oc64 Posted June 29, 2010 Share Posted June 29, 2010 The Alberta Soccer Association board dispute continues on. I get the sense the membership is getting tired of the whole affair and are pushing for a full election. CSA came to Edmonton but neglected to visit with any of the districts or Chris Billings. They did, however, express their support for Mario Charpentier and his group. I don't know how (if) this will be resolved. It certainly seems destined for a courtroom, but in the meantime both parties continue to act as though they are calling the shots. This is bad for soccer. Bad for staff. Bad for everyone really. In the past week some staff members have been fired and/or suspended by one group then reinstated and/or rehired by the other group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Wonder how much it cost CSA to fly the Board members (hand-picked anti-governance reform guys of course) out to Alberta and back - what an incredible waste of money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Wonder how much it cost CSA to fly the Board members (hand-picked anti-governance reform guys of course) out to Alberta and back - what an incredible waste of money! name, province position if you know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Any idea on how this debacle is affecting the Select team programs (All Star Nationals)? Are people being paid? Are hotels getting booked? Will Alberta be able to send teams to the National Club Championships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Any idea on how this debacle is affecting the Select team programs (All Star Nationals)? Are people being paid? Are hotels getting booked? Will Alberta be able to send teams to the National Club Championships? So far things are still going ahead with the select teams, staff are being paid. There will hopefully be some sort of resolution (temporary at least) about who goes to Nationals. The only weapon Mario C. has is CSA giving the ousted board the power to decide who gets to compete at Tier 1 Provincial Championships. If the situation is still stalemated that could mean some very good teams will not get a chance to compete. Time will tell. There is no doubt whatever that Mario and crew will not compromise or relax their position, they feel they have already won and that it's only a matter of time before the opposition gives up. Their stance is predicated on continuing support from the CSA Executive's interference, what they don't want to admit or face is that we aren't likely to give up for a long time. We don't have anything to lose at this point, an ASA with Mario Charpentier and Colin Innes in permanent charge is intolerable and would be a disaster for the sport in Alberta. On a side note, it's been interesting finding out from some who know from experience what a gong show the CSA Board meetings are. I was told to imagine the worst ASA meeting I've ever attended and multiply it by 10. To Trillium: I was informed that the group was supposed to have consisted of a Vice-President, a Director and two Provincial Presidents, whether that is accurate or not I can't confirm with any certainty at this time and I wouldn't expect the CSA Board to advertise it in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 I don't know anywhere near enough about the positions so I can't place a value judgement on the CSA spending 000's of $$$. But I would think it's all moot because the power of self-determination lies in the province's general assembly, not the national body. Sooner or later the whole thing ends up back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 I don't know anywhere near enough about the positions so I can't place a value judgement on the CSA spending 000's of $$$. But I would think it's all moot because the power of self-determination lies in the province's general assembly, not the national body. Sooner or later the whole thing ends up back there. Unless the CSA puts the province under trusteeship and dismisses the association from the CSA .. having only the CSA appointed Trustee run soccer for two to three years in a normalization period. Who can step in ? ... not the government cause we know FIFA would scream... other provinces ...um lets just say it seems they are in full agreement with what is going on or are silent as they look at the luxury hotel rooms and trip schedules they have planned. So the cards are in the hands of the CSA to play the Reform group needs to get some back door politics going.. both in the soccer community, but also outside.. some folks to make some calls to get the CSA to understand a "democratic solution" with open elections is the best way to save face... or face not getting any federal money.... or provincial money all accross Canada. Witholding government grant money .. of course is not government interference its simply a economic decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 3, 2010 Author Share Posted July 3, 2010 So far things are still going ahead with the select teams, staff are being paid. There will hopefully be some sort of resolution (temporary at least) about who goes to Nationals. The only weapon Mario C. has is CSA giving the ousted board the power to decide who gets to compete at Tier 1 Provincial Championships. If the situation is still stalemated that could mean some very good teams will not get a chance to compete. Time will tell. There is no doubt