WCQ on temporary grass surface.

[G-Man]

Watched the US game from Salt Lake being played on a temporary grass surface. Further debunking of the "Can't play WC games at the Skydome" myth.

And it was further proof that a SSS isn't needed for the U-20 World Cup. Throw down a pitch for 3-4 games and play it in an existing stadia. No need for a new white elephant used 8-10 times a year.

[Free kick]

And if it rains, you would have to cancel the game and you would have pissed the installation costs of 200K-500K down the drain . Thats the problem with temporary surfaces; water does not drain well and gets trapped by the concrete base. Hence turning the surface into porrige.

Also, these stadiums are not designed and built for soccer and that makes it harder to sell the game and enhance the experience. They're built for baseball. Thats why they're moving towards SSS in the US. I' should also ask you the same question that someone else asked you before, How can anyone who supports the game be against SSS in Canada.

[Elias]

The problem with the Dome WCQ's is not the field. It's the fact that 10 000 people would show up. And cheer for the opposition. (Yeah, yeah, it would probably be the same at a new stadium. But hopefully a new stadium would get people to come out, more soccer, more interest, blah, blah, blah - we've been over this 3.72-Billion times, and maybe more people cheering for Canada than against).

As for the WYC, I always thought it would be popular enough to fill the Dome. But the point is, this will be the only chance to get the $35-million from the govt's, this will be the only chance for soccer to get such a huge profile in this country, blah, blah, blah (4.93-Billion times), so Canadian soccer must take advantage of this opportunity.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

And if it rains, you would have to cancel the game and you would have pissed the installation costs of 200K-500K down the drain . Thats the problem with temporary surfaces; water does not drain well and gets trapped by the concrete base. Hence turning the surface into porrige.

Also, these stadiums are not designed and built for soccer and that makes it harder to sell the game and enhance the experience. They're built for baseball. Thats why they're moving towards SSS in the US. I' should also ask you the same question that someone else asked you before, How can anyone who supports the game be against SSS in Canada.

The Olympic Stadium was designed for the Olympics and played host to "Olympic" soccer finals and tournament. The Skydome is a great place for soccer. The site lines are good and the facility is state of the art. Not a porto pottie to be seen or a temporary seat to found.

It would a huge step up from anything being used now, including a new 20000 seat cement bowl or what is being built for the Impact.

The problem with either is how do you hide the empty seats. But they’re having this problem in LA with the SS Home Depot center as well.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

[The Olympic Stadium was designed for the Olympics and played host to "Olympic" soccer finals and tournament.

The big Owe had a natural ( Not artificial ) surface when the the olympics were held there. It was built to first for the olmpics..

[DoyleG]

Rice-Eccles isn't on the FIFA approved list of sites.

The Meadowlands had grass orginally installed in order to support the Metrostars. Yet people hated the turf and they ended up installing FieldTurf and got the thumbs up from FIFA.

Of course the Jays were whinners when the idea of Field Turf in the Rogers Centre was first discussed.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Then how does the US soccer federation play games there? If would seem that the FIFA list you speak of, isn't that important or enforceable.

As for the Olympic Stadium and Skydome, the point is that temp grass would do the trick as it did at Rice-Eccles.

[Daniel]

SLC is not on the FIFA list for artificial turf, but anyone can play on grass.

People talking about these big stadiums and "natural" grass and everything: does ANYONE remember the WCQ in Edmonton (empty stands, garbage surface)???

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

SLC is not on the FIFA list for artificial turf, but anyone can play on grass.

People talking about these big stadiums and "natural" grass and everything: does ANYONE remember the WCQ in Edmonton (empty stands, garbage surface)???

So you saying that an Italy-England U-20 WC game in Montreal would draw less than 40,000? I think we're selling the U-20 WC short by sticking them into small 15k venues. Also rememeber Edmonton with 50K to watch Brazil and the pitch was wonderful. Rain will do that- even to the best of pitches.

A CSL type league would need stadium in the 8000 range. I'd rather see the 35 million go to funding a Pan-Canadian league for 7 years at 5 million a pop.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

How can anyone who supports the game be against SSS in Canada.

