neil21 Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 improving as a result of the GC competition? How many spots can we move up with a good show, given that (barring CUBA)they're all pretty much ranked higher than us. My prediction is... we make the semis and our ranking improves by 12 places PS... catch the girls going wild at McGill Stadium, as our Women's WC team warms up against a battering Brazil team (remember their U-19s? What a bunch of bruising bitches!) July 17 (or is it 18th... anyway...) Go Impact - Go Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I don't know about the overall FIFA ranking, but I think Canada should be ranked as 5th or 6th best in concacaf. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Really? Who, besides U.S.A., Mexico and Costa Rica do you rate above us? Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Honduras definitely. And until we beat them in some real games, Jamaica and T&T. I don't see how we deserve better than 7th place as we did not make it to the final six in CONCACAF during last WC qualifying. And please don't trot out our GC results, because they have bugger all to do with the big show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I agree totally Ed. On paper we might have more talent and potential than some of the others, but that great talent on paper doesn't play together very often on the grass (for a number of reasons). So until the 11 guys with Canada on their jerseys beat the 11 guys from Jamaica or Honduras or T&T, I'm not prepared to rank our national team any higher than seventh either. Blair quote:Originally posted by Ed Honduras definitely. And until we beat them in some real games, Jamaica and T&T. I don't see how we deserve better than 7th place as we did not make it to the final six in CONCACAF during last WC qualifying. And please don't trot out our GC results, because they have bugger all to do with the big show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ed And please don't trot out our GC results, because they have bugger all to do with the big show. Our Confederation Championship has nothing to do with "the big show"? Funny, I thought it did count in the grand scheme of things. But come to think of it, France really wasn't all that great after the '98 World Cup, so I suppose that their Euro 2000 triumph didn't mean a thing. Colombia don't deserve any accolades for their Copa win, either.[}] Until we as fans start taking the Gold Cup seriously, nobody will. I'm glad you're in the minority, Ed. The international calendar is ongoing. Although the World Cup is the showpiece, the other competitions must be taken into account. I put us 4th. And depending on our showing in Boston, we may just creep up to 3rd. Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 As evidenced by the billions watching the Confederations Cup in France?? Give me a break. When countries send 2ND RATE teams routinely, it is not the same as WC qualifying. If you are convinced that is the case, so be it. I am all for us doing well in the GC, but don't try to tell me we are the 3rd best in the region. And who said I was in the minority?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 The top 3 teams in the Gold Cup (U.S.A., Costa Rica and Mexico) are taking the tournament seriously. (out-of-confederation invites don't count, it's not their tournament). If we beat them to the title, that counts for something. T&T couldn't even qualify for this tourney...they're overrated because Warner is the President of their federation. I'm surprised he didn't get them in as a special invite. Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ed And who said I was in the minority?? Seems like most people on this board take the Gold Cup seriously. That would put you in the minority on this occasion. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to get into a mud-slinging match with you, just having a friendly disagreement... Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow Really? Who, besides U.S.A., Mexico and Costa Rica do you rate above us? Mimglow, Ottawa Honduras, and Jamaica. Both of those countries have shown better results than Canada. The Gold Cup does count for something, but I put a lot more weight in world cup qualifying. It's not a dis against Canada. I enjoy discussing this game with "y'all" too much to troll in your forum. It's just my opinion. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow I put us 4th. And depending on our showing in Boston, we may just creep up to 3rd. Mimglow, Ottawa I don't agree with this. The 3 top programs in concacaf are better than Canada. They have superior squad depth, financial backing, better players, and good domestic leagues. A good run in the Gold Cup won't make up for all that. Canada does have a shot at 2006, but it will take a few years of good results to overtake one of the top 3. