Canuck Oranje Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 My general thoughts first are if we rely on this lineup in WCQ, we aren't going far. The game was ugly. I wasn't that impressed with the Finnish team. There were some good individual plays but they would have been crushed by Germany or England or Holland. Let's also be honest. The game was over at half time.. It was a kick around after that. I am hoping this was just a one time reunion party and now we can get onto business. I felt badly for Stalteri and Radzinski. Stalteri because he was trying to play his man tight but was left exposed by his defensive partners (little or no support). Radzinski because he rarely got the ball in a position where he could do anything. While Craig Forrest did make some criticisms of the Defence, we are still too polite about our performance. Terms like "unlucky first touch" have to be expunged from our lexicon. Really what that means is that the player is lacking ball skill. I think our worst fears were realized in this game.. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to anticipate the defensive performance. It will now be interesting to see what new controversy arises out to this game. Reunions are fun until someone is seen to be taking something that is perceived to belong to someone else. Except in this case we are talking about starting positions and National team caps instead of spouses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Well, it being thanksgiving weekend best to put forward a few thoughts before going all negative on everyone. I'm thankfull for; Colin Miller cooking his own goose. Idiot. During the anthems when the camera was panning down the touch line I was thinking uh-oh. When we got to see the formation Miller was intent on using I got up, cannoned back my beer, and got TWO more lagers from the refrigerator. Morgan Quarrey trying to make us all feel better by explaining DeGuzman's absence as a managerial decision. Another dart thrown Mr. Miller's way. Bircham for DeGuzman? Whoaaa. Thanks, Mr. Quarrey. We still have hope. It was Pat Onstad in net that first half and not me. Ian Hume's showing in the 2nd half. Can't say he realy made an imprint but to see him running around with his head up like that is very encouraging. Blind linesmen. Paul Stalteri playing right fullback. Well, that's enough of that. Back to central mid. with you. The Wee Elf. She's quit smoking but was more than a little patient with me yesteday. Dose seem I owe someone dinner though.... Sportsnet for bring us that match. No, realy. Excepting the no-mind fu'k who let the ticker show the final score at the bottom of the screen about 5-10 minutes in. Seem to have caught it though, too late, as I don't remember seeing it again. The discovery that an attacking midfielder would do a world of good when Toffee and DeRosario are your strikers. Looked good with three men out there. Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Star Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Right! The finnish side wasn't at it's best. Everytime Litmanen doesn't bother to show his face in the squad, the preformance sinks to it's bottom! The thing is.. youngster's like Tainio and Väyrynen are, and have to preform their best, or else! And they are actually growing into it!!! The game yesterday was sort of a vacation back home for most of the finnish players, a time to visit grandma and old friends. The thing is, a finnish side without Litmanen is like curch without Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Bahhh. Too many changes. Too many changes that didn't make any damn scense. It's like Miller did everything to hide our best quality. Midfield was a shambles. Defense was a shambles. Radz. and Pesch. unsupported and the wrong pairing against that defense. Complete rubbish front to back. Defence playing scared is a sure formula for defeat. Your lads were running hard! Forssell and Tainio had their ears pinned back and were more than keen to run up the score start to finnish (Ha, I made a funny). Nice goal Kolkka. Kinda expect that of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joppe Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 "I wasn't that impressed with the Finnish team. There were some good individual plays but they would have been crushed by Germany or England or Holland" Yeah, right. Here is a qualifying round to world cup 2002. Group 9 Teams Pld W D L GS GA Pts England 8 5 2 1 16 6 17 Germany 8 5 2 1 14 10 17 Finland 8 3 3 2 12 7 12 Greece 8 2 1 5 7 17 7 Albania 8 1 0 7 5 14 3 Pld: Matches played W: Won D:Drawn L: Lost GS: Goals for GA: Goals against Pts: Points Finland 2 - 1 Albania Germany 2 - 0 Greece England 0 - 1 Germany Greece 1 - 0 Finland Albania 2 - 0 Greece Finland 0 - 0 England England 2 - 1 Finland Germany 2 - 1 Albania Albania 1 - 3 England Greece 2 - 4 Germany Finland 2 - 2 Germany Greece 1 - 0 Albania Albania 0 - 2 Germany Greece 0 - 2 England Albania 0 - 2 Finland Germany 1 - 5 England