Depends if I'm thinking with my heart or my head.

My heart says build a dozen SS stadiums (and then use them in a Canadian national league).

My head tells me that a 20,000+-seat stadium should not be built in the GTA just for the U20 WC and Canadian NT matches. That's not enough usage and would be a waste of money.

It's a different situation if MLS is added to the mix (which I am against for other reasons, but I'll accept for the purpose of this discussion) — by which I mean add a guarantee that MLS will come, with legal commitments and all that, no "if you build it they will come", none of this MLSE blabbing about what they'll do after a stadium is built because their word is less trustworthy than the Argos' (plus, they should chip in for stadium costs, too). But even with MLS, I have huge doubts about whether it/MLSE would last, so we could end up with a white elephant, anyway.

I think that SkyDome should be used for the U20 WC (no problem with rain or enhancing the experience (see ChampionsWorld matches) here). I don't like the way that some people are trying to rush a stadium to get it built in time for 2007. Without thinking things through (even simple things like "what are we going to do with this thing later?"), we're bound to regret it later.

As for WCQ, we need a longer-term solution in the GTA. Without guarantees that a big stadium would be used for more than NT matches, I say look at a 10,000-seat stadium that would be more appropriate for "minor-league" sports (including the Lynx) yet still useful for NT matches (with SkyDome available if something bigger is required). I know people will say that this would limit MLS possibilities, but I say again, anyone interested in bringing MLS to Toronto should step up and put their money where their mouth is.

So I think I am agreeing with G-Man here.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

So you saying that an Italy-England U-20 WC game in Montreal would draw less than 40,000? I think we're selling the U-20 WC short by sticking them into small 15k venues. Also rememeber Edmonton with 50K to watch Brazil and the pitch was wonderful. Rain will do that- even to the best of pitches.

A CSL type league would need stadium in the 8000 range. I'd rather see the 35 million go to funding a Pan-Canadian league for 7 years at 5 million a pop.

Did you receive your diploma from the School of Poor Arguments or are you finishing up your summer class in Poor Examples?

The WYC is not about ONE "England-Italy" (or two of the most popular teams). It is about every game: In 2005, there will be games like Benin-Autralia, Panama-Turkey, China-Ukraine, Chile-Honduras, Egypt-USA, Canada-Syria, Nigeria-Switzerlnad. These games would not attract more than 5k at the Big O (if even that). Look at the 2001 Canada games in Argentina (1k in a 30k stadium). You need to make the tickets a hot commodity so people will be happy to see any game and assure an evenly-distributed attendance pattern. What is the point of 40k for Italy-England if the other games get 2k? It'd be better for the organizing commitee to get 8k-15k at each game.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

People talking about these big stadiums and "natural" grass and everything: does ANYONE remember the WCQ in Edmonton (empty stands, garbage surface)???

Yeah. Also, its not that different in the "soccer mad" natons either. Thats why they move the games around to smaller locations and reserve the big venues for the more prestigious/reputable opponents.

I agree, and have stated before, that commonwealth is definitely too big. The crowd was disapointing for the WCQ last summer, but on the other hand it would not have been reasonable to expect the place to sell out. Not for a WCQ semifinal round match versus Honduras. A one game take all for WCQ against mexico might do the trick. But for everyone else a 20-25K facility is what you need.

[sj]

a competitive team would have filled commonwealth

After the garbage that was displayed on tv the field in Vancover against Guatemala peoples did not want to get ripped off by the CSA.

they already knew that this was going to be yet another failed campaign.

no city is going to rush into building a brand new stadium for soccer mainly because Canada seldom play friendly games high profile on home soil

the Montreal stadium is going to be built mainly for the impact.

the stadium will be put in good use and there will be no problem filling it because the quality of the product on the field on a regular basis is adequate.

the problem the 35 millions may be conditional upon the construction of a stadium.

if that the case lets build one if we are going to lose the grant build it somewhere if we have to.

the CSA wants it in Toronto in case their own product does not cut the mustard and is out of the tournament after the second game

a Senario that we are ever so familiar with

At least they can count on the large ethnics contingent to fill the place up beyong the first two games.

if the money is their solely for the stadium no need to save the feds some money by putting temporary grass in the Rogers centre

something that would be vanished in two weeks

prefer to see Richarson getting a face lift would be more beneficial for soccer in the long run than blowing 400g's on a temporary grass surface that will be turn permanently into compost in less than 2 weeks

unless there is going to be some world champion series games prior to the u-20 tournament and that the surface would already be there and paid for to a certain degree by the promoters.

