WYC 2007. de Guzman, bring your own insurance.

[Cheeta]

The CSA no longer holds career-ending injury insurance, a decision it says it made with its players. The premiums were just too expensive. Most other national federations have made the same choice, the CSA says.

Now such insurance falls to clubs, with the CSA encouraging players to take on their insurance on top of that.

1st a couple of questions maybe someone can answer.

A). The decision was made with what players? Are we talking about Canadians here and if so who? Was there some sort of vote amongst some body of Canadian players here? Senior, youth, mens, womens? A little more light on the matter please. Is this a FIFA directive? Or is this just CSA double speak for "we told the players they'd have to buy the CSA company insurance for career ending injurys as the CSA wasn't going to pay the premiums any longer and they told us to forget it".

and,,,

. While I'm sure most Federations have gone this path I also think most Federations are dirt poor 3rd world countrys. We're Canadian and not living, nor accepting of, 3rd world standards. What are the Americans doing? What are the western Europeans doing? There's the guage I'll measure this decision by thank you.

And now a couple of thoughts.

So we're starting to get a pretty good picture of what it takes to play for Canada' honour.

Steerage class air fare which might get bumped up to 1st class but if you want to be sure you'll have to pay the difference yourself. Wouldn't worry too much about it though. You're only flying across an ocean and a continent and a-half. Short fly. See you at the pitch!

You or your club will have to pay the premiums for career ending insurance. I'm sure your clubs insurance provider will take into account your NT duties when setting your rate. Wonderful news in the chairman's board I'm sure. Or, you could dole out for your own insurance premiums. Probably best that way. Easier on everyone. Well, ha, everyone else.

So all you up and comers be aware, Canada expects a price to be paid for the honour of pulling on a red shirt. Hard work, aggressive play, and a good balance in the chequeing account.

Wonder what Jonathan de Guzman thinks of all this?

P.S. I think I need a time out. I'm on the edge of mutiny here.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm not an insurance salesman, honest, but if I was making 5 to 10 thousand pounds a week, I would buy my own disability insurance regardless of what my club or country was doing.

[redhat]

Professional sports clubs as well as sports associations usually

have some form of group coverage that has some limitations. The

areas that are contentious are usually relating to activities

OUTSIDE of the usual club/sports association, such as NT tournament

play or even charity events.

Insurance is quite expensive because of the liability and the dollars

involved. Thus payout can be severely delayed in instances where

insurance companies look for "pre-existing conditions", which could

even DENY the claim. The worst part is the wait and deafening silence that accompanies it.

A professional athlete is well advised to get supplementary coverage

in light of his salary and limited normal career.

I know there are several cases involving FIFA and its members, and

injured players, which has resulted in the CSA limiting its

coverage and thus requiring players to get their own insurance.

The classy thing would be if the CSA would SUBSIDIZE the insurance

cost, say paying for 50% of the premiums payable by the player.

That's the least they could do ...

[Cheeta]

You've got to remember when the Jets told Selanne he had to stop racing sports cars during the off season or else pay the insurance premiums himself. So much for the summer rally circuit in Finland.

What gets my blood boiling is the idea that players have to pay for their own coverage. The very idea is ridiculas. Dress it up or excuse it any way you want the long and short is the CSA washs it's hands of any injury which you may substain whilst in their service. You're on your own. End of story. All the other sacrifices you have to make to your personal career apparently aren't enough. Now you have to dig into your own pocket? Doesn't matter how easily you can afford to or not, it's the very idea. It's complete madness.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

I'm not an insurance salesman, honest, but if I was making 5 to 10 thousand pounds a week, I would buy my own disability insurance regardless of what my club or country was doing.

Funny how the guy calling himself youllneverwalkalone is the quickest to abandon any loyalty to the players representing him, and require of them the most mercenary and monetary attitude as the most logical.

If you are going to use that phrase as your name the least you can do is honour it and not disgrace it with your attempts to do the exact opposite of what it represents.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

You've got to remember when the Jets told Selanne he had to stop racing sports cars during the off season or else pay the insurance premiums himself. So much for the summer rally circuit in Finland.

What gets my blood boiling is the idea that players have to pay for their own coverage. The very idea is ridiculas. Dress it up or excuse it any way you want the long and short is the CSA washs it's hands of any injury which you may substain whilst in their service. You're on your own. End of story. All the other sacrifices you have to make to your personal career apparently aren't enough. Now you have to dig into your own pocket? Doesn't matter how easily you can afford to or not, it's the very idea. It's complete madness.

I think your points are right on. If you want to have a little heartwarming sport story where talented individuals sacrifice themselves for their country, and maybe even find success, you can't be arguing for such a cavalier attitude on the part of the organization authorized to call them to take part.

