nolbertos Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi There are four that are recognized on the Toronto FC website, although there are three major groups. The are completely separate from one another, although the groups combine forces on road trips, in-stadium displays, etc. Thanks for the info Rudi. Just checked the TFC website and indeed there are 4, but never heard of "Tribal Rhythm Nation" just catering to African, Caribbean and Latinos. Always thought Supporter's Groups were always multi-cultural, I still remember Turkish supporters bringing there drums during the Lynx era, and chant with the U-sector. Say hello to Mirza, Frank, Tony, the Keays and whoever else I missed. I still have my original TO Lynx Ultras shirt, given to me by Mirza , still wear it proud and brought it once to the Southside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed These types of posts show a complete ignorance of the modern history of soccer in Canada. 'Support' is not a concept which was born with the Red Patch Boys. The Whitecaps have a long and storied history of being the best supported pro soccer club in Canada and will very likely surpass Toronto in their 1st year of operation in MLS. Never said support started with RPB or U-Sector. In fact I actually applaud you guys for having stuck through with supporting your team. I can only say what it seems like on tv and it seems like a small group. Hopefully more people come out of the woodwork when you actually play in Vancouver and not in Burnaby. I've never been to the west coast,(hoping to go at some point in the near future though) so I'm not sure what the distances are b/w the 2 cities. As Rudi pointed out, I do know that the NASL 'caps aren't exactly the same as the current 'caps. Beyond that I know nothing. I'm sure their are some supporters from the old guard still supporting the team though. I'm only basing this on the cbc special though. lol Hell, the Montreal Ultras have also been supporting the Impact for longer then TFC has been around. So obviously supporters groups didn't start with TFC. As for surpassing TFC supporters after your 1st year, bring it. We like the competition. Just means we're all better when the national squad comes around to play. (which with the csa is like once a decade...) And by weak support for the 'caps I meant small as in small numbers. I'm sure you guys would probably do whatever it took to cheer for your team on being the 12th man. I didn't mean it in the sense that your support is no good. I admit, wrong choice of words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 A few comments: 1. When we refer to "support" and "numbers" let's be clear what we're discussing. If you mean attendance, Vancouver fills 95% of those seats throughout the course of a season. While we're stuck at Swangard, there simply isn't much room to grow. The move downtown from the burbs is long overdue. If you're trying to quantify "Southsiders" you're looking at a core group of 50 who lead the songs, chants, tifo, etc, and an additional 150 to 200 fans who join them in the Southside area. Sure, that's tiny compared to RPB numbers, but it slaughters the numbers put up in Toronto during the Lynx era. 2. A fan is not deemed "plastic" by my standards simply because they are new. A plastic fan is one who springs up out of nowhere and makes condescending statements to other supporters about their superiority as a fan or fan group while at the same time they are completely ignorant of their city's soccer history, and/or refused to support the club they had prior to "major league" action arriving on the scene. 3. The old Whitecaps / 86ers / Whitecaps debate... lots of ways to argue this. The NASL club ceased operations when the league folded. The 86ers were started 2 years later by a different ownership group. Two clubs, right? ...but Vancouver fans generally tend to accept the two clubs as being the same entity mostly because of the overlapping involvement of key players and staff, ie the Lenarduzzi brothers, Carl Valentine and to a lesser extent Dale Mitchell. I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying that's the most plausible reason for it. Further muddying the waters - the current 86ers / Whitecaps acquired all the intellectual properties of the NASL Whitecaps club (trademarks, copyrights, etc). This means they can legally use the old NASL Caps logo and other nostalgic materials as their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 quote:Hell, the Montreal Ultras have also been supporting the Impact for longer then TFC has been around. So obviously supporters groups didn't start with TFC. .... and the Southsiders have been around before the Montreal Ultras. Here's a few clips from 2000, a year after the southsiders formed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askdAny5HRQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYEFCpEN14o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnZmOBjX2XA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTCw-sdH2eE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 ^ Some of those vids were made before most of the Red Patch Boys were weaned off