Fees going up?

[CoachRich]

IMO expect fees to go up after this season. It's only logical looking at last years financials, the rumors going around, all the bad press on how money is spent on programs & etc. How else is the CSA going to pay for all this mess but to revisit w/ the members. When they ask it will be over my warm dead body.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

IMO expect fees to go up after this season. It's only logical looking at last years financials, the rumors going around, all the bad press on how money is spent on programs & etc. How else is the CSA going to pay for all this mess but to revisit w/ the members. When they ask it will be over my warm dead body.

What's your solution Rich?

db

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

IMO expect fees to go up after this season. It's only logical looking at last years financials, the rumors going around, all the bad press on how money is spent on programs & etc. How else is the CSA going to pay for all this mess but to revisit w/ the members. When they ask it will be over my warm dead body.

But....

How do you break the catch-22?

Argue for an increase in fees, only with total transparency. (a suggestion not a total solution)

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

But....

How do you break the catch-22?

Argue for an increase in fees, only with total transparency. (a suggestion not a total solution)

Ya you're right James. It is a total catch-22. One day, perhaps our senior national programs will be self-sufficient, as ideally they should be, but how do you get there without influxes of the green stuff.

Chicken and the egg. Which came first? It's an old discussion isn't it.

db

[Richard]

I think just refusing any fee increase out of hand on principle will be self-defeating.

[ag futbol]

Fee increase may or may not have merit but I think the first thing that should asked is:

-Show that the money (they already have) is being used effectively. How is that possible with the level of disclosure we are given?

-What is the money going to fund? The answer should be very specific and detail orientated.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

Fee increase may or may not have merit but I think the first thing that should asked is:

-Show that the money is being used effectively. How is that possible with the level of disclosure we are given?

-What is the money going to fund? The answer should be very specific and detail orientated.

Those are good ideas! My concern is whether or not the average mum or dad of your average recreational soccer playing youngster feels that any of their fees should go towards the national team programs!

Thoughts?

db

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

Those are good ideas! My concern is whether or not the average mum or dad of your average recreational soccer playing youngster feels that any of their fees should go towards the national team programs!

Thoughts?

db

Yes this is what I was trying to say.

Give them the money, but demand it come with wide open transparency and no secret ballots or meetings.

We also have to be clear about who we should be mad at here. While I have no love for the CSA they have also been hog tied by people automatically voting no to everything and anything.

[CoachRich]

Solution -

Put all the different groups that are battling against the PSO's & CSA together as 1 battle group.

Collect all the rumors & info the battle group have & decide what is the best info to make youth clubs & the media aware of the problems of the PSO's & CSA.

Create a PR campaign using our media supporters to make the youth clubs, senior clubs, all levels of governments & the public aware & informed of the issues & solutions.

PR campaign on a separate front continues to call out the CSA in public on issues that don't represent the best interests of the membership.

Get the youth clubs which control 83% of the fee money that goes into the CSA onboard by detailing a constitutional solution to the PSO & CSA. BC is different in their voting w/ seniors but they are not happy w/ the CSA, like who is if they are informed.

The solution will be a standardization of all the constitutions of all the PSO's in soccer that reflect something similar to the Crawford report. All the PSO's have to have the same constitutions to create standardized trickle upward to the NSO. Once that is done we recreate the CSA as membership is empowered & has spoken for change.

Lobby the youth clubs & Districts prior to voting that the solution that ties all the PSO's together is the same solution for the CSA.

Get the seniors to buy in as well.

Give the youth & seniors the understanding of the issues & tools to empower them to make the constitutional changes to the PSO & then to the NSO.

If changes aren't done soon on the PSO level, I see youth clubs & districts pulling out of PSO's as there is no value for them. They would be better to pull out create a system like the US.

Bottom-line is that if we all get on the same page, put our special interests aside & etc to understand that when we change things there will be more money to go around to do the things we all want do for our special interests. Money is the root of the problem of poor management of the CSA. They don't package the sport, nor run it business like to build the sport or attract money. It's a dictatorship that exists by taxing it's members & doesn't attract foreign investment because of it's dictatorship.

My take on soccer in Canada is that we all have to get on the same page. Understand that the problem that is at the NSO is also at the club level too where there are so many small clubs. Hence soccer needs to compress as a marketplace so votes & money is used more effectively. All clubs should be creating Super Clubs where youth & seniors are in the same clubs as we all want the same things. A better sport for when we start at u5, a better sport at youth, a better sport when you graduate from youth & a better sport as we get older. The impact of Super Clubs on the POS & NSO level makes it easier to use the Super Clubs as voting pools, tons of money for development following a national development model, clubs that are part of a pro clubs farm system, development pools for NT programs. More importantly we at all our member levels are empowered to control things constitutionally, are all heading in the same direction nationally, have business like people running our PSO & NSO so as a sport we is excellence in our rec, pro & NT levels.

[Richard]

Voting down any fee increases out of hand is just adding to an already intractable problem. This is exactly what has been contributing to a large part of the very problem we are all complaining about. How many times have we seen attempts to raise fees to help pay for elite player development at the provincial level be voted down flat by the youth clubs/associations that have no interest in competitive soccer!

