Its High Time for a Head Shake at the CSA

[CoachRich]

One of the best things the Canadian NT programs (players and families) could do is to have like the US NT's a Uniform Player Agreement and Collective Bargaining Agreement. It's my understanding for the US WNT that one part of this is for the USSF to supply a nursery facility with caregivers for long training camps in the US or nannies for trips. The last Olympics training camp they had a nursery for the WNT moms babies/kids. Yes, the US has more money but they do talk as one voice with their UPA and the CBA.

[Soccerpro]

Let us assume the CSA was to provide one tutor on staff for the highschool kids when they are at national team camp or at competitions. What subject, bearing in mind that most qualified schoolteachers tend to specialise? Unrealistic to expect CSA to cover all the bases. Then again there is always distance education, but that requires self discipline on the part of the kid.

I am flabbergasted that there are parents here who are surprised at the lack of academic support for their kids from the CSA. What did you realistically expect? Did you not ask any questions at the outset or do some research before letting your kid commit themselves then complain when you did find out but only after your kid became involved? Nevermind the CSA needing a head shake, I am shaking my head right now at the foregoing!

I'm with Richard on this one. It's up to the parents and kids to know school comes first and to plan accordingly to confront the challange. Sure it'd be nice if the CSA provided tutors, but there's a list of lots of things that we wish the CSA could provide, but they can't/ or won't. Saying the opportunity to participate in these teams was too good to pass up for these girls and so it's not their fault for struggling is called avoiding responsibility. Ask any student athlete in university. Many of those students are only just slightly older than the girls on these youth teams. Many kids play sports, hold down nearly full time jobs and go to school, it's all about priorities.

[Richard]

Richard, based on your assertions throughout this thread, that those who struggle academically should stay home, do you propose then, that we only have straight A students or rich kids whose parents can afford private tutors, represent our country at the youth levels?

I think it is important to put in perspective the fact that players are invited to participate in the national team program, nobody can be or is required to be there no matter what words are used to describe the process. If a player/parents cannot afford it either financially or academically they are at liberty to politely decline the invitation. We would all love to see the CSA provide childcare and personal tutors for all the students plus other benefits in their programs but we all know full well this doesn't and likely won't happen for a long time yet. With the cost of playing soccer climbing dramatically there are disadvantaged kids whose parents can no longer afford participation even at club level. I sympathise but there are some things I would really, really like to do but I simply cannot afford them. Sometimes hard choices have to be made in the real world.

[Vic]

We can't even give our teams the bloody basics in terms of the sport and people want us to take our minimal funds and hire tutors? And what? Fire the coach to pay for it?

I'm also a lot more worried about the millions of kids who don't have choices and are dying from aids, world hunger, criminal gangs, cancer and a billion other better causes out there. Committing to a national program is a commitment that requires an enormous sacrifice regardless what your marks/life-goals are. It's an incredible honour to play for your country and if you have other commitments in the way that are more important to you then that say's all that needs to be said.

[The Ref]

We can't even give our teams the bloody basics in terms of the sport and people want us to take our minimal funds and hire tutors? And what? Fire the coach to pay for it?

I'm also a lot more worried about the millions of kids who don't have choices and are dying from aids, world hunger, criminal gangs, cancer and a billion other better causes out there. Committing to a national program is a commitment that requires an enormous sacrifice regardless what your marks/life-goals are. It's an incredible honour to play for your country and if you have other commitments in the way that are more important to you then that say's all that needs to be said.

I can turn your argument around and say the same about the CSA. If you can't run a program as it should, then don't run it!

[Jacko]

I can turn your argument around and say the same about the CSA. If you can't run a program as it should, then don't run it!

Ref, you have hit the nail on the head with those two succinct sentences!!!! Well done!!!!

[Jacko]

We can't even give our teams the bloody basics in terms of the sport and people want us to take our minimal funds and hire tutors? And what? Fire the coach to pay for it?

I'm also a lot more worried about the millions of kids who don't have choices and are dying from aids, world hunger, criminal gangs, cancer and a billion other better causes out there. Committing to a national program is a commitment that requires an enormous sacrifice regardless what your marks/life-goals are. It's an incredible honour to play for your country and if you have other commitments in the way that are more important to you then that say's all that needs to be said.

