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Forza_Italia

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

Why dont you look at how many Italians play on Milan and how many CL they won and league titles, the core is Italian with foreign help not the other way around,

How is Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool different? The core of those teams are English.

quote:

If English players are so good they would have won the world cup.

at least Italy proved that the players can get the job done and win, for the 4th time :)

If you're gonna compare their world cup wins with England, you have to start with 1950 -- the first time England competed in a World Cup (besides the tournament was a joke before that). So Italy has won it twice, England once. NOt a huge disparity there. [8)]

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

How is Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool different? The core of those teams are English.

If you're gonna compare their world cup wins with England, you have to start with 1950 -- the first time England competed in a World Cup (besides the tournament was a joke before that). So Italy has won it twice, England once. NOt a huge disparity there. [8)]

No I will count the Stars on the jerseys and I see 1 for England and 4 for Italy, and by the way how many Euro cups did England win? Acutally how many finals have they made in the last 40 years??

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

No I will count the Stars on the jerseys and I see 1 for England and 4 for Italy, and by the way how many Euro cups did England win? Acutally how many finals have they made in the last 40 years??

uuhhh.. England didn't compete in those World Cups that Italy won. So how can you include them when comparing Italy to England?

2-1 Italy.

And I almost fell-out of my chair when an Italian (err... make that Italian fan, as lets face it - you are about as Italian as Pizza Hut) actually brought up what has happened in the Euro Cup during the past 40 years. How many Euro Cups has Italy won in the last 40 years? [:P]

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Forza Italia,

given the repeated corruption scandals in Italy, every team's performance in Europe has to be thrown in doubt. Yes, AC Milan has had great sides, but considering they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak, it begs the question just how legit is their European record?

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quote:Originally posted by River City

Forza Italia,

given the repeated corruption scandals in Italy, every team's performance in Europe has to be thrown in doubt. Yes, AC Milan has had great sides, but considering they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak, it begs the question just how legit is their European record?

Was Milan also found guilty for fixing Champions League matches? I know Juventus was, but Milan too? Wow! Dirty buggers.

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quote:Originally posted by River City

Forza Italia,

given the repeated corruption scandals in Italy, every team's performance in Europe has to be thrown in doubt. Yes, AC Milan has had great sides, but considering they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar so to speak, it begs the question just how legit is their European record?

Last time I checked they werent fined for their CL record, as for winning Euro they have one once in the last 40 years which is more then England has ever won, considering they are the so called creators of the game. Yes I have Italian heritage and speak the language but I am a proud Canadian. whats your point? England also didnt compete in the 1994 world cup... oh thats because they couldnt even qualify but I guess I am not allowed to comment on that as well

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

Last time I checked they werent fined for their CL record, as for winning Euro they have one once in the last 40 years which is more then England has ever won, considering they are the so called creators of the game. Yes I have Italian heritage and speak the language but I am a proud Canadian. whats your point? England also didnt compete in the 1994 world cup... oh thats because they couldnt even qualify but I guess I am not allowed to comment on that as well

yes all this scandal and STILL world cup champions, boy thats gotta hurt

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

Last time I checked they werent fined for their CL record, as for winning Euro they have one once in the last 40 years which is more then England has ever won, considering they are the so called creators of the game. Yes I have Italian heritage and speak the language but I am a proud Canadian. whats your point? England also didnt compete in the 1994 world cup... oh thats because they couldnt even qualify but I guess I am not allowed to comment on that as well

Wrong. England did compete for the 1994 World Cup. Qualification is part of the competition.

1930 to 1938 is different. They chose not to compete because the tournament had no credibility unlike the English domestic leagues.

And, oh, Italy won the 1968 Euros on a coin flip. And they even had home advantage. There's something to be proud of.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Wrong. England did compete for the 1994 World Cup. Qualification is part of the competition.

1930 to 1938 is different. They chose not to compete because the tournament had no credibility unlike the English domestic leagues.

And, oh, Italy won the 1968 Euros on a coin flip. And they even had home advantage. There's something to be proud of.

And Where did England win their lonley world cup in 1966??? at home where they cheated angainst Germany. Yes the English domestic leagues have credibility like hooligans and street violence that has been the worst in soccer for years. why dont you check you tube and watch what they did in Germany?

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Hey Forza,

Being part of a doemstic match fixing ring gives you an unfair competition when playing 'clean' teams at the European level. That's why it has to be called into question. And remember Italy's first two glorious World Cups were under the Mussolini regime. Surely, they were 100% legit victories, especially the one in Italy.

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

And Where did England win their lonley world cup in 1966??? at home where they cheated angainst Germany.

How ironic. Pro-Italy poster mentions the word "Cheating" :D

Anyway, Italy needed a coin-flip to win Euro68!

(Boy, do I ever love bringing that up - can you tell?)

quote:

Yes the English domestic leagues have credibility like hooligans and street violence that has been the worst in soccer for years.