mommy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by SilverSamurai Hell, the Montreal Ultras have also been supporting the Impact for longer then TFC has been around. So obviously supporters groups didn't start with TFC. Funny you say that too, but I was in Montreal, with the U-Sector, the day the Montreal Ultras started, it was only 2 "kids" at that time, who started chanting like crazy and now look how far those 2 "men" now have come to form a huge group. Daniel and his bro, have done a good job of growing the Montreal Ultras. The Southsiders have been as long as the U-Sector, if not longer, but I think it was mostly 10 - 15 guys when it started, and now it's ballooned to 50 and more counting, and remember that this is a USL team. I can't imagine how many Van Whitecap new converts will want to either join the "Southsiders" or form there own new supporter's club, when the MLS comes to town. Just like the RPB did, when during the dark days of Canadian Futbol in TO, the U-Sector held the fort in Toronto, during the pre-MLS days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster If you're trying to quantify "Southsiders" you're looking at a core group of 50 who lead the songs, chants, tifo, etc, and an additional 150 to 200 fans who join them in the Southside area. Sure, that's tiny compared to RPB numbers, but it slaughters the numbers put up in Toronto during the Lynx era. I know a lot of people love to take shots at Toronto during the Lynx era without actually looking at the situation, but as I know you're one of the more reasonable ones out there, even you would admit that comparing Lynx vs. Caps numbers says more about the organization (or in the Hartrells' case, lack thereof) than the respective city's support. A ton of people who support TFC now and never heard of the Lynx then also never heard of MLS. It stands to argue that it was not the league that brought in all of the new fans, but the increased visibility of the new team thanks to a professional ownership group. If the Whitecaps were owned by the Hartrells, and run as a personal tax write-off for the owners rather than a pro team, I'd argue that Vancouver's numbers would be roughly the same as the Lynx's were. As I've posted on your board, I have respect for the Southsiders, and a lot of respect for the Whitecaps professionalism, even while currently stuck in a league that sorely lacks such a quality. Yet having seen the Hartrell's lack of ambition, professionalism, and passion first-hand, I'd say that even the most ardent of supporters anywhere in this country would have their mettle tested in those conditions. Had Kerfoot owned the Lynx rather than the Caps, I'd say the numbers would be roughly what they are in Vancouver. And yes, I'm aware that historically Vancouver has had bigger numbers for soccer than Toronto when both are in the same league. That doesn't change the way things are in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead .... and the Southsiders have been around before the Montreal Ultras. Here's a few clips from 2000, a year after the southsiders formed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=askdAny5HRQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYEFCpEN14o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnZmOBjX2XA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTCw-sdH2eE That was the year U-Sector formed. [8D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster 2. A fan is not deemed "plastic" by my standards simply because they are new. A plastic fan is one who springs up out of nowhere and makes condescending statements to other supporters about their superiority as a fan or fan group while at the same time they are completely ignorant of their city's soccer history, and/or refused to support the club they had prior to "major league" action arriving on the scene. Oh, and Johnny, you'll see a ton of those in 2011. Especially if the Caps have decent attendance in that first year (I don't see why they wouldn't). My mentioning plastic fans had nothing to do with your description of what they are today. But rather, when TFC was still selling those original season tickets, and blowing everyone's expectations away, I read a lot of comments about plastic fans who only follow the "big" league, even then. That's what I find ironic, because Vancouver is going to have to rely on these same types of fans to fill BC Place in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi That was the year U-Sector formed. [8D] I don't recall meeting you in the U-Sector, Rudi?? I was there in 2001, and met everybody, except yourself. Unless I forgot that I met you, but I can always put a name to a face Edit: I remember that "F*** you Krammerhead" comment too. I was at the game, when some Ultra said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi That was the year U-Sector formed. [8D] Which year? 1999 or 2000? I'm still trying to find the clip of you guys yelling "f**k you Krammerhead", while being interviewed during that sportsnet game. Don't have a VCR at the moment to convert it though. Heh, we must have posted this at the same time. If I recall correctly, there was