Ah, I see. So now education is just "another committment in the way" like a job or boyfriend or partying for these girls. Hmmmmmmmm........

[Vic]

It's convenient for your simple way of thinking but that's not what I said at all. There are plenty of kids who have straight A's in our programs and there are kids who prefer to spend their time doing other things. Committing to a national program in any sport is a serious time commitment. That means sacrifice, time-management, maturity and responsibility.

Ref, if you follow the best programs in the world running a program the way it should be run takes about five million dollars a year. Dozens of people have been trying for 25 years to get even the tiniest fractions of that money and come up empty. It ain't coming. We have $400k all-inclusive for everything and everyone in the entire pool for 12 months. Should we pull the plug? And do you want to sit down with the kids who do commit their entire lives and have great marks (as well as the ones who care more about soccer than their marks) and tell them all to go home?

[The Ref]

If we run half ass programs we get half ass results. So why are we complaining when it appears we are short 4.5 million dollars.

[Jacko]

It's convenient for your simple way of thinking but that's not what I said at all. There are plenty of kids who have straight A's in our programs and there are kids who prefer to spend their time doing other things. Committing to a national program in any sport is a serious time commitment. That means sacrifice, time-management, maturity and responsibility.

Ref, if you follow the best programs in the world running a program the way it should be run takes about five million dollars a year. Dozens of people have been trying for 25 years to get even the tiniest fractions of that money and come up empty. It ain't coming. We have $400k all-inclusive for everything and everyone in the entire pool for 12 months. Should we pull the plug? And do you want to sit down with the kids who do commit their entire lives and have great marks (as well as the ones who care more about soccer than their marks) and tell them all to go home?

I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but at $400K you aren't even in the ballpark.

For your elucidation and reading enjoyment I submit the following link of the CSA's audited financial statements for 2009:

http://www.canadasoccer.com/documents/2009_CSA_Audited_Financial_Statements_EN.pdf

Of particular interest you will note the following:

Total revenues $14,202,716 of which over 6 million came from membership fees and 4 million from sponsorships and donations and 1.7 million from Sport Canada.

Funds spent on: Senior Teams $2,805,730

Youth Teams 1,387,120

Office of the technical director 1,806,669

Technical dept 1,569,814

****** you will note that they spent over 3.3 million on Technical..........that is more than the funds spent on the actual teams!!!!!!

BUT the whopper of them all???? Administration and meetings $1,613, 876

In other words they spent over a million and half dollars on an administration that has given us years of mediocrity.

So Vic, get your facts straight and stop being an apologist for this lot

[Vic]

Actually perhaps you should spend more time talking to people and less time Googling. Our youth teams run on $400k per. Oh wait, that's the number I quoted. What a surprise.

And Ref, I'm not complaining. It's not perfect but it's ours. Do people like the Germans and Americans do it better? Hell yeah. Do they have ten times the money we do? Hell yeah. For the money we have all our womens programs overproduce many times what other people spend. And if anyone has better avenues to funding I'll be the very first one to shake their hand.

[Jacko]

Actually perhaps you should spend more time talking to people and less time Googling. Our youth teams run on $400k per. Oh wait, that's the number I quoted. What a surprise.

And Ref, I'm not complaining. It's not perfect but it's ours. Do people like the Germans and Americans do it better? Hell yeah. Do they have ten times the money we do? Hell yeah. For the money we have all our womens programs overproduce many times what other people spend. And if anyone has better avenues to funding I'll be the very first one to shake their hand.

How exactly does $ 1,387,120 turn into " $400k all-inclusive" in your world? Please elaborate. After you add proportional technical spending, administration , etc the the amount spent on youth teams in significantly higher than 1.38 million.

Perhaps you should stop listening to the people that you talk to. It is very obviously a case of the blind leading the blind.

And lastly I started this thread because of a conversation that I had with U17WNT parents not the CSA apparatchiks that you seem to waste your time with.

[Vic]

We've gone over budgets (and that section in particular) long ago in this forum - it's 400k per team for crying out loud. Play word games all you like that's what it is.

My information comes from kids on the team and their parents, not the CSA. And if you'd rather I cup half-emptied it and slagged people who have busted their ass to give motivated young ladies who want to win the world cup a great experience and chance to live their dream apologies for letting you down.