*LOL* Are you still living in the 1980's? It is now the year 2006 when Italy has lots more problems with crowd-trouble than England.

Name the last time a top-flight English club had to play a match behind closed doors because of crowd trouble?

And, yes, back in the 1930s the English league was by far and away the best in Europe. Why do you think there was no Champions League/European Cup back then? It's because even the lower English clubs could thrash Juventus and Milan any time they felt like it. There was no international competitiveness in that era.

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Since England didn't compete in major international tournaments from 1930 to 1949, the only way to compare them to Italy at that time was by head-to-head matches.

Forza, would you like to know how those head-to-head matches turned-out for the Italians? Of course you don't. Well, I'll tell you anyway :D: Italy didn't even beat England once in those 20 years! 3 losses and 2 draws, including a 0:4 loss in front of 50,000 in Turin. And one of the draws (in 1939) was due to the famous hand goal "scored" by Piola of Italy in a match played in Rome (yeah, I'm sure that wasn't fixed or anything [:0]).

But keep on believing that you still would've won 2 world cups in that era had England bothered to show-up for those mickey-mouse events that were the 1930, 1934 and 1938 World Cups. [:I]

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

How ironic. Pro-Italy poster mentions the word "Cheating" :D

Anyway, Italy needed a coin-flip to win Euro68!

(Boy, do I ever love bringing that up - can you tell?)

*LOL* Are you still living in the 1980's? It is now the year 2006 when Italy has lots more problems with crowd-trouble than England.

Name the last time a top-flight English club had to play a match behind closed doors because of crowd trouble?

And, yes, back in the 1930s the English league was by far and away the best in Europe. Why do you think there was no Champions League/European Cup back then? It's because even the lower English clubs could thrash Juventus and Milan any time they felt like it. There was no international competitiveness in that era.

ya but not good enough to make a team for the world cup! face it 4 world cups to 1

1 euro to 0

and no finals in 40 years that is such a great record to be proud of

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

ya but not good enough to make a team for the world cup! face it 4 world cups to 1

1 euro to 0

and no finals in 40 years that is such a great record to be proud of

Wow! You're good at being wrong. You should do it for a living.

You got it completely backwards. THe world cup wasn't good enough for the English players. Why would they leave a highly regarded, well-established professional league to play in some mickey-mouse tournament that had no prestige at all?

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Wow! You're good at being wrong. You should do it for a living.

You got it completely backwards. THe world cup wasn't good enough for the English players. Why would they leave a highly regarded, well-established professional league to play in some mickey-mouse tournament that had no prestige at all?

What a pathetic excuse, whats Englands Excuse for not winning the world cup in the last 4o years?? obviously they are too good and dont try and lose on purpose HAHAHAH

GIVE ME A BREAK

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Italy's world cup record is tainted. So rather than be all high and mighty about it, you would do well to remember that.

I still say that if England were suspended from international competition for hooliganism, Italy should have faced the same punishment for all the crap their domestic game is filled with.

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

What a pathetic excuse, whats Englands Excuse for not winning the world cup in the last 4o years?? obviously they are too good and dont try and lose on purpose HAHAHAH

GIVE ME A BREAK

There is no excuse for the past 40 years, other than they haven't produced enough quality players. Until very recently, that is. Right now they have a good team. In fact, they're better than Italy whether you want to admit it or not.

But the argument from 1930 to 1950 stemmed from you comparing Italy to England and 4 world cups to 1 world cup. That is stupid to say the least, since England didn't compete in 2 of those world cup wins. So how can you say Italy > England from 1930 to 1950? You can't. That's why its Italy 2 England 1 during the era that they've both been competing to win world cups.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

There is no excuse for the past 40 years, other than they haven't produced enough quality players. Until very recently, that is. Right now they have a good team. In fact, they're better than Italy whether you want to admit it or not.

But the argument from 1930 to 1950 stemmed from you comparing Italy to England and 4 world cups to 1 world cup. That is stupid to say the least, since England didn't compete in 2 of those world cup wins. So how can you say Italy > England from 1930 to 1950? You can't. That's why its Italy 2 England 1 during the era that they've both been competing to win world cups.

Keep telling yourself that!!

there are 6 countries with better international history then England

and as for River last time I checked the English hooliganism killed over 30 people, how do you compare that to scandal???

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

Keep telling yourself that!!

there are 6 countries with better international history then England

And nobody here disputes that.

But lets go back to your first post: "I was once told on another messageboard that England, player for player have the best team in the world better than France and Italy."

Saying Italy was better 40 years ago, doesn't help your feeble claim that Italy is better today player for player.

Once Italy moves up from third-place in their qualifying group, maybe then you can brag how England will struggle to qualify for Euro 2008. :D

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

And nobody here disputes that.

But lets go back to your first post: "I was once told on another messageboard that England, player for player have the best team in the world better than France and Italy."

Saying Italy was better 40 years ago, doesn't help your feeble claim that Italy is better today player for player.

