The Australian Model?

[Whither Canada]

There seems to be a group of otherwise loyal Voyageurs who won't brook any dissent on the performance of Kevan Pipe and the CSA Executive, and I expect to be pounced on in short order, but here it goes anyway........

In the interests of opening yet another debate on the relative merits of the role of the CSA and the performance of the CSA Executive, I decided to take a trip over to the Australian Soccer Association website to look for their mission statement. I look at Australia as a nation I believe is comparable to Canada in terms of soccer ambition -middle to lower level but with the aim of achieving more with limited resources.

I must say it's an eye-opener. For a number of reasons, Australians generally get it right when it comes to sports and I expect they'll be reaping the benefits of their new 'football' policies soon.

Please take the time to read over this page:

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/public/article/show.asp?articleid=8183&menuItemID=54

Some highlights:

- a change of direction (including name) intended to improve the "top end" of the game

- what appears to be a recent house-cleaning of the Board and CEO (heresy!)

- key priority #1 - to qualify for Germany

- key priority #2 - to establish a new national league

Please read the details for yourself. Suffice to say that they have a different mandate than the CSA.

We all have different ideas about what's right and wrong (I happen to think the Aussies have it right) and I know that we in Canada are working with a different set of issues. My primary purpose with this thread is to make people aware of Australia's direction. My secondary purpose is to question the value of the current (20 years and counting) CSA leadership.

I'm hoping for some intelligent comments before Beast and his ilk find this thread, but given the tone of other discussions around those who question the CSA, I expect to become a target myself (not constructive, blind criticism, etc). Don't shoot the messenger.

[DoyleG]

That is what seems more and more the real barrier to progression of soccer in Canada: Lack of visonary leadership. The Australians only go to where they are when they tossed out the old system and the old guard.

[WilfPTheReal99]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

Given the tone of other discussions around those who question the CSA, I expect to become a target myself (not constructive, blind criticism, etc). Don't shoot the messenger.

Oh you poor internet messageboard martyr you!

[Massive Attack]

A few points. Personally, I think Kevan Pipe should be replaced. I also think that Yallop should be replaced. My beef with posters like Robert, fan, beast (and all of his sockpuppets) have more to do with their delivery (ie, calling people drunks, bigotry, racism, baiting, etc.) I think constructive criticism is good. People who knock these idiots shouldn't be pigeon-holed as full out CSA supporters. I think the CSA should receive credit where its due, but they should also be held accountable when stuff goes wrong.

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Now, on the issue of Australia, I'll make a few points:

1. Changing the name of the association to football from soccer in a country that already has 2 other types of football is stupid. And the reason that they give for doing so sounds like PR bullsh!t.

2. I think its good that their association played a role in the establishment of their league.

3. I'll wait to see if they actually qualify for the World Cup before being really impressed.

4. Their move to join the Asian association was pure genious. It should make it easier for them to qualify for the World Cup. If I was FIFA, I would force Oceania and Asia to form one confederation.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by WilfPTheReal99

Oh you poor internet messageboard martyr you!

That didn't take long, did it.

12 minutes, 24 seconds - you win the prize.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I think the CSA should receive credit where its due, but they should also be held accountable when stuff goes wrong.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, on the issue of Australia, I'll make a few points:

1. Changing the name of the association to football from soccer in a country that already has 2 other types of football is stupid. And the reason that they give for doing so sounds like PR bullsh!t.

3. I'll wait to see if they actually qualify for the World Cup before being really impressed.

- You're damn right they're not held accountable when things don't go well!

- Agreed the name change is trivial, and I'm sure I'd slag it if it was the CSA doing it. I just included it as an indicator of the directional change.

- I'm betting that Australia qualifies before we do.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

There seems to be a group of otherwise loyal Voyageurs who won't brook any dissent on the performance of Kevan Pipe and the CSA Executive, and I expect to be pounced on in short order, but here it goes anyway........

Bait bait bait!!!! This whole "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality vis-a-vis the CSA, even when asinine arguments are made (setting aside 2 million a year for the last 20 years in order to build a stadium) is retarded and counter productive. Think through your points and they'll generally be received well.

Anyways, what is the operating budget of the FFA? I have no idea and I don't know what I'm basing this on, but aren't Australian sports federations well supported by the government?

Also, would the CSA be able to attract a corporate sponsor like Hyundai for a national league? Particularly when there is a comparable product south of the border and most of our top level sports teams share leagues with said country.