In any case, the whole argument about players taking out their own insurance falls flat when you start talking about the women's team, mostly amateurs, and the junior teams. Are folks here really proposing that the amateur women and teenagers be taking out insurance for CSA call-ups on their dad's salary or NCAA scholarships? I think the best thing they could do if that is the case is say yes to the first England or Portugal callup they can get.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Funny how the guy calling himself youllneverwalkalone is the quickest to abandon any loyalty to the players representing him, and require of them the most mercenary and monetary attitude as the most logical.

If you are going to use that phrase as your name the least you can do is honour it and not disgrace it with your attempts to do the exact opposite of what it represents.

I honestly think you've lost your ****. I say this in a "humane" way, as if somebody should check on you cause you have a shotgun in your mouth...

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

In any case, the whole argument about players taking out their own insurance falls flat when you start talking about the women's team, mostly amateurs, and the junior teams. Are folks here really proposing that the amateur women and teenagers be taking out insurance for CSA call-ups on their dad's salary or NCAA scholarships?

For clarification Jeffrey, certain insurance policies cover certain

things. AMATEUR and junior teams are likely covered to the extent

of injury coverage, ie. costs of hospitalization and rehab, etc.

For professionals however, it's different. It likely involves

disability coverage, ie. REPLACEMENT of income while disabled.

That costs a lot, and then some. That's the issue for FIFA

right now. It really isn't the payment of doctor's bills that's

the main worry. It's the case of replacing 60% to 80% of

Drogba's Chelsea salary, or Jason De Vos' Ipswich payment.

This problem extends outside of the CSA and to many other countries.

Costa Rica, Iran, and Australia have the same challenges. IT REALLY

SU*KS, for the players and for the fans who are powerless regarding

this issue. Respectfully, the issue isn't cut and dry.

(BTW, finance, insurance,investment, and risk management is my area.)

[Richard]

Redhat, thank you for bringing a note of sanity to this topic. It is very helpful to have somebody knowledgeable in the field point out some of the factors at play rather than see endless emotional but futile and often ill-informed rants about the perceived incompetence of the CSA.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

You've got to remember when the Jets told Selanne he had to stop racing sports cars during the off season or else pay the insurance premiums himself. So much for the summer rally circuit in Finland.

What gets my blood boiling is the idea that players have to pay for their own coverage. The very idea is ridiculas.

I remember that issue. It's different than you think. The Jets were

not only worried about any hospital bills, the Jets were worried

about having an injured player AND having to pay his $3.2 million

salary to boot (through expensive disability insurance).

Disability insurance for a professional athlete is expensive because

it is based on his contract-based salary and his market value.

(Sounds awful, doesn't it ... treated like a commodity.)

Of course I would prefer if the CSA would cover the players'

insurance. It's the noble approach, however the reality is most

associations can't afford it, and most people cannot understand it.

It costs a lot of money and was hoping that the CSA would at least

subsidize it.

[An Observer]

Ditto redhat. Thanks for the sanity. I think what people forget is when it comes to insurance (in spite of the commercials), people are treated like commodities.

Ironically, most of the people who are all over the CSAs back for not paying out are the same ones who want more matches in Canada, etc. in spite of the fact that such matches cost more money than playing in Europe. Money doesn't grow on trees and when you have very limited budgets difficult decisions need to be made.

In the end, hopefully the G14 gets its way and FIFA takes out global insurance for national matches. And then the big associations pay more than the little guys into this pool. To me, that is a way forward.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

Ditto redhat. Thanks for the sanity. I think what people forget is when it comes to insurance (in spite of the commercials), people are treated like commodities.

Ironically, most of the people who are all over the CSAs back for not paying out are the same ones who want more matches in Canada, etc. in spite of the fact that such matches cost more money than playing in Europe. Money doesn't grow on trees and when you have very limited budgets difficult decisions need to be made.

In the end, hopefully the G14 gets its way and FIFA takes out global insurance for national matches. And then the big associations pay more than the little guys into this pool. To me, that is a way forward.

You have to admit that it is a bit out of place for Blatter and Johanssen to be threatening the G14, accusing them of being money-grabbing, and suggesting they leave football altogether if they don't like it: all for supporting the case of a world soccer giant like Charleroi who lost a player to injury while playing for a national team.

[An Observer]

I would imagine that UEFA and FIFA are very fearful of the G14 as they represent the top 18 club sides in Europe (minus a few like Chelsea). I am primarily a national side fan so in some ways, what the G14 says worrys me. On the other side, I am probably one of the few people who would be interested in seeing a pan-European league where all the top sides play (with some form of relegtation maintained). I also think that would be good for the smaller nations like Holland (PSV, Ajax, Feyenoord); Scotland (Celtic and Rangers); Portugal (Porto; Benefica; Sporting) as this would mean even the small countries could develop top sides that compete against the very best all the time. I of course know that the average fan would hate it as they want to retain the Man U/Man City rivlaries for example (although some of that could be replaced by the continuation of FA Cups).

Essentially, this is what you have in North America where all the best teams in football, baseball, hockey, basketball all play in one league. It doesn't seem to have killed those sports although its true that it has put the ticket of a match outside the reach of most consumers.