[Jacko]

We've gone over budgets (and that section in particular) long ago in this forum - it's 400k per team for crying out loud. Play word games all you like that's what it is.

My information comes from kids on the team and their parents, not the CSA. And if you'd rather I cup half-emptied it and slagged people who have busted their ass to give motivated young ladies who want to win the world cup a great experience and chance to live their dream apologies for letting you down.

Its certainly not word games. These numbers come right out of their 2009 financial statements. You may have dissected previous budgets but certainly not this one. Because if you had you would have noticed that they ended the year with cash on hand of 1.8 million and had enough excess cash to purchase a 1.5 million GIC and have a 1.5 million credit facility which is untapped at their disposal.

So you may wish to plead poverty for the CSA as a convenient way to excuse why they constantly underachieve but the numbers prove otherwise.

You are basically saying that with 3.3 million in excess funds they couldn't come up with a budget for a tutor/teacher/academic supervisor to ensure that these girls stayed on top of their studies?

No. The money is obviously there. What's missing is the forethought to put together a professional program that encompasses a child's total well being and that of course includes academics.

Because at the end of the day and at the end of the World Cup when these girls are tossed aside like a bunch of old shoes the ugly reality of their situation will set in. That is when the determination will be made as to weather it was all worth it. Weather putting up with a belligerent coach, lack of CSA resources and the realization that their class mates have left them behind was indeed prudent.

To argue that no one is forcing these girls to play on the U17 team is disingenuous. They have immense pressure from all sides to continue on. And as we all know from many,many previous examples if a player ever turns down any invitations to provincial select teams, NTC or National team call ups they become a non entity in the eyes of the CSA and their career with respect to that National Teams pathway is finished. Never to be resurrected.

Of this the players and parents are aware so this unfortunately becomes the ultimate form of control that the CSA has over players and why some parents are willing to sacrifice their child's education or at least put it on hold.

I just hope that this team does well at the World Cup because otherwise the after effects will be ugly indeed.

[Jacko]

We've gone over budgets (and that section in particular) long ago in this forum - it's 400k per team for crying out loud. Play word games all you like that's what it is.

My information comes from kids on the team and their parents, not the CSA. And if you'd rather I cup half-emptied it and slagged people who have busted their ass to give motivated young ladies who want to win the world cup a great experience and chance to live their dream apologies for letting you down.

Its certainly not word games. These numbers come right out of their 2009 financial statements. You may have dissected previous budgets but certainly not this one. Because if you had you would have noticed that they ended the year with cash on hand of 1.8 million and had enough excess cash to purchase a 1.5 million GIC and have a 1.5 million credit facility which is untapped at their disposal.

So you may wish to plead poverty for the CSA as a convenient way to excuse why they constantly underachieve but the numbers prove otherwise.

You are basically saying that with 3.3 million in excess funds they couldn't come up with a budget for a tutor/teacher/academic supervisor to ensure that these girls stayed on top of their studies?

No. The money is obviously there. What's missing is the forethought to put together a professional program that encompasses a child's total well being and that of course includes academics.

Because at the end of the day and at the end of the World Cup when these girls are tossed aside like a bunch of old shoes the ugly reality of their situation will set in. That is when the determination will be made as to weather it was all worth it. Weather putting up with a belligerent coach, lack of CSA resources and the realization that their class mates have left them behind was indeed prudent.

To argue that no one is forcing these girls to play on the U17 team is disingenuous. They have immense pressure from all sides to continue on. And as we all know from many,many previous examples if a player ever turns down any invitations to provincial select teams, NTC or National team call ups they become a non entity in the eyes of the CSA and their career with respect to that National Teams pathway is finished. Never to be resurrected.

Of this the players and parents are aware so this unfortunately becomes the ultimate form of control that the CSA has over players and why some parents are willing to sacrifice their child's education or at least put it on hold.

I just hope that this team does well at the World Cup because otherwise the after effects will be ugly indeed.

[Pete K]

Its certainly not word games. These numbers come right out of their 2009 financial statements. You may have dissected previous budgets but certainly not this one. Because if you had you would have noticed that they ended the year with cash on hand of 1.8 million and had enough excess cash to purchase a 1.5 million GIC and have a 1.5 million credit facility which is untapped at their disposal.

