Grizzly Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Since this is the third incidence of fan violence/trouble at a CSL game this year I think it is time that the CSL and both involved teams should receive both a warning and some penalty/fine from the CSA and/or OSA. The issue of whether the CSL should have ethnic teams or which group did what can be left for other threads. I think regardless of what the makeup of the teams is, it is up to the league and the clubs involved to ensure that the games are carried out in a manner that is not bringing disrepute onto itself and soccer in general. The last thing we need in Canadian soccer is for a semi-pro league to be making negative headlines for soccer hooliganism just so they can get 2000 fans out to a game. If incidents like this continue in the playoffs and next season the league and the clubs should lose their sanction from these bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 There is an easy solution to all of this. If Serbian White Eagles vs Toronto Croatia proves to be too hot to handle (please note that I strongly suspect they will be able to get it under control before it comes to this) that fixture and that fixture only gets played behind closed doors. No need to disband any leagues or close any teams down in that scenario but then that wouldn't fit some people's underlying agenda on here would it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 That would be a possibility and would indeed be the type of penalty I am talking about. However, as far as the league would be concerned if such games could no longer be played for paying fans it would remove the purpose of having such teams in the league. Whether or not anyone has an underlying agenda, if there is violence at the games then any argument for keeping such teams in the league is completely discredited. The only way for such ethnic clubs to justify their existence is for them to show that they can carry out their games in an orderly manner. It is up to the league, clubs and fans themselves to ensure that this happens and if they do not they will be the authors of their own demise so no need to talk about underlying agendas, etc. I doubt that with the U-20 WC and TFC so close that the CSA is going to be very tolerant of low level soccer teams with violent fans. I also think it won't take too many incidents in which the police are called before they take action against the clubs and league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly .....The only way for such ethnic clubs to justify their existence is for them to show that they can carry out their games in an orderly manner...... Clubs like Toronto Croatia and St Catherines Roma have been doing that for years in the C[P]SL. You clearly have an agenda because that isn't even an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 I have never heard of any problems at St Catherines Roma games so whether or not I like ethnic clubs (and I do not like them) I can not criticize them on this point. I am no expert on the past record of Toronto Croatia but they most certainly have not carried out their games in an orderly manner this year. Whether or not one is a fan of ethnic clubs or thinks it is the way forward for Canadian club soccer, there is a huge difference between ethnic clubs with a peaceful fan base and ethnic clubs with a violent fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly ....there is a huge difference between ethnic clubs with a peaceful fan base and ethnic clubs with a violent fan base. Toronto Croatia have had a peaceful fanbase for years in the C[P]SL and AFAIA there have been no significant problems with the SWE prior to the first Croatia game. The reality is that there is only one game that is causing a potential problem so we are not talking about something analogous to the notoriously violent element within Millwall's fan base over in England who will take on any opposition no matter what the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Of course, SWE didn't issue monkey chants towards black players on a far more multicultural roster. Oh wait. SWE is the symbol for everything that is anti-Canadian and anti-multiculturalism. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Of course, SWE didn't issue monkey chants towards black players on a far more multicultural roster. Oh wait. SWE is the symbol for everything that is anti-Canadian and anti-multiculturalism. Nevermind. I don't see how this follows on from anything in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard There is an easy solution to all of this. If Serbian White Eagles vs Toronto Croatia proves to be too hot to handle (please note that I strongly suspect they will be able to get it under control before it comes to this) that fixture and that fixture only gets played behind closed doors. No need to disband any leagues or close any teams down in that scenario but then that wouldn't fit some people's underlying agenda on here would it. Can't see the CSL going along with this, it would completely defeat the whole purpose for the creation of the international division. From what I have read and heard, the CSL commissioner is more than happy that such games generate publicity and apparently increased gate revenues if he is to be believed. He doesn't come across as very sincere about quelling the violence. The international division is an embarrassment to Canadian soccer. Shame on the CSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalkanBoy Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG SWE is the symbol for everything that is anti-Canadian and anti-multiculturalism. Doyle you have some serious issues with the Serbs. If you ever want to meet up for drinks with some of them, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Oh wait. SWE is the symbol for everything that is anti-Canadian and anti-multiculturalism. Nevermind. Doyle, you are going quite overboard here. I was standing on the Croatian side of the stadium and they were just as ugly as SWE have been. Truly, you cannot pick sides here, its just as useless as picking sides in Northern Ireland. The ugliness emanates from all sides in this dispute. I posted my observations of the game from the Croatian side in the other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard Can't see the CSL going along with this, it would completely defeat the whole purpose for the creation of the international division. How so when the SWE have been attracting large crowds by CSL standards to all their other games as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HamiltonSteelers Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 As far as St. Catherines Roma goes... if they haven't thrown a punch at the BHTC by now, they never will. And