Blue and White Army Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 About 10 weeks old, but haven't seen this on here yet. --- Bees cry foul over QPR four Ealing Times November 20, 2003 By James Webb http://www.ealingtimes.co.uk/sport/qpr/rangers/display.var.434659.0.bees_cry_foul_over_qpr_four.php THE behaviour of four Queens Park Rangers players after their match against local rivals Brentford has sparked a war of words between the two clubs. Brentford's communications manager Peter Gilham has accused Kevin McLeod, Marc Bircham, Kevin Gallen and former Brentford player Martin Rowlands of inciting Bees fans as Rangers celebrated their 1-0 win at Loftus Road on November 11. He said that both Bircham and Gallen went towards the Brentford supporters after the final whistle and made prolonged celebratory gestures while Rowlands and McLeod kissed the badge on their shirt directly in front of the away end of the stadium. Gilham sent letters of complaint to the Football Association, the Football League and to QPR, in which he described the four players as "mindless idiots" who should be warned of the consequences of such actions. He added: "A great deal of debate has gone on over the years as to whether or not violence off the pitch is related to actions upon it. "It was only the restraint shown by law abiding Brentford supporters, and indeed maybe others who on another day would have been seen as 'mindless idiots', that prevented actions which would have been in direct contravention of the message you [Queens Park Rangers] are rightly promoting." And Gilham urged Rangers act in order to defuse any ill feeling he felt would be rife as the result of their actions in time for February's return fixture at Griffin Park. Rangers spokesman Phil Harris said the club had taken on board what had been said in the letter and had reminded players of their responsibilities. He added: "Chief Executive David Davies has forwarded a reply to Brentford's Communications Manager underlining Rangers' commitment to impeccable behaviour both on and off the pitch at QPR. "Although we were disappointed that the original letter was placed on public record before its arrival at Loftus Road, we are keen to ensure that good relations between both clubs are maintained and we are greatly looking forward to the return match on February 14 at Griffin Park." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Georgio Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I used to question Holger's decision about this ****er, but now I don't. Why do people support this guy. He's not Canadian, he's not that good (only adds a little depth) and he's a headcase that should not be representative of our country. Wearing the club jersey under his canadian outfit so that when he takes it off in a celebration people can see where his heart truly lies does not invoke pride in me. Maybe if he was wearing a Lynx, Mustang, Impact, even a Canucks jersey underneath I would feel as though he is truly happy to be playing for Canada. There is this article which points to disrespect and then there is his table manners according to Holger. To much crap from a mediocre player with the touch of an elephant. Sure he sings the National anthem but it appears in mockery, afterall he did learn the words on Southpark. And yes he put's a lot of effort into his play, but that can purely be explained by the fact that he loves soccer, and the battle that ensues within competition. I know some people are going to disagree with me here but this is the gut feeling I get about this guy. He's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 That's how I've always felt, Georgio, but a lot of people think we are in such dire need of depth that we need to take on British castaways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 He may be good to have around as depth so I wouldn't write him off unless he is causing problems within the team which doesn't seem to be the case so far (it was Holger he couldn't get along with not his teammates, nor was he the only one who didn't get along with Holger). I am also not very high on his soccer abilities but there are situations when a physical, energetic player may be required or where injuries may make him the best available replacement. Based on his recent play, were I Yallop I probably wouldn't call him unless injuries required me to do so and even then would probably only use him as a sub but there is certainly no need to drive him out unless he is causing problems in the team chemistry. I would, however, definitely insist that he take off the QPR jersey as this is disrespectful to Canada and the team does need some discipline even under the more relaxed regime of Yallop. And if you are going to make any exceptions for players, do it for top notch guys like Radz and not for mediocre ones like Bircham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Every team needs a big heart/high energy guy like Bircham. He is not Canada’s savior, but he should be a depth player. I really wonder how much slack he would get if he were born and raised in Canada? Nobody seems to question Jason Bent’s skills, yet he and Bircham play similar roles on second division teams. I think many of his Canadian detractors are moral pursuits from the OH debate. To those people I say "retreat from the high ground boys…and come back to the slim pickings/high politics that is Canadian football!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I have my beliefs and I stick to them. I don't compromise myself just so Canada gets better on the pitch. Doing so would make me no better than the people I criticize. Call it the high ground, I call it conviction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I'd take Bent over Bircham anyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 every country in the word has no problem sucking up foreign athletes to better their own teams or federations...the americans do it all the time in tennis (lendl, navratilova), hockey (hull), and even soccer (adu). greg rudsedski, owen hargraves, and lennox lewis all learned their trades in canada and were welcomed by other countries to compete for them at the highest levels. The french, swiss and germans wouldnt even have olympic hockey teams without using canadian players. bircham seems to have gone out of his way to embrace playing for canada and since holger quit, has shown more enthusiasm and heart on the pitch than most of the other players on the national team. i dont care that he has never played street hockey, or had his car stuck in a snow bank, or had his tongue frozen to the monkey bars when he was a kid, he gives it his all on the pitch when he puts on the maple leaf. That is all I ask of someone who wants to represent my country. I am proud to have a good ol' winnipeg boy like bircham represent me on the international stage. we should all stop whining about this...do you think there are english football chat rooms forever complaining that hargraves isnt british enough. if he helps them win. they dont care and neither should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Well there was that whole debate about a certain Swedish coach not fitting the Brit archtypical coaching mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Some have loose standards, some don't. I've always found it ridiculous when people like Lendl or Navratilova or Rusedski change allegiances to suit their ambition. You are what you are, and Bircham will never be Canadian, just like Hargreaves will never be Enlish and Seles will never be American. People who cried