one "f**k you krammerhead" and a couple of others repeated it. Great stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 quote:Originally posted by nolbertos I don't recall meeting you in the U-Sector, Rudi?? I was there in 2001, and met everybody, except yourself. Unless I forgot that I met you, but I can always put a name to a face I wasn't in the group until 2004, although I had been going to Lynx games on and off since 1997. I was a Voyageur the entire time, as well. quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Which year? 1999 or 2000? I'm still trying to find the clip of you guys yelling "f**k you Krammerhead", while being interviewed during that sportsnet game. Don't have a VCR at the moment to convert it though. Hahaha... I remember hearing about that. The group has been around since 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster A few comments: 1. When we refer to "support" and "numbers" let's be clear what we're discussing. If you mean attendance, Vancouver fills 95% of those seats throughout the course of a season. While we're stuck at Swangard, there simply isn't much room to grow. The move downtown from the burbs is long overdue. If you're trying to quantify "Southsiders" you're looking at a core group of 50 who lead the songs, chants, tifo, etc, and an additional 150 to 200 fans who join them in the Southside area. Sure, that's tiny compared to RPB numbers, but it slaughters the numbers put up in Toronto during the Lynx era. 2. A fan is not deemed "plastic" by my standards simply because they are new. A plastic fan is one who springs up out of nowhere and makes condescending statements to other supporters about their superiority as a fan or fan group while at the same time they are completely ignorant of their city's soccer history, and/or refused to support the club they had prior to "major league" action arriving on the scene. 3. The old Whitecaps / 86ers / Whitecaps debate... lots of ways to argue this. The NASL club ceased operations when the league folded. The 86ers were started 2 years later by a different ownership group. Two clubs, right? ...but Vancouver fans generally tend to accept the two clubs as being the same entity mostly because of the overlapping involvement of key players and staff, ie the Lenarduzzi brothers, Carl Valentine and to a lesser extent Dale Mitchell. I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying that's the most plausible reason for it. Further muddying the waters - the current 86ers / Whitecaps acquired all the intellectual properties of the NASL Whitecaps club (trademarks, copyrights, etc). This means they can legally use the old NASL Caps logo and other nostalgic materials as their own. 1. Yes I meant attendance. And I realize that Swangard is small so it's to be expected. However you guys have a headstart. Unless I'm mistaken RPB didn't. I agree that you guys should be in the city. I also hope you guys get a real stadium aka. the one thats been planned for what seems like since just after the invention of the wheel. The renderings and location are excellent. I can't comment on the Lynx, since I didn't even know they existed. My understanding is that they were run like mom and pop operation. 2. I NEVER said TFC fans are better then Whitecaps fans. I was simply responding to Eds statement that Whitecaps supporters will surpass TFC. I'm basing this on the comments that TFC fans have the best support in MLS. So when you guys join up in 2 years, we'll see whose #1. Although I must admit, I'm envious that you have 2 other clubs close to you guys. 3. Agreed on #3. I have no beef with either Whitecaps or Impact supporters. I really do hope that you guys do well. Esp. the 'caps. More teams in MLS means hopefully better players for the national team. And no I was not at Montreal last year for the TFC/Impact match and I won't be attending this year either. I hope theirs no problems like last yr. Anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I personally do not think the hardcore noise-making fans in Vancouver will surpass TFCs fans during games. I may be wrong, but it is my take. The Caps will surpass TFC attendance because we will be able to absorb more people, so that means, potentially, a vast silent or relatively relaxed majority and a small but bitchin' Southside on some side or end (the BC Place renderings seem to suggest the East side will be it, am I right?). If someone gets the idea to come up with a rival group that would be good, IMO, because it would diversify the energies. May not happen though. I also firmly believe the Whitecaps will be a competitive team, in the playoffs, amongst the best, very quickly. Maybe even from day one. Seattle has shown it can be done. Five years after entering MLS Vancouver will already have better results than TFC, overall and in terms of how far they get in the playoffs. So success in the stands and on the pitch will compensate for not being the premier noisy hardcore supporters group in MLS. And I won't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlimus Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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