kj52 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I'm putting this link to a recent SDRCC decision as a response to those who feel that the SDRCC is the best path to follow. http://www.crdsc-sdrcc.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/0_SDRCC%2010-0124.pdf I think this case shows that the CSA, far from having a consistent appeals policy, cherry picks their policy depending on what and who is involved. Also this is a good example that shows the SDRCC does not consider itself to be the appropriate venue for all sport decisions. In this dispute we are in it is convenient for CSA to say the proper procedure is SDRCC because that benefits them, they would say the exact opposite if it was to the advantage of the Executive and would use their appeals committee. The whole discipline process is a farce when you have a governing body or bodies that have no respect for due process. Besides if they think they'll lose they just don't participate. Like this: http://www.crdsc-sdrcc.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/0_SDRCC%2005-0034.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1867 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 So-in reality this appeals program is set up to deal with disputes over fundng for coaches officials and athletes and not governance issues like who is the Board of a provincial association. It is interesting that CSA in the Quebec case denied jurisdiction to the Board and advocated a narrow jurisdiction on a matter that would seem to be more up SDRCC jusisdicton-the movement of players- but in our case they are saying we should arbitrate Billings suspension. Seems to me that since many districts dont recognise Marios group because of the SGM Mario should be told to arbitrate it. I recall this same advice beng given to Eiysa after they won at CSA appeals and at Court they were told to go to arbitration even though they won. They were told that CSA was not in a positon to hear appeals of provncial matters. Mastraeci didnt tell the loser-ASA -to apply for it. CSA does indeed pick and choose. If things arent going well for CSA at SDRCC they can merely pull out or deny jurisdiction and the Mario group could pull out as well or the SDRCC could merely say they do not have jurisdiction. Now you may have some idea why the members of ASA have gone to Court again against their wayward leaders. If CSA wants to insist that people go to arbitration and stay out of court then they need to create a timely mechansm that gets the parties before arbitration-they have to define what matters can go there-they have to make it mandatory that parties that are referred by them to arbitration go there and submit to jurisdiction. Currently there is no consistency and this recommendation by CSA on arbitration appears to be a cop out and not a viable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 1, 2010 Author Share Posted August 1, 2010 Are there any statistics regarding the number of visits to the reform alberta soccer website and possibly even around the demographics of who is visiting (how many visitors from Alberta vs. visitors from other parts of canada)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_coach_in_ab Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Are there any statistics regarding the number of visits to the reform alberta soccer website and possibly even around the demographics of who is visiting (how many visitors from Alberta vs. visitors from other parts of canada)? This is from Noon on the 28th to present. Analytics_www.reformalbertasoccer.com_20100728-20100731_(GeoMapReport).pdf Analytics_www.reformalbertasoccer.com_20100728-20100731_(GeoMapReport)-2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeg51 Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Some of us are .. ok at least one is... on holiday hence some of the strange foreign hits. This is an important issue for me, so want to keep up to date, if only from onternet cafes on the road... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_coach_in_ab Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Some of us are .. ok at least one is... on holiday hence some of the strange foreign hits. This is an important issue for me, so want to keep up to date, if only from onternet cafes on the road... Hopefully you subscribed to the changelog on the site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeg51 Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Will do coach.. I really appreciate that site. It's a great reference work for anyone wanting a clear, unbiased summary of the situation, to come and see for themselves how desperately "prinicple" impoverished the purported leadership of ASA had become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 3, 2010 Author Share Posted August 3, 2010 Hopefully you subscribed to the changelog on the site Am I the only one who has had trouble subscribing to the changelog? When I select that option the website always times out on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_coach_in_ab Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Am I the only one who has had trouble subscribing to the changelog? When I select that option the website always times out on me. fixed, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtreme Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 just checking if this thread is still working. It's been very quiet lately. T3 Provincials are this weekend. I haven't heard of any problems in scheduling or hosts, etc. lately. Good luck to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 5, 2010 Author Share Posted August 5, 2010 just checking if this thread is still working. It's been very quiet lately. T3 Provincials are this weekend. I haven't heard of any problems in scheduling or