Have we improved?

[strobe_z]

As we await the apointment of our new head coach, I was thinking back over Holger's years here. Have we improved? Are we a better team than we were?

One thing I hear quite often is that despite recent losses to some pretty quality Euro sides, is that we're better for the experience. Counting back to the Gold Cup 2000, we've played some good sides, Mexico, Colombia, and Korea in the Gold Cup - Brazil, Cameroon and Japan at the Confederations Cup, our recent friendlies against Scotland, Ireland, Switzerland, Czech, Germany, etc.. How much better are we? Is there any difference in the quality of our side from playing those teams?

This actually gets me thinking... when was Canada playing it's best soccer? 1986 World Cup comes to mind... but were we all that skilled? I have no real recollection of that.. so I can't really comment.

[Guest Ed]

No. We've gone from a guaranteed spot in the top 6 CONCACAF to sweating bullets playing teams the likes of Cuba and Haiti. We've got some players playing at a decent level but I would be hard pressed to say our level of soccer as a senior team is better than 1997. We p*ssed and moaned about BL but at least we were in it to the bitter end of qualifying.

[ditty]

I think we're producing more quality players than in the past but the rest of CONCACAF is improving at a greater rate. Like Ed said, we were once a shoe in for the final round of qualifying, now I think it's a roll of the dice at almost any stage of qualifying.

Specifically, we lack creative players and goalscorers. I think that stems largely from a lack of competition at the youth level. We produce some diamonds but we don't produce many and those few elite players need to be playing with and against better players consistently. This is where the lack of a national league becomes a factor.

[Gordon]

I'd say yes, but agree with Ed that it does not show at the senior nats level to date. I think we are better off at the youth levels and that we are in better position to develop more and better soccer players. The level of youth coaching, FREX, has improved across the board significantly. While it may not be any better at the elite levels, where it was probably fairly high, it has improved substantially at the lower levels where, frankly, it does a lot of good. I expect to see us get back to the safe bet for the hex stage, and it may start as early as this time around. I don't think that we can afford to stay wedded to the British old boys style that has plagued us, but I am more optimistic than Ed - in his past posts anyways - that it is on the way out. So, as much as I think Yallop is the best choice, if he can not reach agreement and we bring in someone with a latin or continental (well, not northern) european background I'd be happy. Despite Yallop's past, I think he is too ambitious to revert to the ways of the dinosaur. Hence my comfort with him as first choice.

[Reza]

I would say yes.

If you look at the pre-holger years, our record was not that great either. we never made it past Gold Cup first round and really didn't even come close to a coin toss either.

In qualifying, things were different back then. There were probably 6 quality sides in CONCACAF at any given time and by quality I mean, decent enough to be competing for a world cup spot. That has changed significantly with Costa Rica becoming more consistent, Honduras re-appearing, T&T putting a half decent side together and other nations, while not having a string squad, still managing to play enough together to have cohesion, if nothing else.

I think Canada played much more like a team in the post-Holger years 80% of the times. We still do not have the talent to compete 100% of the time nor do we have the cohesion to play consistent, but I think we did become a better side.

I think the job that Yallop is taking on is a bit easier than the one Holger was taking on and I think with some luck, he could pull off a surprise or two here and there.

[Guest Ed]

You can talk all you want about style, individual talent level, but it's the record that counts boys (I guess the Dutch are the exception there).

I think Ditty hit the nail on the head. We can compete with most nations at the youth level but then we are lapped by a lot of CONCACAF sides when we look at the senior ranks.

I have to be optimistic with the fact that we have some very talented kids coming up in Canada. Club coaching is vastly improved at the elite level for kids under 17. However, a big issue is that the top boys who go to Europe basically grow up as players in a totally PROFESSIONAL environment. I am fearful that we don't know how to "keep them on the farm" so to speak. Best of luck to the new coach in trying to get the best team on the field.

[Guest Ed]

You can talk all you want about style, individual talent level, but it's the record that counts boys (I guess the Dutch are the exception there).

I think Ditty hit the nail on the head. We can compete with most nations at the youth level but then we are lapped by a lot of CONCACAF sides when we look at the senior ranks.