Once Italy moves up from third-place in their qualifying group, maybe then you can brag how England will struggle to qualify for Euro 2008. :D

England and Italy both have the same Euro record but the pathetic thing is Englands group is a lot easier and Italy are better today which is why they are world champions are England continue to be the best country and choking!!

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

I compare it in that FIFA should have ZERO TOLERANCE for both. Hooliganism has been controlled in England, but still allowed to exist unchecked in other parts of Europe. Whereas with corruption (not limited to Italy) has never been seriously dealt with in Italy.

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

England and Italy both have the same Euro record but the pathetic thing is Englands group is a lot easier and Italy are better today which is why they are world champions are England continue to be the best country and choking!!

Keep those excuses coming.

And how ironic that a pro-Italy poster talks about "choking".

- WC 1990: Italy can't even win the world-cup at home (unlike England). And one of the poorest hosted World Cups ever, I might add. You were even a worse host than the USA.

- Euro 1992: After starting-out qualifying well, Italy muster only 1 point in their 2 games against Norway which sees the USSR grab the qualifying group near the end. Italy doesn't even qualify. :D

- WC 1994: Baggio chokes. 'nuf said. [:P]

- Euro 1996: Despite getting unexpected help when Russia ties the Czech Republic, Italy blows their game that is played at the same time, and thus crash-out at the group-stage

- Euro2000: one of the biggest chokes by any nation in a major tournament final.

- WC2002: again 2 late-goals sees Italy crash out against minnows South Korea. Hasn't Italy learned that sitting on a 1-nil lead only leads to an eventual choke? Apparently not.

- Euro 2004: a late Sweden goal sees Italy crash-out at the group stage. Italy still hasn't learned that sitting on a 1-nil lead is not wise.

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Every nation can look back at games that resulted in their exiting major tournaments and find many reasons why they lost. Fact remains Italy has performed very well in major tournaments. I'm sure England would have loved to be in the 94 WC final,the 2000 Euro final.The 90 WC third place match was a very competitive game.Really it was. Italy beat England that day didn't they.

You know there is Brazil,there is Germany,Italy and Argentina.

Then somewhere down the list there is France and maybe and it's a big maybe you can talk of England.

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quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Keep those excuses coming.

And how ironic that a pro-Italy poster talks about "choking".

Ya and would you like me to mention Englands last 40 years?? May I mention they only won it once in their ownhome even cheated to win angainst Germany, can I mention England has beaten Italy once in the last 20 years??? and you didnt mention 2006, where we won. Its funny how you are telling me how Italy should play, maybe you should teach the English players how to control and rolling ball.. And I agree witn Vancouver Fan

Its Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina,...... then France who has 1 World Cup and 2 Euro's and thats modern day, 1984, 1998, 2000 and they made the finals in 2006, then there is England! the last time England won the world cup it wasnt even shown in color TV.

- WC 1990: Italy can't even win the world-cup at home (unlike England). And one of the poorest hosted World Cups ever, I might add. You were even a worse host than the USA.

BEAT ENGLAND FOR 3 PLACE

- Euro 1992: After starting-out qualifying well, Italy muster only 1 point in their 2 games against Norway which sees the USSR grab the qualifying group near the end. Italy doesn't even qualify. :D

- WC 1994: Baggio chokes. 'nuf said. [:P]

MADE THE FINALS ENGLAND COULDNT EVEN QUALIFY

- Euro 1996: Despite getting unexpected help when Russia ties the Czech Republic, Italy blows their game that is played at the same time, and thus crash-out at the group-stage

YES WE HAD BOTH FINALISTS IN OUR GROUP, WHERE WAS ENGLAND THE HOST COUNTRY??

- Euro2000: one of the biggest chokes by any nation in a major tournament final.

AGAIN MADE THE FINAL SOMETHING ENGLAND HAVENT DONE IN 40 YEARS

- WC2002: again 2 late-goals sees Italy crash out against minnows South Korea. Hasn't Italy learned that sitting on a 1-nil lead only leads to an eventual choke? Apparently not.

YES WE CHOKED JUST LIKE ENGLAND DOES EVERY YEAR

- Euro 2004: a late Sweden goal sees Italy crash-out at the group stage. Italy still hasn't learned that sitting on a 1-nil lead is not wise.

UNDEFEATED THOUGH, HOW MANY GAMES DID ENGLAND LOSE??

2006 CHAMPIONS FOR THE 4 TIME

ENGLAND... QUARTERS AGAIN

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

Ya and would you like me to mention Englands last 40 years?? May I mention they only won it once in their ownhome even cheated to win angainst Germany, can I mention England has beaten Italy once in the last 20 years??? and you didnt mention 2006, where we won. Its funny how you are telling me how Italy should play, maybe you should teach the English players how to control and rolling ball..

Again -- I am not an English fan. Nice rant though.

quote:

And I agree witn Vancouver Fan

Its Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina,

Nope, Vancouver fan said its Brasil, then Italy/Germany/Argentina.

You trying to put Italy in the same group as Brasil? That's a laugh.

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