Finland 5 - 1 Greece England 2 - 0 Albania England 2 - 2 Greece Germany 0 - 0 Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Star Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Yes some credits to Kolkka, otherwise the finnish squad would get following grades -> Jääskeläinen (the goalie!) (Bolton, Eng) Didn't have much to do, expect the "Hyypiä" incident Hyypiä (Liverpool, Eng) Was on vacation Saarinen (1860 Munich, Ger) The usual weakest point of the finnish defence line, played an OK game Heikkinen (Aberdeen, Sco) A new man in the squad. Nothing more, nothing less Pasanen (Ajax, Ned) Did nothing special Väyrynen (Heerenveen, Ned) The youngster played rather well. Tainio (Auxerre, Fra) Was definately too much for the canucks. Nurmela (Kaiserslautern, Ger) "Zidane" of the small town called Oulu near Lappland has lately got an awful amount of critics. He did gis best game in years against Canada, and yet again it doesn't count. Kolkka (Borussia Mönchengladbach, Ger) Was definately the man of the match, ask the canadian defenders! Alexei Eremenko Junior (HJK, Fin) First timer. Was way behind his team mates, all the time Forssell (Birmingham, Eng) One goal, several other missed chances. Didn't preform his best. Subs: Kottila (the moose) (HJK, Fin) Don't make me laugh! This one should not attend any national team duties. Riihilahti (Crystal Palace, Eng) Bright kid with a sense of humour, not a football palyer. Sjölund (Djurgården, Swe) One great game for DIF and suddenly he is in the national team. Don't know why? Do you? Kuivasto (Djurgården, Swe) A rock solid defenceman. Not a star but does his job. Kopteff (Viking, Nor) Helikopteff, a "super sub" This time he was just a sub! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Maybe not the best argument of Finnish quality that, Joppe. Somehow I remember there was a lot of tears and crying in both England and especialy Germany during WCQ. A lot. And unless I'm reading those tables wrong, and given my education that's not only possible but probable, Finland won 7 of their 12 points against sides with nothing to play for. Being eliminated or qualified by that time. Still, we never even got to the final round of qualifying. Never even got close. Bloody disaster. Thought Forssell was more than a handfull for anyone on the back line. I don't think I've seen a player who "climbs" so much in years. Very crafty. Must have been pissing Big Kev off to no end. Had Watson maybe not paniced, but certainly very respectful for the last 80 minutes of the match. No quotes about putting speedier players on there ass' today I'll bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I think you are dismissing the performance of Finland, as well as Canada in the 2nd half all too easily. Finland doesn't get crushed easily by anyone (having seen several of their Euro qualifying matches I knew ahead of time they were a quality side). Part of the problem in the backline for Canada was lack of talent, but lack of familiarity with each other was even a bigger problem. It shouldn't be a surprise we looked so disorganzied back there in the first half. Keep in mind as well that our team was stronger in the 2nd half not just because of who the Fins took off, but who we brought on. Hirshfeld & De Rosario should be starting - our squad is stronger with them, than without. All in all there were arguably 5 to 7 players that should be starting for Canada who didn't in this match - two injured (Brennan & De Vos), 2 not called (De Guzman & Klukowski), and 3 sitting on the bench (Nsaliwa, De Rosario & Hirshfeld). Now if we can just ensure the new coach will also see it that way.............. Biggest (only?) compliment to Miller was that I like the never-say-die attitude of the team in the 2nd half for what was, after all, a completely meaningless friendly. That's never a bad attitude to have, & can certainly make up for other shortcomings. I hope we'll see more of that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 I am sure you would agree though that the Finnish team that played then played better than the one that played yesterday. quote:Originally posted by joppe "I wasn't that impressed with the Finnish team. There were some good individual plays but they would have been crushed by Germany or England or Holland" Yeah, right. Here is a qualifying round to world cup 2002. Group 9 Teams Pld W D L GS GA Pts England 8 5 2 1 16 6 17 Germany 8 5 2 1 14 10 17 Finland 8 3 3 2 12 7 12 Greece 8 2 1 5 7 17 7 Albania 8 1 0 7 5 14 3 Pld: Matches played W: Won D:Drawn L: Lost GS: Goals for GA: Goals against Pts: Points Finland 2 - 1 Albania Germany 2 - 0 Greece England 0 - 1 Germany Greece 1 - 0 Finland Albania 2 - 0 Greece Finland 0 - 0 England England 2 - 1 Finland Germany 2 - 1 Albania Albania 1 - 3 England Greece 2 - 4 Germany Finland 2 - 2 Germany Greece 1 - 0 Albania Albania 0 - 2 Germany Greece 0 - 2 England Albania 0 - 2 Finland Germany 1 - 5 England Finland 5 - 1 Greece England 2 - 0 Albania