I have to be optimistic with the fact that we have some very talented kids coming up in Canada. Club coaching is vastly improved at the elite level for kids under 17. However, a big issue is that the top boys who go to Europe basically grow up as players in a totally PROFESSIONAL environment. I am fearful that we don't know how to "keep them on the farm" so to speak. Best of luck to the new coach in trying to get the best team on the field.

[ditty]

"However, a big issue is that the top boys who go to Europe basically grow up as players in a totally PROFESSIONAL environment. I am fearful that we don't know how to "keep them on the farm" so to speak"

This is the issue in my opinion and this is where a lack of money kills us. To take Alberta for example, there are usually 2-3 exceptional youngsters in each age group. In the US, these players would be candidates for the training program in Florida or at a minimum would be playing with against similar players in their state. In Canada, these kids remain competing against kids they are head and shoulders above. The alternative is a trial in Europe but let's remember not every kid is a de Guzman or Hargreaves. It takes a special kid, irregardless of soccer skill, to live and compete in a new culture at the age of 16.

Personally, I think we need a national academy set-up where kids get consistent top competition and coaching. But that takes money.

[Crazy_Yank]

Canada is kind of in limbo right now. The old guard is still hanging on, but the new guard are better players. The Canadian coaching staff seems unsure of how to move out the old guard.

[Andrew W]

With a shovel.

[Gian-Luca]

It depends on how you want to answer the question. From a quality of play point-of-view, there's no question whatsoever that Canada has improved. All you have to do is compare a home match from 1997 where we couldn't even keep possession in our own park to today's standards where we can pass the ball around against quality Euro sides in their home park - and I've got the videotaped evidence to prove it.

But results wise we haven't improved recently. The vast majority of the poor results in the past 3 years have been completely insignificant, as they've largely been Euro-friendlies on the road, and how much can you take seriously the results of a team that never plays at home but will be able to once the important matches start up again?

But there have been other disappointments that did count (ie. Cuba). The Cubans have normally played us tough, despite almost always being outplayed (it was a 2-2 draw with Cuba that prevented us from making the 1982 World Cup) so maybe that hasn't changed all that much. But I don't think you can examine results by themselves when looking at the overall picture - by that criteria, Argentina's team has gone into the toilet since their 1990 run to the World Cup final, in which they won all of 2 matches out of 7 yet still finished 2nd, while they have lost in the 2nd round, Q-F & first round since then - yet there's no doubt in my mind that the 94, 98 & 2002 squads could have smacked the crack out of the Argentinian squad of 1990 if the sides were ever to have played each other.

The other thing to mention is what Reza alluded to - other teams in Concacaf have started to take themselves seriously in the sport, getting more money & more organized. There's nothing Canada can do about the amount of money the US is pouring into their program, nor was there anything we could do about Jamaica using the rules to transform themselves into England's B team. These problems didn't exist in the "good ol' days".

I guess we'll have a clearer indication in the following year. In 2004, let's see something we haven't seen in about a decade - a full-strength Canadian squad occasionally playing at home - and then we can answer with the question with more authority.

[nedved9]

<div align="left"></div id="left">Oh hell yes have improved since 97, Back then we could not even register a shot on goal never mind score. We finally have players that are making an impact in Europe. guys like De guzman, Staltieri, and Hume.Even at youth level we are improving. We may reach 1/4 final in the World U20 that is something we have not achieved ever, at least in the mens division. Not bad for a nation that has no real Soccer stadium, No pro league, And no real following. We have Holger to thank, maybe not now, but when we improve, we will all thank him.

Call me crazy. I have this hunch. That Canada will be playing some Soccer in the Summer of 2006, in Germany.

Let us support our Boys.

[The Ref]

I see there are still some Holger die-hards left. That is ok, with the passage of time we tend to forget the bad and remember the good. To answer the initial question, I too believe that we have improved at all age levels. Improved in that we play better passing and more organized and rely less on the old style. We can't get results because by changing our style I believe that we have run into the problem of skills, where our players are not as skilled in the passing and controlling game as our opponents are. That is ok too, I think we needed to take a couple of steps backwards before moving forward with confidence. Things like more games, more team stability, more tryouts, perhaps a Canadian League, a good coach, etc. will all contribute to continued improvement. I would like to believe that all our younger players can now see that the future success will come from ball skills rather that kicking power alone.