whatever that Mario and crew will not compromise or relax their position, they feel they have already won and that it's only a matter of time before the opposition gives up. Their stance is predicated on continuing support from the CSA Executive's interference, what they don't want to admit or face is that we aren't likely to give up for a long time. We don't have anything to lose at this point, an ASA with Mario Charpentier and Colin Innes in permanent charge is intolerable and would be a disaster for the sport in Alberta. On a side note, it's been interesting finding out from some who know from experience what a gong show the CSA Board meetings are. I was told to imagine the worst ASA meeting I've ever attended and multiply it by 10. To Trillium: I was informed that the group was supposed to have consisted of a Vice-President, a Director and two Provincial Presidents, whether that is accurate or not I can't confirm with any certainty at this time and I wouldn't expect the CSA Board to advertise it in any way. I was told the CSA reps were one of the VP's (Montagliani or Newman), the Finance Director (Steve Reed) and one other director (not Traficante) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Unless the CSA puts the province under trusteeship and dismisses the association from the CSA .. having only the CSA appointed Trustee run soccer for two to three years in a normalization period. Who can step in ? ... not the government cause we know FIFA would scream... other provinces ...um lets just say it seems they are in full agreement with what is going on or are silent as they look at the luxury hotel rooms and trip schedules they have planned. So the cards are in the hands of the CSA to play the Reform group needs to get some back door politics going.. both in the soccer community, but also outside.. some folks to make some calls to get the CSA to understand a "democratic solution" with open elections is the best way to save face... or face not getting any federal money.... or provincial money all accross Canada. Witholding government grant money .. of course is not government interference its simply a economic decision. Of course the CSA Executive has no real interest in putting the province in a trusteeship. Right now the anti-reformers on the executive, Maestracci, Motagliani, Reed and Traficante need Alberta to be a voting member and they specifically need Mario Charpentier and Colin Innes in charge of it. These guys are totally aware that the old boys club is in imminent danger and need every vote they can get. This has been in the works for nearly three years, it's classic trading votes for power. There is nothing the other provinces can do about this until the next CSA AGM. You would think that the Board Meeting in September would be an opportunity but I would be willing to bet that even if one of the sympathetic provinces put forward a motion to recognize the Board that the members of ASA accepted on April 24th, the President would rule it out of order. That's the way it's done at CSA, these Board meetings at CSA are not dignified gatherings of ladies and gentlemen who gather for intellectual discourse. Bizarre rulings from the chair, people attempting to outshout each other and semi-chaos rule the day. At the last AGM in Winnipeg (the closed-door AGM), the Friday meeting was not concerned with matters that one would anticipate. Instead of discussing things like say, the state of our national teams, how to raise more money for the national programs, how CSA can better interact with Sport Canada and a new governance model, they spent three and a half hours arguing and fighting about who would represent Alberta's votes. Amazingly Mike Traficante, who has an enormous conflict of interest in this, was allowed to vote! Fair play and such concepts as rule of law and natural justice are dispensed with along with Rules of Order apparently as well. Almost seems like they're using FIFA as their model at times. Perhaps the government would be reluctant to step in (remember Peru) but when (not if) this goes to Court of Queen's bench in Alberta to establish who is in control of the Registered Not for Profit Society known as the Alberta Soccer Association and if all goes well and the post April Board is recognized legally it will give the CSA an opportunity to see if they are above the law of the land. Even if the Court appoints a Receiver to run the affairs of the ASA until a legitimate AGM can be held that the members will be forced to agree to, that's not a bad thing. The ASA staff are perfectly capable of running the day to day operations and programs of the Association without the oft times heavy handed interference of individuals such as Charpentier, Innes, Kern, etc. The majority of the membership would not be adverse to this outcome at all, the game would be played, clubs would go to National Championships and the select teams would carry on as usual. On the other hand if Mario and co. are recognized as the legitimate Board then I would not be surprised to see many Members drop out of ASA and form their own Association. Obviously they would not be sending teams to National Competitions but many do not see that as the end of the world whereas being under the rule of our dark side would be close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 The group led by Mario Charpentier has taken the step of hiring security to keep individuals they deem as undesirable out of the ASA office (specifically the individuals that were fired and/or suspended by their group, and anyone from the Chris Billings led group). It sort of sounds like the ASA is run like a military state...