[Daniel]

You're giving the average Canadian soccer poetential spectator too much credit. Even with a 5-0 win in Vancouver, we wouldn't have seen 15k in Edmonton.

[sj]

with montreal having a grass surface stadium there is no reason why we should use Edmonton entirely when the team is going to draw sub 15k figure

Make the product you are trying to sell attractive and you will get repeat custoners and you can build on that

we drop three points at home to a team we took too lightly and it was plain ugly.

dont think the impact would be drawing 12k pt they were playing

that ugly even if they were playing at a Stade de france calibre stadium.

you acn ahve the nicest boutique on the block but if the qaulity of your product is poor peoples will only be bitten once

taking care of customers expectations is what build customers loyalty and trust.

FiFa trusted the CSA and so far no sight of a Staduim Being built in Toronto that was the Corner stone of the winning bid

Soccer fans trusted the CSA that our world cup team was going to create excitement in the Qualifying phase and those who pais 35 dollars got ripped off,

everything that the CSA does is very skecthy

our U-20 boys was cut short a tune up game by leaving so many thing up to the last minute

all those things are due lack of proper planification

and lack of ideas of how to deal with escalading situation

[trueviking]

yes, there are other ways to host the tournament, besides building a new stadium (grass in skydome), but that would be a real lost opportunity....one of the main reasons that FIFA gave the games to canada was to help promote the game in our country...the legacy that the games would create is far more important in the long run than a couple of weeks of youth football...your patchwork solution is short sighted and does nothing for the game in this country at all....

the fact is that there is 35 million dollars set aside by the government to construct a stadium, that will have great benefit for the game in canada for the next 20 years.....it is not 35 million dollars that the CSA gets to pick and choose what it uses it for...if they do not build a stadium, it will be spent on other things like filling potholes or something....it isnt free money up for grabs...it is for a stadium and thats it...if toronto cant take that money, (which is twice what the impact owner is spending)and build a decent park with it, then it would be a real shame...and an opportunity lost for soccer in canada.

[Cheeta]

Just to add a "wee" bit and drag yet another topic into the Great Stadium Debate. With a big old envelope of Crown cashola paying for this hopeful new stadium it creates a situation for the CSA were it has to use the stadium.

Now if it's under 20s, senior womens, senior mens or whatever after seeing that sort of commitment of goverment funding into the stadium project it's going to have to be something.

The CSA won't be able to use a dozen Argos games as a cruch anymore to point to the value the goverment got by funding the park. And as things stand now, it's going to have to be used for soccer events. Because it'll have to be used. End of story.

If it ain't I'll bet all the blah, blah, blahing in the world isn't going to save some senior heads at the CSA. Not after some senior polititions bet 10s of millions of dollars on an infastructure project that's gone sour and made them look like a bunch of stupid assholes.

So if the CSA is painted into a corner where they've been gifted a stadium and have to be seen using it then we've sort of reached a cross roads in the evolution of the CSA.

That is to say we'll end up with our National Stadium. The six or eight "bigger" events (at least) that the CSA will have to put on every year will go to this NS by proxy. Unless some other association formulates their own events I think it unlikely that you'd see any significant event held outside of Toronto. Not as things stand now.

Hmm. Regular NT soccer events in the Toronto area. In an albeit smaller but more soccer friendly stadium. Where the CSA is the principal tennant. Sometimes you luck out I guess. End up with what you need, and not so much what you want.

Cool. Cheeta like.