hosts, etc. lately. Good luck to all. It sounds like everything is proceeding nicely with provincials. All districts remain in good standing. Good Luck to all in the coming weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Missed this earlier from Dan Barnes at the Edmonton Journal. (Don't think it has been posted yet). It was 'buried' in an article covering other topics as well. "How much money do you think the warring factions in the Alberta Soccer Association dispute have spent on legal fees? ASA president Chris Billings said his board and the associations that support his group have spent about $50,000 for legal opinions leading up to a special general meeting in April, hiring an independent chair at the SGM, defending a legal action launched by vice-president Mario Charpentier's rival board, additional legal opinions and advice in May and June, and costs for the current lawsuits filed against Charpentier and others. The other side won't return my calls, but if they only match the Billings group, it's already $100,000. There is every chance they have spent more, since they initiated these proceedings with their campaign to suspend Billings. That total is also going to rise if a $250,000 wrongful dismissal suit launched by former executive director Salvi Cammaratta gets to court. He's one of a handful of ASA employees who were sacked or suspended by Charpentier's group". Read the full article here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 Missed this earlier from Dan Barnes at the Edmonton Journal. (Don't think it has been posted yet). It was 'buried' in an article covering other topics as well. "How much money do you think the warring factions in the Alberta Soccer Association dispute have spent on legal fees? ASA president Chris Billings said his board and the associations that support his group have spent about $50,000 for legal opinions leading up to a special general meeting in April, hiring an independent chair at the SGM, defending a legal action launched by vice-president Mario Charpentier's rival board, additional legal opinions and advice in May and June, and costs for the current lawsuits filed against Charpentier and others. The other side won't return my calls, but if they only match the Billings group, it's already $100,000. There is every chance they have spent more, since they initiated these proceedings with their campaign to suspend Billings. That total is also going to rise if a $250,000 wrongful dismissal suit launched by former executive director Salvi Cammaratta gets to court. He's one of a handful of ASA employees who were sacked or suspended by Charpentier's group". Read the full article here. The amount of money being spend really make my head spin. I don't believe any volunteer director from either side is so invaluable to the cause of soccer in Alberta that the expense is justified. The only justification that works in my mind is that if the money spent eventually leads to a complete governance reform in Alberta and assists in obtaining the required governance reform at the CSA level then the money being spent may be a worthwhile investment. Perhaps after this ugly mess is over ASA will be able to go years with minimal legal fees and that money can be invested in technical improvements on the soccer field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 You would think that some of that expensive legal advice could have been used to prevent $250,000 wrongful dismissal suits. It would be cheaper to get advice first and act later, something simple that seems to have been lost on some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 You would think that some of that expensive legal advice could have been used to prevent $250,000 wrongful dismissal suits. It would be cheaper to get advice first and act later, something simple that seems to have been lost on some people. Makes me even more curious to know what was in the original opinion letter from Gowlings about suspending Billings. Did Mario and group follow the advise given to the letter or did they pick and choose the pieces that allowed them to justify their actions? I know it is just an opinion letter but Mario and Group have widely publicized other legal opinions so I find it curious that this one remains buried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1867 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Well OC-they have published the other "gowlings opinion" but other than mentioning this Gowlings opinion as their whole reason to suspend billings and cause this whole mess they have never released it. Really makes you wonder why. Now on the topic of legal opinions i was perusing CSA material and found that they use Gowlings for some of their legal work too. Interesting fact to say the least given the fact that the ASA charpentier group uses Gowlings too. I am not saying Gowlings has done anything illegal per se but there are conflict rules in place for law firms. Wouldnt a firm see this as a conflict of interest? i am not sure if Gowlings has offices all over Canada but I would think that one office would be affilitated to the other and some red flags for conflict would come up. Another conflict is that gowlings was the ASA lawyer and has done work for the Board prior to the recent blow up but then when there was a dispute amongst the board that went to court in calgary we saw Gowlings act for some board members against other Board members. How can this not be a conflict? Even now they are doing so. Maybe someone who knows more about this area could comment. I am just not sure this passes most peoples sniff test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 Well OC-they have published the other "gowlings opinion" but other than mentioning this Gowlings opinion as their whole reason to suspend