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Wow. This is a slippery slope to nowhere good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 That doesn't sound very legal. Not that i'm a lwayer, but you guys should go to the courts and get an injunction of some kind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 It is such an embarrassment to soccer in Alberta. This should end up in the courts very quickly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am surprised at the general lack of interest in this thread from people outside Alberta (my apologies to those that have replied from outside the Province). This issue - how the game is governed in Canada, and the lengths to which some individuals will go to retain their hold on power - speaks volumes about why soccer continues to flounder in Canada. People were so keen about the reforms proposed at the CSA AGM...well, that will go up in smoke if Charpentier, Traficante, Kern and Innes win in their attempts to oust Billings, et al. The hegemony enjoyed by the proverbial Ol' Boys Club will continue on ad naseum unless the results of the Special AGM stand. And anyone can plainly see the lengths to which the Charpentier crew will go to keep their positions...they have brought in the Stormtroopers, for God's sake. Can you imagine if this was happening with a Provincial hockey association? Soccer lovers in Canada should be VERY, VERY concerned about what is happening here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am surprised at the general lack of interest in this thread from people outside Alberta (my apologies to those that have replied from outside the Province). This issue - how the game is governed in Canada, and the lengths to which some individuals will go to retain their hold on power - speaks volumes about why soccer continues to flounder in Canada. People were so keen about the reforms proposed at the CSA AGM...well, that will go up in smoke if Charpentier, Traficante, Kern and Innes win in their attempts to oust Billings, et al. The hegemony enjoyed by the proverbial Ol' Boys Club will continue on ad naseum unless the results of the Special AGM stand. And anyone can plainly see the lengths to which the Charpentier crew will go to keep their positions...they have brought in the Stormtroopers, for God's sake. Can you imagine if this was happening with a Provincial hockey association? Soccer lovers in Canada should be VERY, VERY concerned about what is happening here. Check out the new thread in the Women's national teams section re: time for a headshake at CSA about the U17 girls. A perfect example of why the CSA cannot continue in it's present form, the old boy's club doesn't care about soccer in Canada - all they care about is their own privileges and perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am surprised at the general lack of interest in this thread from people outside Alberta (my apologies to those that have replied from outside the Province). This issue - how the game is governed in Canada, and the lengths to which some individuals will go to retain their hold on power - speaks volumes about why soccer continues to flounder in Canada. People were so keen about the reforms proposed at the CSA AGM...well, that will go up in smoke if Charpentier, Traficante, Kern and Innes win in their attempts to oust Billings, et al. The hegemony enjoyed by the proverbial Ol' Boys Club will continue on ad naseum unless the results of the Special AGM stand. And anyone can plainly see the lengths to which the Charpentier crew will go to keep their positions...they have brought in the Stormtroopers, for God's sake. Can you imagine if this was happening with a Provincial hockey association? Soccer lovers in Canada should be VERY, VERY concerned about what is happening here. Beautifully put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I have an idea: Hire your own set of security guards and have them battle it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I have an idea: Hire your own set of security guards and have them battle it out! That would be funny to watch but horribly unfair to either set of security guards. My preference would be to see a cage match between the two fueding boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 What I would really like to hear is someone on the side of the Charpentier led board defend their decisions and actions. Perhaps I am completely biased and off track in my thinking. If their actions are justified they should be easily explained and defendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am not an advocate for either side. But what is clear is that the ASA has been dysfunctional since Gary Sampley left. The number of Executive Directors that have paraded through the door is an embarrassment, and helps to illustrate the level of undermining that takes place. Not coincidentally, Mr. Charpentier's involvement roughly corresponds with this timeline of unrest. However, one should concede that Mr. Billings is a relative neophyte when it comes to soccer in Alberta, and isn't what you would call a strong soccer man. Unless I am mistaken, he is a