BTW, they are a fantastic club, appreciative players, great staff. Even when we were the visitors heckling their goalie mercilessly, the fans thought we brought a great atmosphere to the games that have been lacking. Objective fans, I suppose. *shrug* I don't look at Roma as being an 'Italian Club', rather a 'club that happens to have Italian ties'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by RealGooner Doyle, you are going quite overboard here. I was standing on the Croatian side of the stadium and they were just as ugly as SWE have been. Truly, you cannot pick sides here, its just as useless as picking sides in Northern Ireland. The ugliness emanates from all sides in this dispute. I posted my observations of the game from the Croatian side in the other thread. Yet what does this sort of a thing happen? Simple, it all happened because someone desperate for a few bucks decided to bring SWE into the league. Would this sort of thing have happened if SWE were allowed back in? NO Would the CSL suffer without SWE? NO. Why? League would still be in the same position but without the risk of negative press. Any neutral person can agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalkanBoy Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Yet what does this sort of a thing happen? Simple, it all happened because someone desperate for a few bucks decided to bring SWE into the league. Would this sort of thing have happened if SWE were allowed back in? NO Would the CSL suffer without SWE? NO. Why? League would still be in the same position but without the risk of negative press. Any neutral person can agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Well it seems the CSL Serbian/Croatian ethnic games are the only ones where there has been violence. Seems to me that without them there would have been no violence to speak of. If that's the way you like your soccer - like people who watch hockey hoping for fights - then go for it but I for one would never buy a ticket or support the CSL international division in any way and I suspect I am not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BalkanBoy Toronto Croatia and their fan who instigated this incident are an embarrassment to Canadian soccer shame on them. If anything should be done it's not to play behind closed dorr but to fine the team, remember it's all about the $$$$$ There is no way the sorts of incidents described by people on here can become the norm. If they do become the norm then fines won't be enough IMO. Games could also be made all ticket for home supporters only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Yet what does this sort of a thing happen? Simple, it all happened because someone desperate for a few bucks decided to bring SWE into the league. Would this sort of thing have happened if SWE were allowed back in? NO Would the CSL suffer without SWE? NO. Why? League would still be in the same position but without the risk of negative press. Any neutral person can agree with that. I've had the misfortune of playing against the dreaded Serbian White Eagles - Edmonton version. Misfortune because they normally whip us pretty bad...on the scoreboard. EDSA allows them to be in the league and they're no worse for it. In fact Serbian teams and Croatian teams play each other all the time in EDSA. No bust-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 quote:Originally posted by River City I've had the misfortune of playing against the dreaded Serbian White Eagles - Edmonton version. Misfortune because they normally whip us pretty bad...on the scoreboard. EDSA allows them to be in the league and they're no worse for it. In fact Serbian teams and Croatian teams play each other all the time in EDSA. No bust-ups. This game did not take place in Edmonton, it took place in Toronto. You're also talking about a local league, not a league that professes to be professional and national. Oh BTW, multiculturalism isn't a Canadian value. It's a Liberal one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Oh BTW, multiculturalism isn't a Canadian value. It's a Liberal one. Um, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Oh BTW, multiculturalism isn't a Canadian value. It's a Liberal one. Um, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 "multiculturalism isn't a Canadian value. It's a Liberal one" Spoken like a true Reform/Alliance devotee, what a surprise! I'll bet you voted for good ole Stevie Harpo too - Yee Ha!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSL Commissioner Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 All, The CSL will not tolerate violence or intimidation at any of our games. For the Serbian-Croatia matches, in particular the most recent one, we had 30 security guards, 8 police officers, a ban on flares and fireworks and a thorough frisking of all patrons, and several security meetings. We made a sincere and aggressive effort to provide a safe environment. Unfortunately, the game still produced a volitile atmosphere, which is totally unacceptable. We are proud of the international division in Toronto in general, and believe firmly in the concept. The league has had a very strong season in a number of areas both on and off the field, not the least of which was roughly 50,000 fans through the turnstiles; we look forward to an exciting and well attended playoffs, but irrespective of the crowds or the dollars resulting from the Serbia-Croatia matches, safety will remain our top concern. All the clubs, and the 12 CSL ownership groups, including those of the Serbian White Ealges and Toronto Croatia are committed to providing great soccer to our fans in a family friendly environment. We remain steadfast in our committment to this objective. Cary Kaplan Commissioner Canadian Soccer League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 "Unfortunately, the game still produced a volitile atmosphere" Clearly you anticipated this sort of thing in view of the security arrangements you obviously considered necessary. I'm afraid your protests about bad behaviour being intolerable ring hollow sir because the very nature of the international division you have created lends itself to precisly this kind of thuggish behaviour. Good luck to you Mr. Commissioner. I regret that in the long term your determination to pursue this ethno-cultural based conference will prove to be a bad idea for the CSL and its aspirations to spread its business model across the country. You are engendering ill-feeling and disrespect by pursuing this divisive approach in a domestic self-described professional league which will work against the broader long term interests of the CSL and soccer in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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