billings and cause this whole mess they have never released it. Really makes you wonder why. Now on the topic of legal opinions i was perusing CSA material and found that they use Gowlings for some of their legal work too. Interesting fact to say the least given the fact that the ASA charpentier group uses Gowlings too. I am not saying Gowlings has done anything illegal per se but there are conflict rules in place for law firms. Wouldnt a firm see this as a conflict of interest? i am not sure if Gowlings has offices all over Canada but I would think that one office would be affilitated to the other and some red flags for conflict would come up. Another conflict is that gowlings was the ASA lawyer and has done work for the Board prior to the recent blow up but then when there was a dispute amongst the board that went to court in calgary we saw Gowlings act for some board members against other Board members. How can this not be a conflict? Even now they are doing so. Maybe someone who knows more about this area could comment. I am just not sure this passes most peoples sniff test. I'm not sure what the legalities around the conflict of interest may be. It would be interesting to learn more. One thing about the unseen opinion is that until Mario or someone shares it it will remain priviledged information and can't be compelled by the court. Once it is put in the public forum it is open season on that document and all privacy is lost (in court or outside of court). I wonder if it contains something confidential or extremely critical to their case (good or bad) that they don't want mentioned in court. Just speculation on my part, but what if that document warns them that they are out of line in some of their actions??? They certainly wouldn't ever want the public or the court to see that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1867 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Oc-that wouldnt be like them to misquote or misinform the membership about something would it? Devos seems to think so. I enjoyed his article about Marios letter. I wonder if Mario enjoyed it? I am sure the PR firms advice to him is to not say or write anything. He is too clever by half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Oc-that wouldnt be like them to misquote or misinform the membership about something would it? Devos seems to think so. I enjoyed his article about Marios letter. I wonder if Mario enjoyed it? I am sure the PR firms advice to him is to not say or write anything. He is too clever by half. I sent the link to Devos article to the CMSA and all the clubs I've been involved with. Just let everyone know that Mario was "grossly misrepresenting" the facts or as JDV put it in his article "not truthful". Seeing as CMSA had Mario's letter on their site with a link to it on the front page I think equal time for JDV is in order (no I'm not holding my breath). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1867 Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 tmurph-quite honestly i dont know how the Calgary soccer community continues to be embarrassed putting up with these guys like kern and innes representing them. There are so many good hard working soccer people in Calgary-why is it that the womens group who have been threatened from pillar to post are the only ones currently sticking their necks out to oppose them? Incidentally did your club respond to this AYMSL initiative? can we assume it is dead and buried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 I'm assuming the provincial tournaments went off without a hitch this past weekend???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 Interesting terminology by SWEMSA on their web site: "... regarding the allegations made by Mr. Chris Billings". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I'm assuming the provincial tournaments went off without a hitch this past weekend???? I know Camrose had a very successful weekend. It's interesting that because of the interim court order there were of course no ASA Board reps at the provincial events unlike previous years. CASA's executive director (who lives in Camrose) served as tournament chairperson with local volunteers helping and received multiple compliments on how well the tournament was run and on the quality of the officiating. Makes you wonder why we normally spend money putting up ASA reps in hotels with meal and travel expenses (unless of course for those hosting districts who possibly can't provide expertise required). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted August 10, 2010 Author Share Posted August 10, 2010 Interesting terminology by SWEMSA on their web site: "... regarding the allegations made by Mr. Chris Billings". I don't think any allegations made by Mr. Billings were discussed at the meeting between ASA staff and CSA reps. It was simply a we support this group, so you need to shut off your brains and do the same discussion. They did not provide any basis for way they supported Mario. They didn't say why they believed the suspension of Billings was valid. (In fact, they said they have no opinion at all on the validity of the suspension or whether it was carried out properly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustFixIt Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 The really interesting wording is on the Edmonton West Raiders site: http://www3.telus.net/public/edwest/ The Raiders support the legally elected ASA Board that was elected at the January 2010 AGM. The Raiders disapprove of the terrorist tactics that Chris Billings and his backer EDSA are using to gain control over ASA Also read the letter posted there from Ivan Magdee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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