was no further advanced than these younger players at the their current stage. I wouldn't consider being left out of the side a few games as not progressing in the case of Nsaliwa. Nsaliwa's current Kicker rating is fine and he has played a considerable number of games at the B-2 level which is quite a high level for a 22 year old. Mckenna's development problem is that he is too good as a striker and ends up there more often than his normal position.

Development paths are not always perfectly linear. Even the best have setbacks. Bergkamp's failure in Italy with Inter Milan is the main reason he ended up with Arsenal. Luis Fabiano (likely to be a big money capture by one of the big European clubs this summer)was a failure with Rennes in 2000/2001 and returned home to Brazil at Sao Paulo FC and didn't assert himself there until the 2002 season during which he turned 22.

[matthew]

I think I'm missing the argument here, but surely Jason DeVos has 'progressed' greatly. Didn't he start with London Lasers? Teenager with local team to Montreal where he had a standout rookie season and was part of the APSL title team (IIRC) moves to Darlington to get his feet wet in the UK, jumps to Dundee and a top-flight league (not the most impressive, but it is top flight) then to an up-and-coming club in a lower division of a better league where he captains them up one division and possibly two.

To me this is *the* path to creating strong national teamers. Get them a start in the A-League, somewhere where they are comfortable, close to home (Stalteri/Pozniak/Hutchinson in Toronto, Ledgerwood/Hirschrfeld, clagary, etc). Once they show promise and have achieved personal success domestically then off to Europe. Get them some playing time somewhere, as good as possible, but somewhere where they will play. There get into a top flight team in a decent league develop (Sweden, Norway, Croatia, Belgium, etc) and then try to transfer to a club in one of the big four leagues. Atiba's on a similar path, Imhof could make the jump from decent league to big four, Hirschfeld missed that smaller club jump before hitting the big time and I think it's to his detriment (though the loans are close).

Even a lot of the guys that went over as teenagers have done similar things - Klukowski at Lille, DeGuzman at OM then on to smaller clubs where they got some time before (hopefully Klukowski's case) jumping to the big time.

cheers,

matthew

[Cheeta]

Interesting topic. Good read.

Never a big Imhof fan. If his play warrants a move to Germany then great stuff. Such a move will of course only challenge him further and add to his growth as a player. Good for him. Good for Canada.

I'm sure his best years are still to come but relating to another recent topic I think last spring I wrote Brennan was going to be our next EPL player and still stand by that, niggly injuries not with standing. So unless Daniel's come along leaps and bounds Canary Jim's got the left wing sown up in my lineups.

P.S. Big Kev should quit Hearts. He's too versatile on a club with a very limited payrole and isn't going to be allowed the focus necessary to develop into whatever role it is which'll carry him into a higher level. A higher level I must add as Mr.McKenna's biggest supporter, I think he is very capable of. He can do it in Scotland, but not as things currently are at Hearts or under Gaffer Levein.

P.S.S. That role is in the back line by the way. Unless he finds a step (hard to do at his age. Sounds funny, but true). A wee bit more throttle, and better acceleration and he could be a pretty good front man.