So you may wish to plead poverty for the CSA as a convenient way to excuse why they constantly underachieve but the numbers prove otherwise.

You are basically saying that with 3.3 million in excess funds they couldn't come up with a budget for a tutor/teacher/academic supervisor to ensure that these girls stayed on top of their studies?

No. The money is obviously there. What's missing is the forethought to put together a professional program that encompasses a child's total well being and that of course includes academics.

Because at the end of the day and at the end of the World Cup when these girls are tossed aside like a bunch of old shoes the ugly reality of their situation will set in. That is when the determination will be made as to weather it was all worth it. Weather putting up with a belligerent coach, lack of CSA resources and the realization that their class mates have left them behind was indeed prudent.

To argue that no one is forcing these girls to play on the U17 team is disingenuous. They have immense pressure from all sides to continue on. And as we all know from many,many previous examples if a player ever turns down any invitations to provincial select teams, NTC or National team call ups they become a non entity in the eyes of the CSA and their career with respect to that National Teams pathway is finished. Never to be resurrected.

Of this the players and parents are aware so this unfortunately becomes the ultimate form of control that the CSA has over players and why some parents are willing to sacrifice their child's education or at least put it on hold.

I just hope that this team does well at the World Cup because otherwise the after effects will be ugly indeed.

Amen.

I can only say that people like Vic have obviously never had a kid on any of these teams to be spewing the kind of nonsense that has been brought forth on this thread. I dont know very many 16 year olds that can afford to miss a month of school and not have their grades adversely affected. To say that if the kids can't handle it then they shouldn't be there, and talking about "choices" like they are choosing to go to parties or spend time sunbathing instead of studying or playing soccer is absurd; all these kids playing at this level are working their butts off at the expense of pretty much everything else in their lives, which is their choice and they do it because they are passionate about it. But the fact is, that there aren't many people, adults even, that could afford so much time off without having adverse effects. And we are talking about bringing a tutor on staff, someone entirely focused on making sure that they are staying on top of their schoolwork, not blowing the budget on something frivilous as some of you have insinuated. Its their education, their future; and for kids that have worked hard enough to be asked to wear the flag on their shirts, they should at least be given support with that. Maybe those guys at the CSA could give up a few nights at the Four Seasons to bring some of the money over towards that, as we are so cash strapped.

I'm assuming that some of the biggest fans of the women's game in this country are on this message board, to be writing and forming opinions (fantastic that there are people that care enough about the women's game to be debating), but again, to be accepting this lack of support and accepting mediocrity, to me, is case in point as to why this country is going nowhere fast, and other countries continue to pass us (and Vic, I guarantee you its more than just Germany and the US that have pencilled in academic help to their youth budgets). Canada should be a powerhouse on the world scene based on numbers of girls participating, alone. To reward years of hard work from the girls, with a lack of support at the top level, to me, is disappointing to say the least.

And I'm just curious to those of you out there who are saying that this is acceptable and have the attitude that there shouldn't be a demand for a higher standard. Where do you guys stand then in terms of kids like Sydney Leroux, choosing a program that does support their athletes on all fronts? I'm as patriotic as it comes, but anyone that can sit there and say that academic help for 16 year olds pulled out of school for a month is unnecessary, should be the last people lambasting kids that choose to go to countries that actually make it a priority to support their athletes become the best that they can be, on and off the soccer field.

[Richard]

Vic may never have had a child in the national team program - I don't know - but I certainly have - and in the provincial allstar programs of two provinces from age 13 and a four year university athletic program so I know something of what I speak. Read my posts in this thread with that in mind.

I applaud the CSA for accumulating some reserve cash, finally some sensible financial management. If your kid cannot handle the load of participating in the national team program while maintaining reasonable grades at school which is obviously important to you, maybe she should focus on her academics and lower her soccer aspirations. For many kids there is no option, it is one or the other. If you're willing to spend upwards of $400,000 on your child's soccer programs - why not redirect some of that and hire your own tutor? I certainly did not expect the CSA to take care of my childs academic progress, that's my and my child's responsibility, nobody else's.