foul when Hargreaves, Rusedski, Hull or Lennox Lewis jumped ship but welcome Bircham with open arms are hypocrits. Freddy Adu is a completely different scenario. To start, the boy is 14. If someone came to Canada at 14 and decided to become a Canadian citizen I would have no problem with that. But Adu hasn't just moved to America, he's been there several years. My Hall of Nationality Shame: Owen Hargreaves Mark Bircham Lennox Lewis Marcel Desailly Monica Seles Martina Navratilova Ivan Lendl Alfredo di Stefano (who started the trend) Greg Rusedski Ben Johnson Brett Hull This could be a fun list...I'll start a thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 i agree with you, hargraves, rudsedski and lewis are traitors, because they learned their trades in a country and left only for money to become professionals in larger, more lucrative markets. i am just saying however that if every country does it...why shouldnt we. in a perfect world it wouldnt happen, but thats the way it is, so why debate it and lets just accept it. if its good enough for england...a top ten team...it should certainly be good enough for the 87th ranked team. i am sure the people in ghana disagree with your feelings about adu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 You're probably right about Ghana. But if a child grows up in a country (and yes, I consider 10-14 years old being a child), then it's natural to develop a real sense of what it is to be a part of that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 i agree...i wonder why we only accept it if a person spends the first ten years of their life in a country. why, if they spend ages 15-25, or 25-35 in a country do we consider them traitors for not associating with the country that they spent their early years in? i think as far as athletics go, a player should represent the country in which he learned the game. if a 15 year old is whisked off to play for a dutch youth team, because he was excelling in canada, then i think it is not right to represent any other country than canada even if he lives in hoplland for the next 20 years. if he moves to a country when he is 10 and becomes good at a sport using all the resources (coaching, financing etc.) of that country, then he should represent that country, regardless of where he was born. if the rest of the world doesnt agree with this though, then we should just accept their rules and make the best team we can. why punish ourselves. also....bircham is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow Freddy Adu is a completely different scenario. To start, the boy is 14. If someone came to Canada at 14 and decided to become a Canadian citizen I would have no problem with that. But Adu hasn't just moved to America, he's been there several years. ... Ben Johnson This could be a fun list...I'll start a thread Ben Johnson was just a kid when he came to Canada. Why is Adu exempt and not Johnson? Johnson should perhaps be in a sports hall of shame somewhere (although it now appears that there may not have been a clean runner in the Seoul 100 m. finals) but not for leaving Jamaica when he was a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Gordon you're right, I put the name down without knowing the whole story. My bad. (also, he's an easy target ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Let’s play a quiz: “Which Canadian internationals are really “Canadians?” Tony Menezes? Using the litmus test that many Voyageurs seem to advocate, Tony is probably not Canadian. Tony was born in Mississauga, but he did not spend his development years in Canada. (His family left at age 10.) Frank Yallop? Strangely, our new Canadian coach may not be Canadian either. He was born in England, and moved to Canada at age 10. He left Canada again at 19 to play for Ipswich. Are Elliot Godfrey and David Masciantonio “traitors?” Obviously, I am being sarcastic, but I just can’t see the value of defining the “Canadianess” of any of our boys. I just think that once they are capped by us we should support them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 To reply to your cases: Yallop, according to your facts, spent 9 of his development years in Canada, and chose to play for Canada. Canadian. Elliot Godfrey and David Masciantonio spent their first 15 or so years developping in Canada and play for the National team. Don't see why you chose to bring them up. What I won't do is fully accept mercenaries into the team. Of course if I'm in Kingston for a World Cup qualifier and Bircham scores, I'll cheer. But in the back of my mind I'll think "too bad a Canadian didn't score that goal". I might even say it out loud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Godfrey left Canada at age 6, Masciantonio left Canada at age 3 & doesn't speak French or English (or didn't back in September). I'm partially responsible for Godfrey playing for Canada, as I alerted the CSA to the fact that he was Canadian. Does that make me a traitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 You didn’t mention what you thought about Tony Menezes. Since he spent his formative years in Brazil I guess you think he is a mercenary? That is kind of sad!! He does have something like 30 caps for us? Also, are you sure that Elliot Godfrey and David Masciantonio spent as many years in Canada as you suggest? I thought that they both left when they were young (i.e. under 10).(I could be wrong...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Thanks Gian-Luca...I guess I was right for a change:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Maybe someone could shed some light on the Menezes story? I hate to make uninformed decisions, as I obviously just did with Godfrey and Masciantonio. As for those 2 cases...I guess, in my opinion, that the choice is theirs since they were born here and developped elsewhere. Hope I'm not playing both sides by saying that (I don't think I am...anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Mimglow, you fraud!!!!!!!!! Hehehe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by trueviking ...or had his car stuck in a snow bank, or had his tongue frozen to the monkey bars when he was a kid... Ahhh, yes. I almost forgot there's only two kinds of Canada: Inuit territory, and Vancouver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue and White Army Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 Elliott Godfrey has a maple leaf tattoo. So piss off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 No one had a problem when Bircham was 'inciting' the Northern Irish fans by running over to them, kissing the CSA logo and letting them know who was number one. I don't like the QPR shirt thing and I don't think he's a starter, but he seems to be good in the room and a guy that keeps things loose. He's a good dead ball guy and he's full of enthusiasm. I don't remember this much debate about him when we first capped him. That was pre-OH, but still. We've had a lot of guy with distant ties (Carl Valentine anyone?) over the years. Hell we still have guys who barely speak either official language (Menezes hadn't spoken English in 15 years until we capped him). I don't like the 'grandfather' rule either, but he's capped to us so we might as well use him if we need him. I don't think he's a loose cannon and I think he's quite funny. The South Park line was obviously a joke, as was his explanation of the spelling of his first name "well I'm French Canadian then ain't I?" cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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