[CoachRich]

Holding back fees or seperating youth out is to get better governance or a better structure of the NSO. US Soccer does fine by having youth seperated out but they have more input into the NSO.

Youth clubs/associations are very intersted in competitive soccer & the PSO & NT programs. Only issue is how it could be better implemented. ie Whitecaps running DDC's. Pro clubs should not be a part of the PSO structure. They should report directly to the NSO.

Personally, I favor Super Clubs where Youth & Senior are in the same club. It's more like a real club in other sports hence you get a better cross section that services the future of cradle to grave soccer development. Also, these clubs will better service the PSO & NT.

Still, the sport needs to go through a major change like the Crawford Report.

[Canuck Oranje]

Pardon my ignorance, but why should I expect fees to go up? We should have just made a lot of money from hosting the U-20 WC, we have yet to pay a CEO this year, we haven't had to pay a Technical Director and we chose a low cost Head Coach. Did I miss something? On top of that, I suspect that sponsors and government paid for extra expenses for the U-20 team.

At very least, the CSA need to explain that one.

FYI, the average Mum is never ever asked about whether she thinks the fee should be increased. It is very rare that the executive of youth clubs are asked. The assumption that youth clubs will not pay more is made somewhere in the middle of the bureaucracy.

[Moosehead]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Voting down any fee increases out of hand is just adding to an already intractable problem. This is exactly what has been contributing to a large part of the very problem we are all complaining about. How many times have we seen attempts to raise fees to help pay for elite player development at the provincial level be voted down flat by the youth clubs/associations that have no interest in competitive soccer!

This is why we need to separate out recreational soccer from elite soccer so that the CSA or a new FA does not have conflicting goals.

[Moosehead]

It would be interesting to see an informed poster prepare a budget of what a newly proposed Football Association would look like that sole mandate was the development of elite soccer players in Canada for the national team. The budget would include the cost of holding a good selection of international friendlies for the national teams and then development of a U21 National League.

You would certainly lose a lot of money from all the registered soccer players, but may save money by having a lean and focused organization. Perhaps, elite clubs would be more willing to pay more money to the newly formed federation on eliminating the conflict with the recreational aspect of the game. Also the new federation would likely obtain more sponsorship than the CSA from being more democratic and having much more credibility than the former CSA.

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Pardon my ignorance, but why should I expect fees to go up? We should have just made a lot of money from hosting the U-20 WC, we have yet to pay a CEO this year, we haven't had to pay a Technical Director and we chose a low cost Head Coach. Did I miss something? On top of that, I suspect that sponsors and government paid for extra expenses for the U-20 team.

At very least, the CSA need to explain that one.

FYI, the average Mum is never ever asked about whether she thinks the fee should be increased. It is very rare that the executive of youth clubs are asked. The assumption that youth clubs will not pay more is made somewhere in the middle of the bureaucracy.

Rumor is CSA lost $2 million on FIFA U20 !!!!

[CoachRich]

Youth club executives sit on youth districts as they rep their club members at the district level.

What is rec & elite probably varies depending on who you talk to.

[Moosehead]

Sport Canada should have the authority to withdraw funding from Sports organizations that it is clear are not doing a competent job of promoting and developing the sport at the elite level and that is not fully transparent to the membership and general public (the tax payer) in releasing financial information about the organization and general disclosure to the membership.

[CoachRich]

quote:Originally posted by Moosehead

Sport Canada should have the authority to withdraw funding from Sports organizations that it is clear are not doing a competent job of promoting and developing the sport at the elite level and that is not fully transparent to the membership and general public (the tax payer) in releasing financial information about the organization and general disclosure to the membership.

Sports Canada does BUT I have talked, phoned & recieved letters from Sports Canada & as far as their requirements go CSA is doing nothing wrong.

Until we have a revolt by clubs, or someone has some hard facts about the U20 loosing $2M or some CSA consitutional failure, we have a lot of rumors on a forum regardless of what is obivious that the CSA sucks.

[Moosehead]

Well Sports Canada needs to tighten its rules as to when organization is not doing something correct such as 20 years of not qualifying for the world cup. The rules should be clear, receive money from the government make available the current financial statements of your organization on your website for public viewing.

[CoachRich]

Sports Canada (SC) rules only cover the public funds they give the NSO.

SC gets a copy of the CSA financials on a timely manner & in a fashion that qualifies per SC guidelines.

SC states that as long as a NSO if fufilling SC guidelines & the NSO Constitution there is little they will do.

It would be nice to have the CSA Financials posted each year but what do you expect looking at their track record.

It took me almost 1 year to get a copy of the financials via my PSO & CSA. Finally the CSA came through. I was happy to get them a week before they went on the web site but not happy to see that the CSA lost money & their financials don't say much on how they allocate funds for programs. Especially to female programs & why they have such a HUGE HR expense.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Moosehead

It would be interesting to see an informed poster prepare a budget of what a newly proposed Football Association would look like that sole mandate was the development of elite soccer players in Canada for the national team.

First lets lobby to get the complete open financial records of the one we have.