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank Honduras, and Jamaica. Both of those countries have shown better results than Canada. The Gold Cup does count for something, but I put a lot more weight in world cup qualifying. It's not a dis against Canada. I enjoy discussing this game with "y'all" too much to troll in your forum. It's just my opinion. I suppose we'll see in the coming year. But I'm pretty confident about my assertions. Outside opinion is always interesting, and valued. [^] Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow I suppose we'll see in the coming year. But I'm pretty confident about my assertions. Outside opinion is always interesting, and valued. [^] Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine I think you should have faith in your boys and fans should expect their sides to do well. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ed Honduras definitely. And until we beat them in some real games, Jamaica and T&T. I don't see how we deserve better than 7th place as we did not make it to the final six in CONCACAF during last WC qualifying. And please don't trot out our GC results, because they have bugger all to do with the big show. Mosty agree withyou Ed. Although I "suspect" our full team is on the verge of breaking into the top three and staying there for the next 10-12 years, we have never had out "full team" together, and have done diddly for some time now. US, Mexico, CR and Honduras definitely deserve a higher rating. Jamaica and T & T are a little more subjective as they have done diddly since the hex, but at least they got to the hex, and one can not walk away from a 4-0 thrashing too easily. I don't think T & T could beat us today but they deserve credit for beating us when it counted. The opinions expressed above are just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Right now, I agree, that Costa Rica deserves to be included in a top three with Mexico and the USA. Depending on current form, I would say that there are four teams that have a realistic shot at competing against them. These would be Honduras, Jamaica, Trinidad and us. All four are capable of good and horrible results and all four tend to be inconsistent. These would form the top seven in CONCACAF. I think that Guatemala, Cuba, El Salvador, Panama and Martinique are a step down overall, but are capable of competing on any given night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 While I see the point that Ed & Grasshopper have made, I don't quite fully agree with placing so much emphasis on getting into the hex for 2001. The matches played to get into the hex were held in the summer of 2000, which is quite a few years ago now. T&T have gone into the tank since then. I can't see the argument that they should still be "ranked" (and I don't mean FIFA rankings) ahead of us because of a match held a few years ago, when so much has changed with each squad in the past three years - if we are talking about current ratings of the squad is has to be based on more recent criteria. By the way, if you were to rank teams in theory based on their best possible starting 11, I think Canada would challenge for the top 3 quite easily. But that's an argument I'll have to resume after my trip to Boston. Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Well, those matches were some time ago as you said. However, it's a bit optimistic to say we are top 3 or 4 in our region. I'll grant you the fact that T&T have dropped in form, but until we are playing full squad games against our CONCACAF opponents, it's quite the stretch to say we are in the top 5. I expect to be and we should be as we have more players at a higher level in Europe and elsewhere than at any time in the last 10 years or so. We'll see. Cheer the boys on in Boston. I think some surgical masks would make our Canuck fans very recognizable. Would hurt the singing of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ed Cheer the boys on in Boston. I think some surgical masks would make our Canuck fans very recognizable. Would hurt the singing of course. That's hilarious...I'll consider it! [] Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ You are the witness of change And to counteract We gotta take the power back -Rage Against The Machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Ed Honduras definitely. And until we beat them in some real games, Jamaica and T&T. I don't see how we deserve better than 7th place as we did not make it to the final six in CONCACAF during last WC qualifying. And please don't trot out our GC results, because they have bugger all to do with the big show. Three out of four there Ed, and that isn't too bad. I think GC play (and results) are hugely important to our "supporting members" on the pitch, not so much to those names most of us would regularily pencil into specific possitions but those who might do most of their time on the sub's bench or start in place of injured regulars. This tourny's likely to decide who's going to patrol the crease during WCQ next year, Grampa Pat or Lily White Lars and it may not get much more important than that. P.S. What Gordon wrote above, dead on. Except insert a wee skull & crossbones nexts to every "T & T" keyed in. Fargin eyz'oles! "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I'm not going as far as saying we are in the top 3 at the moment (hypothetical best starting 11 on paper aside - but hypothetical doesn't really matter at the moment) - and sadly with us now basically bringing a B team to this Gold Cup (with Klukowski gone, there are now 7 players in the current player pool missing that I would have in my ideal starting 11, enough to downgrade to "B" team IMO) we can't really say how indicative any success or lack thereof at this Gold Cup will be - except that if we do well once again it has to be a good sign for our squad depth. And yes, we'll be cheering.......... Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I'm not going as far as saying we are in the top 3 at the moment (hypothetical best starting 11 on paper aside - but hypothetical doesn't really matter at the moment) - and sadly with us now basically bringing a B team to this Gold Cup (with Klukowski gone, there are now 7 players in the current player pool missing that I would have in my ideal starting 11, enough to downgrade to "B" team IMO) we can't really say how indicative any success or lack thereof at this Gold Cup will be - except that if we do well once again it has to be a good sign for our squad depth. And yes, we'll be cheering.......... Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977) Getting the 1st team out for a match would be a wonderful dream. I'd be happy at this point to see a "Starting 8" come out together. Ug.[xx(] "Minority of one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 In my opinion Canada is several (5-7) years away from being a top 3 concacaf side. Without a quality professional league I don't think this is possible. I don't think some of you guys realize the ammount of work it takes. Canada reminds me a lot of the early 90's US teams. 2 or 3 truly class players, surrounded by a bunch of guys just there to make up the numbers. Stalteri, DeGuzman, and Radzinski are class players. The problem lies with their supporting cast, which is made up of A-league, lower European division, and Scandanavian based players. The A-league can't produce international level players, even at the concacaf level. The quality of play isn't good enough yet. Having most of your squad based in Europe prevents your national team from playing enough matches to truly gel. I think that's why Canada's best results have come in the Gold Cup. The team actually had time to gel a bit. I believe the Gold Cup is the reason the US did so well at the world cup. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca By the way, if you were to rank teams in theory based on their best possible starting 11, I think Canada would challenge for the top 3 quite easily. But that's an argument I'll have to resume after my trip to Boston. Teams aren't ranked based on theory. They are ranked based on results. Canada doesn't have the results that suggest they are the third best team in concacaf. Even with their best 11 I don't think they'd "challenge for the top 3 quite easily". I consider the US, Mexico, and Costa Rica to be roughly the same level. You could make a solid argument that any one of those 3 teams is the best in concacaf. Canada is not on that level. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Crazy Yank, Q: What happened last time Canada played the US in a full “A” match? A: The game was tied 0-0 after 90 minutes, and the US won in shootouts. Q: Over the last two Gold Cups, which CONCACAF country has the best record? A: Canada. They beat the likes of T&T, Colombia and South Korea. We accomplished both with a starting eleven that is significantly inferior to our current best 11!! We also did it without the advantage of playing at home or “soft scheduling” that limited our travel. "A pretty move, for the love of God." Eduardo Galeano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank In my opinion Canada is several (5-7) years away from being a top 3 concacaf side. Without a quality professional league I don't think this is possible. I don't think some of you guys realize the ammount of work it takes. Canada reminds me a lot of the early 90's US teams. 2 or 3 truly class players, surrounded by a bunch of guys just there to make up the numbers. Stalteri, DeGuzman, and Radzinski are class players. The problem lies with their supporting cast, which is made up of A-league, lower European division, and Scandanavian based players. The A-league can't produce international level players, even at the concacaf level. The quality of play isn't good enough yet. Having most of your squad based in Europe prevents your national team from playing enough matches to truly gel. I think that's why Canada's best results have come in the Gold Cup. The team actually had time to gel a bit. I believe the Gold Cup is the reason the US did so well at the world cup. "Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda Time will tell of course. We haven't done anything on the field yet. But there is no such thing as a top 3 in CONCACAF. Never has been. There is a top 1, in Mexico (have done it consistently), a budding 2 in the US (starting to do it consistently), and then we have a series of ebbs and flows: Costa Rica has it happening now, Jamaica last time (1998), and Canada in '94 (but only two could go). Top three is a breeze. There ain't no 5-7 years involved. The opinions expressed above are just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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