[Pete K]

Vic may never have had a child in the national team program - I don't know - but I certainly have - and in the provincial allstar programs of two provinces from age 13 and a four year university athletic program so I know something of what I speak. Read my posts in this thread with that in mind.

I applaud the CSA for accumulating some reserve cash, finally some sensible financial management. If your kid cannot handle the load of participating in the national team program while maintaining reasonable grades at school which is obviously important to you, maybe she should focus on her academics and lower her soccer aspirations. For many kids there is no option, it is one or the other. If you're willing to spend upwards of $400,000 on your child's soccer programs - why not redirect some of that and hire your own tutor? I certainly did not expect the CSA to take care of my childs academic progress, that's my and my child's responsibility, nobody else's.

Richard, why don't you read through my posts in the last couple of pages in this thread where I mention specifically that my kid was one of the lucky ones, that academics came easy to, and maintained straight As while playing at one of the youth world cups. But thanks anyways for the advice on "lowering soccer aspirations and focusing on academics". I am talking about some of her teammates, who were not as fortunate to have either a) parents that were highly educated and could help her or from a lower income family that couldn't afford tutoring to catch up for all the missed work. Let's be honest, as much as your have been trumpted your kids' horn on this, he obviously benefitted from having educated parents who were from an upper-middle class bracket (correct me if I am wrong). Call me a socialist, or maybe someone that grew up on the lower income side of the tracks, but I would like my national team represented with the BEST soccer players from across the country, not just the ones with rich parents or who are able to pull off straight A's (and I say that even if my daughter would have been one of the ones cut because of it). From a financial standpoint, I'd like to know that in the 365,000 (or something close) girls playing soccer in this country, that the powers that be have the ability to sort through the finances enough to take a tutor with our top 16 year olds, to make sure that they are able to excel on and off the field, and not have their graduation from high school endangered by playing for their country.

[Jacko]

Richard, why don't you read through my posts in the last couple of pages in this thread where I mention specifically that my kid was one of the lucky ones, that academics came easy to, and maintained straight As while playing at one of the youth world cups. But thanks anyways for the advice on "lowering soccer aspirations and focusing on academics". I am talking about some of her teammates, who were not as fortunate to have either a) parents that were highly educated and could help her or from a lower income family that couldn't afford tutoring to catch up for all the missed work. Let's be honest, as much as your have been trumpted your kids' horn on this, he obviously benefitted from having educated parents who were from an upper-middle class bracket (correct me if I am wrong). Call me a socialist, or maybe someone that grew up on the lower income side of the tracks, but I would like my national team represented with the BEST soccer players from across the country, not just the ones with rich parents or who are able to pull off straight A's (and I say that even if my daughter would have been one of the ones cut because of it). From a financial standpoint, I'd like to know that in the 365,000 (or something close) girls playing soccer in this country, that the powers that be have the ability to sort through the finances enough to take a tutor with our top 16 year olds, to make sure that they are able to excel on and off the field, and not have their graduation from high school endangered by playing for their country.

Well said Pete. Some people here would love to see these teams as elitist and to hell with those that can't afford the freight.

Now that we have shown that there is no lack of funds at the CSA isn't it funny how the argument reverts back to parental responsibility. Well to that all I can say is that not all parents are responsible. If they all were then Provinces wouldn't need government agencies such as Child and Family Services.

Am I equating allowing these girls to slip in their academics neglect? You bet I am!!! On the part of the parents but mostly the CSA. Instead of $500 a night hotel rooms and going on fact finding junkets to Timbuktu they should spend some of those funds on educators

Come on now!!! Over 1.5 million spent on administration and meetings. I'd like to hear just one plausible justification for that waste of money

[hc1]

I think a few issues are getting mixed up here.

My guess is that if you ask the question: "if the funds are available, would it be a good idea for the CSA to provide tutors to members of Canada's national youth teams, so that they can continue to get an education while they are in training to play for their country", I am sure many, if not most people would say 'YES!'

But if you where to ask people: "what one area should the CSA increase spending in, in order to better fulfill their mission of promoting "...growth and development of soccer for all Canadians at all levels...", I am betting few other than team members, their parents, and their parent's close friends would come up with "tutoring" as first on their list of priorities.

