enb17 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Hey just found the site and its been a great read so far. Very excited about Toronto getting an MLS side as over the past 2 years I have watched over 200 games and think the league is developing quite nicely. In terms of discussion my question is should the Toronto MLS team use a Player Allocation spot for the signing of Dwayne De Rosario. The Player Allocation basically means each team is allowed to sign a couple of well known players that the team can use to market themselves. So for example this is how the MetroStars have Youri Djorkaeff. My guess based on the way the MLS is managed the only way the Toronto MLS team can get De Rosario is through allocation since he is the top player on the San Jose team. So would you rather have De Rosario or a well known soccer player close to retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Welcome aboard enb17 (has a great ring to it, don't you think?). De Rosario might be a great marketing toolon paper in TO, except that I would bet that the majority of run-of-the-mill, Eurocentric Toronto area fans (the kind that the MLS would want to bring out to support the new side) probably have no idea who he is. That and the fact that this guy doen't exactly shine when playing other matches in front of "home" crowds across Canada. Don't expect some kind of homer effect, anyways. De Rosario = enigma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 David Beckham will be playing for either New York or Los Angeles by 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sounderfan Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/players/500319.html quote: "There is pressure on me. That's where my family is from," the 27-year-old said. "There is that pressure. That does pass through my mind whether I want to play in Toronto. I am happy in San Jose right now. I will see how things go after that." His personal situation aside, DeRosario is thrilled to have a team playing in Canada so the country can grow some of its players on home soil. "It's great for Canadian soccer. It's great for the youth in Canada, something to look forward to. It's a great step forward for soccer in Canada," he said. "Now we have a professional team in Canada to develop our national team." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Calgary Boomer David Beckham will be playing for either New York or Los Angeles by 2008 Maybe, he just told the papers yesterday that he plans on playing at madrid until the end of his career. Maybe he doesn't consider MLS part of his career but a retirement, kinda like Eric Cantona and Beach Soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Leave the few Canucks already playing in MLS where they are. Stock the Toronto team with players that aren't already in the league. That way you get more Canadians playing in MLS, not just the same Canadians playing in a different city. I'd go for the "well-known soccer player close to retirement." Someone like DeVos, Peschisolido, or Radzinski. Pesch is well-known to Toronto soccer fans. DeVos would make an excellent public spokesman for the team. Radz has expressed an interest in helping develop the sport in Canada, what better way than by ending his professional career playing in Toronto. Of course, all three might be retired by 2007. You could also use the spot to attract one of the up-and-coming younger Canadians currently playing in Europe. Someone who may not be well-known to the average fan now but who soon would be once the fans got a look at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I would use an allocation to get DeRosario (or trade an allocation to SJ or whatever it takes). First and foremost he's a proven commodity in the league, one of the MLS' best players, he's domestic and from Toronto. There's a lot of SI slots to fill, but I'm not sure financially or realistically that your last allocation will be of the same standard as DeRosario For every Youri Djorkaeff that gets allocated, there's a few Pablo Chinchilla, Michael Umana or Lubos Reiter. With DeRo you know what you're getting. How many allocations will an expansion team get? I see RSL had three and Chivas only used two of theirs (though brought in enough names I don't see how some of those guys weren't allocations). That still leaves an allocation for a 'Beckham rule' player, though would you even need an allocation for that since it seems that they are sort of outside the normal path these things are done. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacRWE Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I have been thinking, this is a total crazy idea but if we do get that "marketing player" whats with Del Piero? how old will he be in 2007? Could it be possible that he sees a future in Toronto and the MLS. he would be a massive marketing tool and he can still play! he is one of the most talented guys I have ever seen, thats for sure! I'm not 100 per cent on the salery rules, is it true that one "marquee" player can make an unlimited amount? If so, Del Piero COULD be a cinderella fit! He has draw prowess and skills. MLSE have the money, thats for sure! This is just my thought, I dont want to start crazy rumors, but I just want to see what evryone thinks. I do have a feeling that DeRo may test the English waters weather it be the prem or CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by zacRWEI'm not 100 per cent on the salery rules, is it true that one "marquee" player can make an unlimited amount? That is what was discussed at the board of governors meeting in Dallas at the MLS Cup. It was suggested that AEG wanted to go after Beckham (likely for MetroStars) and it has been dubbed the 'Beckham rule.' That being said it is not, as of yet, official, but it is being discussed and 2007 is a long ways off. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enb17 Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 The MLS used to be more specific with Player Allocation a few years ago and now its more up in the air and I think the main reason is most clubs feel bringing in an establish MLS player is more benificial then a so called star. An example was FC Dallas bringing in Ruiz from the Galaxy instead of an allocation spot and LA using it on Donavon instead of a forign player. My guess is the Toronto team could get any other Canadian National Player without using an allocation spot outside of maybe Redzinski, Salterri, and De Guzman. I think Del Piero or his likes could be a possibility although I think Del Piero already makes enough money he wouldn't need to play in the MLS but to throw some names out there how about the Inzaghi brothers or ex-EPL players who are no longer in the top division like Paul Ince, Nick Barmby, Muzzy Izzet and so on. If it was my choice I would grab a player who is good with Free and Corner Kicks because in my opinion these types of players are laking in the MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 My question is this... ...seems there's lots of pining for Canadians of yesteryear long past their prime Why is nobody in TO talking about getting new, SOLID players who can win them a cup? One or two Pesch's and Radz's of the world ain't gonna cut it against a competitive league full of fast, skilled youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster My question is this... ...seems there's lots of pining for Canadians of yesteryear long past their prime Why is nobody in TO talking about getting new, SOLID players who can win them a cup? I agree. I don't think bringing Pesch and DeVos and Radzinski back are going to be the path to glory. For a start they'd struggle to pay them all and bring back aging players has been a real mixed bag for MLS. If I were Toronto I'd sign Tyler Rosenlund to a Generation Adidas deal, I'd lock up guys like Gala, Owunsu-Ansah (sp?), Attakora-Gyan and Oliviera to deals and get a solid core of young domestic players groomed in your system. And I'd try to get guys like Sutton, Braz, Jordan and Gervais to be relatively cheap domestic players who would either start or play big minutes. The key besides a good Superdraft and a few good foreign SIs and three Yank SI is finding a handful of Canadians who you can afford and who can start and be every day guys. If you're using your money on bringing older Candians back you won't get the SIs you need to be competitive IMO and there’s no guarantee a guy like Pesch will light up MLS. Heck Bunbury was solid, but not amazing, the year he was healthy in KC and I think he was in better form than Pesch is now, he’s certainly younger. The league is much stronger than it was six years ago. Realistically your draft picks (who will mostly be YIs I'm assuming) won't be ready to take big minutes. That leaves your SIs (and I can't see them locking up eight SIs who are worth a start every week) and your Canadians. If the USL teams lock up all of the solid pros who look ready to do the job (and can you see MLS paying transfer fees to Montreal? Me neither), then they're going to have to go abroad to grab guys and even if they get them on a Bosman, it's going to really make it difficult to offer our Euro-based Canucks enough money to come home. The USL could make live difficult for them in the short term and I think they know that. Someone on another thread said something like “MLSE will spend the money”. That’s not the point. MLS spends the money and they have a set limit to spend. And if you look at MLS salaries it ain’t much. Will Johnson’s massive $11,000 salary may be nice for an 18-year-old, but it sure ain’t going to keep him Chicago if he got a trial in England. For SIs I'd look for solid pros, not names to try to contribute. The list of EPL/CCC veterans who went down in flames is long and glorious. One of the main reasons is that I think the pace and style of MLS doesn't suit your run of the mill EPL/CCC player. A top end guy will adapt wherever, but the average guy has struggled. Heck as a KC fan I recall the great Richard Gough coming to Arrowhead. And he was dreadful. And the next year he was starting for Everton. It's not like he went from good to crap to good again, I just thought either he didn't take MLS seriously at all, or he was completely out of his element. Chicago Fire are the benchmark of how to create an Expansion team. They grabbed the greatest collection of SIs in league history (Petr Nowak, Lubos Kubik, Jerzy Podbrozny and Jorge Campos) and had they grabbed an amazing group of players either through expansion draft, the MLS draft, trades or free agent signings. Chris