England 2 - 2 Greece Germany 0 - 0 Finland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Notice, by the way, that Finland's first goal came when McKenna was up the field due to a Canadian free kick in the box. Finland came charging down the field with Hastings & Watson left to "deal" with Forsell. And guess what happened..... When De Vos comes back, bye bye Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 On the subject of Watson... Saw him wearing the Captain's armband. Had to look twice. Seemed odd. Guy sulks his sorry arse into retirement, dosen't play for the national side for getting onto 3 years (?) and comes back to Captain the squad. Not exactly the right sort of player role model I'd say. Maybe he was made Captain for his mouth. Who knows? Me, I'd have given it to Diesel whether he wanted it or no. Might be just the sort of responsability Paul needs. Force him into accepting his destiny. Good soilder that Diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 I don't disagree with your comments. However, I don't think we should overstate the positive either. The Finnish team I doubt was at its best, given where some of their players play and with Litmanen missing. I am still optimistic about McKenna but he was rusty back there. As for Hastings, Watson, Jazic, Bircham and Pesch, I hope their starting was not a condition or their participation on the National side. If it was, I think it is time to thank them for their time and move on.. They would all be useful squad players but to be given starting roles??? Our young players may be green but they have far more talent. Having said that, I have this nagging suspicion that Miller may not have had full control over the naming of the starting lineup. I think about all the comments shortly after Holger's departure coming from players returning to the squad. George Gross's column is still causing unsettling thoughts as well. Finally, talent has a way of overcoming disorganization. Just look at the Brazilians. No one has ever accused them of being overly organized. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I think you are dismissing the performance of Finland, as well as Canada in the 2nd half all too easily. Finland doesn't get crushed easily by anyone (having seen several of their Euro qualifying matches I knew ahead of time they were a quality side). Part of the problem in the backline for Canada was lack of talent, but lack of familiarity with each other was even a bigger problem. It shouldn't be a surprise we looked so disorganzied back there in the first half. Keep in mind as well that our team was stronger in the 2nd half not just because of who the Fins took off, but who we brought on. Hirshfeld & De Rosario should be starting - our squad is stronger with them, than without. All in all there were arguably 5 to 7 players that should be starting for Canada who didn't in this match - two injured (Brennan & De Vos), 2 not called (De Guzman & Klukowski), and 3 sitting on the bench (Nsaliwa, De Rosario & Hirshfeld). Now if we can just ensure the new coach will also see it that way.............. Biggest (only?) compliment to Miller was that I like the never-say-die attitude of the team in the 2nd half for what was, after all, a completely meaningless friendly. That's never a bad attitude to have, & can certainly make up for other shortcomings. I hope we'll see more of that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 the morning after i am ticked off because for some reason my tape only had enough room for the women's game and not the men's. knew i shouldn't have taped that damn women's game. (i don't put much credence to the women's game - i can take the punches now). also ticked off, i have been watching sportsnet and the score pretty much non-stop (other than sleep and shower) since i got home and all i've seen are baseball and hockey highlights. god, the media in this country is clueless. if a men's basketball, hockey, or even baseball team played they'd show the highlights twice every 15 minutes. hell, they even show curling and lacrosse more often. f**kin' joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Star Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I don't know how famillar Jari Litmanen is to you, one thing for sure is, neither Forssell nor Radzinski or any other player from our squads would fit into his boots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I'm not really convinced of the merits of comparing Canada to Brazil in soccer, but when was the last time the Brazilian team took 3 months off in between games & then came up with an entirely new back-four? I agree with getting Hastings & Watson out of there as starters, but even so I think its unrealistic to expect any back four to click as well as they possibly can on their first (and hopefully last) outing together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 I saw him play at lot at Ajax. I don't know how he his now but he was world class back then and I am sure he would still be the controlling influence in your team.. quote:Originally posted by Northern Star I don't know how fammillar Jari Litmanen is to you, one thing for sure is, neither Forssell nor Radzinski or any other player from our squads would fit into his boots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 Sorry for the Brazilian references. I am leaving for futbol heaven in 10 days.. But my only point was that better organization will only cover for lack of quality to a point. In fact my talent comments were originally more directed at the midfield. Organization is much more important in the back. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I'm not really convinced of the merits of comparing Canada to Brazil in soccer, but when was the last time the Brazilian team took 3 months off in between games & then came up with an entirely new back-four? I agree with getting Hastings & Watson out of there as starters, but even so I think its unrealistic to expect any back four to click as well as they possibly can on their first (and hopefully last) outing together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Think Forssell's future is very bright. Very, very bright. Pretty big boots to fill, though. Got to see a lot of Ajax on television not so long ago. Like Dutch football. Like Litmanen. Think the clocks starting to tick for him and Radz. both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Star Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 You are propably right, time is running a bit too fast for Litmanen but still there isn't a single player form both our squads that could even be compared to him (neither Litmanen -95 nor Litmanen -03)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Northern Star I don't know how famillar Jari Litmanen is to you, one thing for sure is, neither Forssell nor Radzinski or any other player from our squads would fit into his boots! You are right on this one. His boots are filled with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Star Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 And oh' you're funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Northern Star I don't know how famillar Jari Litmanen is to you, one thing for sure is, neither Forssell nor Radzinski or any other player from our squads would fit into his boots! Litmanen is now a mediocre player who has been past his prime for at least four years. I don't know why you guys are crying about him, he is an old glory, name a stadium after him if you really want. I watched Jari for a year at Barça and simply put, he was not the kind of player who could make an impact on a big club, which Ajax, by the way, is not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joppe Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 "I am sure you would agree though that the Finnish team that played then played better than the one that played yesterday." Yes, I agree that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by joppe "I am sure you would agree though that the Finnish team that played then played better than the one that played yesterday." Ya for sure. Look, I'd never underestimate the Finland squad while PLAYING IN FINLAND. I've always known that they would be tough as I've seen the highlights of Finland-Portugal before WC2002 where Portugal was supremely embarrassed (4-0?)in Portugal. So playing a Canadian squad that's practically new and not having our best is mainly for experimental purposes for our coach (who's not even our coach). Losing 3-2 is not really a negative against a strong squad like Finland. The second half showed that we have some offensive grit and that we have some good players in Radzinski and De Rosario. I think the second half was a better effort than the Germany game or even the Scotland game. Finland was quite lucky that Canada did not play its bunker-style boring defence that was a common feature with Holger's teams in GC2000 and WCQ2000. Imagine a 5-4-1 formation the last time Canada played in Azteca. [:0] Nobody would want to see that. Canada played to score and tried to play with some possession in most instances. So it is not surprising that Canada lost to a good, talented Finland team with its EPL and Bundesliga players, while Canadian players (which includes A-League, and players that are not even playing with the clubs' first team)trained only two days prior. The game was an excellent showcase of all the areas we can work on (yes, there's a lot), as well as some of the strengths of the team. The challenges are exciting for WCQ. What is surprising to me is, why are you Finns still on this Canadian board? [}] Your comments WERE welcome and now it's time concentrate to getting to Germany in '06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Sigma, I'll send it your way if you want. If no one else has stepped up to the plate I'll send you an e-mail tomorrow and get your address, cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.