well-intentioned volunteer that has risen through the ranks from his district (Tri-County?) to where he finds himself in a fight with individuals that have between them over a hundred years in Alberta soccer. I am not sure that Billings is the best person to champion the cause of reform, but I guess he's all there is. Until now, no one else was willing to take on the fight. It will be very, very interesting to see how quickly this comes to a head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am not an advocate for either side. But what is clear is that the ASA has been dysfunctional since Gary Sampley left. The number of Executive Directors that have paraded through the door is an embarrassment, and helps to illustrate the level of undermining that takes place. Not coincidentally, Mr. Charpentier's involvement roughly corresponds with this timeline of unrest. However, one should concede that Mr. Billings is a relative neophyte when it comes to soccer in Alberta, and isn't what you would call a strong soccer man. Unless I am mistaken, he is a well-intentioned volunteer that has risen through the ranks from his district (Tri-County?) to where he finds himself in a fight with individuals that have between them over a hundred years in Alberta soccer. I am not sure that Billings is the best person to champion the cause of reform, but I guess he's all there is. Until now, no one else was willing to take on the fight. It will be very, very interesting to see how quickly this comes to a head. It may be true that Billings is new. I really don't know much about his volunteer history in soccer. I actually think that some new blood is exactly what Alberta Soccer needs most. They can hire qualified technical staff to forward the quality of soccer in Alberta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj52 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am not an advocate for either side. But what is clear is that the ASA has been dysfunctional since Gary Sampley left. The number of Executive Directors that have paraded through the door is an embarrassment, and helps to illustrate the level of undermining that takes place. Not coincidentally, Mr. Charpentier's involvement roughly corresponds with this timeline of unrest. However, one should concede that Mr. Billings is a relative neophyte when it comes to soccer in Alberta, and isn't what you would call a strong soccer man. Unless I am mistaken, he is a well-intentioned volunteer that has risen through the ranks from his district (Tri-County?) to where he finds himself in a fight with individuals that have between them over a hundred years in Alberta soccer. I am not sure that Billings is the best person to champion the cause of reform, but I guess he's all there is. Until now, no one else was willing to take on the fight. It will be very, very interesting to see how quickly this comes to a head. If you look at the ASA presidents since Peter McKenzie you get 1. Mike Traficante 2. Brent Thorburn (briefly - part of a term) 3. Fred Kern 4. Chris Billings. Chris came up through the ranks and was young enough to not be contaminated by the seemingly omnipresent occupational hazard of "oldboy-itis". Also he's an intelligent guy and even before he left the Battle River Soccer Board, he realized that the system at ASA was in dire need of an overhaul. As everyone in Alberta that's been around for any length of time knows, ASA has essentially been run by two different organizations - Edmonton Minor and Calgary Minor. Neither organization has any interest in the rest of the province or anything outside of their own little islands. They both fear each other and although they have very little interest in what the ASA does, neither one wants anyone else to have any say. They've battled each other and have temporarily worked together (now and in the past) to fight off what they perceive as threats to their power base. No one coming from those organizations is likely to seriously favour reform and people in Edmonton and Calgary that have shown any hint of rebellion have faced very unpleasant repercussions. It takes a tremendous amount of personal courage to stand against these groups and I would think that the best person to champion the cause would be someone with that trait. Most strong Soccer men typically are not willing to stand in the firing line when it comes to a nasty political fight like this. Who needs to see their name dragged through the mud and suffer through character assassination and endless streams of outright lies perpetrated by these scoundrels all the way to the national level? I don't think many people can comprehend what it would feel like to bear the brunt of the unending series of misdeeds these individuals perpetrate. Whatever the result at least now people have seen that you can fight these guys, it's just never going to be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 CSA and the Mario led group are unbelievable. Wait until you see their latest communications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc64 Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 OK, I'm an idiot. How do I copy and paste a letter into this forum? Can't get it to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 I imagine you are referring to a letter sent to AMSL teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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