Armas, Ante Razov, Zach Thornton and CJ Brown were all relative unknowns who went on to get US caps. Josh Wolff was a P40 allocation IIRC and didn’t even start, but set a record for goals by a rookie. Their big name (besides Nowak I suppose) was Campos and their other big allocation was Frankie Klopas who came back from Greece and didn’t produce nearly as well as Wolff did. Given Thonton’s play and their talent up front, Campos wasn’t even starting and left the team. In addition they picked up glue players like Francis Okaroh, Jesse Marsch and Diego Gutierrez in the Expansion draft. Marsch and Gutierrez were still in the league seven years later. That’s a title team because they got good SIs (namely Nowak, Kubik and Podbrozny) and they did very, very well with domestic players. Toronto has all sorts of advantages — more SIs, YIs which didn’t exist then, a nearly wide open pool of domestics to pick from and a reserve league from which to scout for the expansion draft — but we’ll have to see if they take advantage of them. My rambling two bits . . . cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enb17 Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Hey Matthew You really know your soccer and the MLS. I agree with you full heartly about the direction the team should go although I'm not sure how important the super draft is going to be for the Toronto MLS team because I assume they prefer young Canadian players over American players and in the past the super draft hasn't been done that well when it comes to Canadian players. So if the Toronto MLS team is smart they would trade there super draft players and sign good young Canadian Players as free agents. Some of the work I do for a living involves soccer scouting reports and statistical observations mostly with European teams but also the MLS. What I'm currently doing is putting together a list of 50 to 100 players that the Toronto MLS team should keep an eye on and when I'm finished this list I will post it on the board but some of the players you mentioned are certinaly on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Chet I'd go for the "well-known soccer player close to retirement." Someone like DeVos, Peschisolido, or Radzinski. Who's to say they'd come home? I doubt you'll see Pesch here any time soon, what with his wife in charge at Birmingham and his kids growing up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Pesch will be 36 by that time anyway. He might be able to contribute to a Toronto MLS team by that point, but I doubt moreso that any number of young Canucks would be able to. He's not a name that will draw fans that aren't going to be coming to the games in Toronto anyway, so why shell out the cash to sign him? Not going to happen. There will be some Canucks that return home, but I don't think he'll be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 You've got Serioux. Then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by enb17 Hey Matthew You really know your soccer and the MLS. I agree with you full heartly about the direction the team should go although I'm not sure how important the super draft is going to be for the Toronto MLS team because I assume they prefer young Canadian players over American players and in the past the super draft hasn't been done that well when it comes to Canadian players. So if the Toronto MLS team is smart they would trade there super draft players and sign good young Canadian Players as free agents. Thanks enb17 and welcome to the board. Using 2005 as an example I think the talent in the Superdraft was higher than that of the Expansion Draft. Or at least the potential talent. Given that I would put more importance on the Superdraft and perhaps peddle my Expansion draft picks if possible. Finding YIs can be tricky, but with the Superdraft all of your American-born picks should fit that category. Depending on how long they have their extra American SI slots, the best YIs can transition into those spots or just become regular SIs. Or they might have some trade value. Now if you can swap a couple of Superdraft picks for an established Canadian MLS starter (DeRosario unless someone else emerges) then I'd take that. But otherwise I think those Superdraft picks are pretty valuable. For the 07 NCAA grads from Canada, there aren't a lot of guys I can see anyone else drafting. I'd say Wagenaar is the best bet and that's no guarantee. So why not hold off on drafting Canadians and see if you can get a couple of strong American players. I'm looking forward to your list. I'm a bit of a draft geek and I enjoy expansion teams and such, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what Toronto does when/if the time comes. Do you work for isfa.com? If so it's a great site. Keep it up. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enb17 Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 quote:Originally posted by matthew I just did a deal to be part owner in the site. So me and my partners are trying to bring the site back to what it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Another big question is DeRosario going to go to europe? I read somewhere that there is some teams having a look at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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