Don't get me wrong. I have no doubt that there is waste at the CSA, and I have no doubt that being on the team is a financial (and educational) hardship for many girls. But if they were to do one thing to improve soccer in this country - spending money on tutors would not be it. (And in fact - I suspect that if they started doing that today - many would point to that as an example of wasteful spending).

My vote is that if there is any "extra" money - they should spend money on finally getting a home game or 2 for the girls - we have to raise their profile somehow...

[red card]

A lot of people whine about the support behind the elite teams in Canada but yet when an additional $5 was asked by the CSA, the provinces, clubs & parents turned it down. Unfortunately, we still have a predominant view of football as mostly recreational sport only.

[The Ref]

I think a few issues are getting mixed up here.

My guess is that if you ask the question: "if the funds are available, would it be a good idea for the CSA to provide tutors to members of Canada's national youth teams, so that they can continue to get an education while they are in training to play for their country", I am sure many, if not most people would say 'YES!'

But if you where to ask people: "what one area should the CSA increase spending in, in order to better fulfill their mission of promoting "...growth and development of soccer for all Canadians at all levels...", I am betting few other than team members, their parents, and their parent's close friends would come up with "tutoring" as first on their list of priorities.

Don't get me wrong. I have no doubt that there is waste at the CSA, and I have no doubt that being on the team is a financial (and educational) hardship for many girls. But if they were to do one thing to improve soccer in this country - spending money on tutors would not be it. (And in fact - I suspect that if they started doing that today - many would point to that as an example of wasteful spending).

My vote is that if there is any "extra" money - they should spend money on finally getting a home game or 2 for the girls - we have to raise their profile somehow...

I certainly don't consider myself as part of the "many' who would say that education is a waste of money. Furthermore the complete lack of educational support offered by the CSA could be resulting in some soccer-talented young girls staying away from national team committment because of it. Full fledge tutoring may be too much to expect, but at least some basic subjects such as English and Math could be of great help.

[Richard]

I think a few issues are getting mixed up here.

My guess is that if you ask the question: "if the funds are available, would it be a good idea for the CSA to provide tutors to members of Canada's national youth teams, so that they can continue to get an education while they are in training to play for their country", I am sure many, if not most people would say 'YES!'

But if you where to ask people: "what one area should the CSA increase spending in, in order to better fulfill their mission of promoting "...growth and development of soccer for all Canadians at all levels...", I am betting few other than team members, their parents, and their parent's close friends would come up with "tutoring" as first on their list of priorities.

Don't get me wrong. I have no doubt that there is waste at the CSA, and I have no doubt that being on the team is a financial (and educational) hardship for many girls. But if they were to do one thing to improve soccer in this country - spending money on tutors would not be it. (And in fact - I suspect that if they started doing that today - many would point to that as an example of wasteful spending).

My vote is that if there is any "extra" money - they should spend money on finally getting a home game or 2 for the girls - we have to raise their profile somehow...

Well said.

[Richard]

I certainly don't consider myself as part of the "many' who would say that education is a waste of money. Furthermore the complete lack of educational support offered by the CSA could be resulting in some soccer-talented young girls staying away from national team committment because of it. Full fledge tutoring may be too much to expect, but at least some basic subjects such as English and Math could be of great help.

If basic tutoring in math and English would satisfy your need then I suggest there is a problem that runs much deeper than would be solved by a CSA supplied tutor for a week or two at a time.

[Vic]

Yes, thanks for the clarity hc1 and red card.

There was a dynamite 18yr old French girl named Chloé Dufour-Lapointe who placed fifth in moguls at the Olympics. Besides being an amazing athlete and even more amazing role model she's a good representative of what all our Olympic amateur athletes go through (including female soccer players).

How do you manage training and school in between events?

"Over the past 4 years, I’ve worked closely with the entire team at the Anjou College [CEGEP/French High School]. I make special arrangements with my professors at the beginning of the year, so that everything goes as well as possible during my school year. I have to establish a course and exam schedule that will allow me to train as much as possible, and attend competitions while pursuing a complete education. My teachers make themselves available and they are very accommodating about my absences. I must work twice as hard when I have time, especially, as of April."

As she puts perfectly: if you want to be successful in two careers, you need to work twice as hard - in any sport.