Also, how would setting priority #1 as qualifying for the world cup be taken by those outside of the Voyageur-like groups of fans? Some of the casual soccer fans I try to talk to about the sport think that the women's team is our marquee team. Putting their development on the backburner might not fly to well.

Just some initial thoughts. Interesting read though. Definitely something to look into.

[imported_n/a1394647443]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

A few points. Personally, I think Kevan Pipe should be replaced. I also think that Yallop should be replaced. My beef with posters like Robert, fan, beast (and all of his sockpuppets) have more to do with their delivery (ie, calling people drunks, bigotry, racism, baiting, etc.) I think constructive criticism is good. People who knock these idiots shouldn't be pigeon-holed as full out CSA supporters. I think the CSA should receive credit where its due, but they should also be held accountable when stuff goes wrong.

I think I speak for many when I say I totally agree with this (except for the part about Yallop) I too think it's time for Pipe to go, but the threats and personal attacks on someone not in a position to defend himself by people who know nothing of what he does is unfair.

Wither, you like some, say we don't like criticism and defend the CSA. That's BS. There was nothing wrong with your post, the problem is exactly as Massive Attack says, and it gets tiring defending it.

As for Australia, there are a lot of things that need to be discussed when discussing Australia's supposed sporting expertise. At what cost? Yes, they have the summer games medals to prove it yet Canada also does for the winter games.

The Australians put out the old saw that sport expenditure reduces health care costs. There have been studies that have refuted this. I'd have to check my facts and do some research but Australia is not the sporting Shangri-la that some purport it to be. They also "bought" many eastern european athletes. Canada did as well but nowhere to the same extent. This isn't sour grapes, the Australians earned what they got but I'd like to see the cost effectiveness.

[WilfPTheReal99]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

That didn't take long, did it.

12 minutes, 24 seconds - you win the prize.

Wrong.

I didn't attack you over your beliefs. I simply highlighted your sanctimonious attitude over an internet discussion. Obviously, however, you wishes to see yourself become this 'target' that you said you would become.

You'll not become a 'target' for disagreeing with the CSA.

You will become a 'target' for taking yourself and the disucssion way too seriously, bud.

[The Beaver]

The only reason I feel Pipe should go is because he has been there long enough, and it is very common for stagnation to seep in when one stays at the helm for so long. Few CEOs/leaders can stay fresh and objective for long periods of time. Some can and do, but they are true rarities. My feeling--and this is mostly conjecture, I admit--is that the CSA would benefit from a new leader, one who can bring some fresh ideas, vision and energy to the fold. I am not sure who that would be: one idea would be John Furlong, the dude heading up the Vancouver/Whistler Winter Olympics. Mind you, that means we have to wait five years, at least. Another possible idea, somebody who may be ready in a few years, is Osiek. (Holger's son.) And I'm sure there are others that will come to mind.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

Anyways, what is the operating budget of the FFA? I have no idea and I don't know what I'm basing this on, but aren't Australian sports federations well supported by the government?

Also, would the CSA be able to attract a corporate sponsor like Hyundai for a national league? Particularly when there is a comparable product south of the border and most of our top level sports teams share leagues with said country.

Also, how would setting priority #1 as qualifying for the world cup be taken by those outside of the Voyageur-like groups of fans? Some of the casual soccer fans I try to talk to about the sport think that the women's team is our marquee team. Putting their development on the backburner might not fly to well.

As I said, we in Canada are working with a different set of issues than the Australians - for example, the ones you mention - lower government funding levels, the American behemoth, etc.

Now I'm far away but I don't see what Australians are missing out on in terms of social spending if they're getting more government funding for sports. Do they have more homeless than we do? Worse medical care? I doubt it. Perhaps someone closer to Australian day-to-day life can comment.

If there's a perception that the Women's team is the marquee team, I think it's because they're successful. Who knows what a successful Men's team could lead to? (I'd love to find out) I believe that success breeds success and that a winning Men's team would do more than anything else to raise awareness of the game among casual fans.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by WilfPTheReal99

Wrong.

I didn't attack you over your beliefs. I simply highlighted your sanctimonious attitude over an internet discussion. Obviously, however, you wishes to see yourself become this 'target' that you said you would become.

You'll not become a 'target' for disagreeing with the CSA.

You will become a 'target' for taking yourself and the disucssion way too seriously, bud.

What am I wrong about?

I'm not a mind reader. How am I supposed to know what you're attacking me for, based on your one-sentence reply?:

"Oh you poor internet messageboard martyr you!"

Please don't lump me in with the Beasts of the world. I only occasionally dip in to these forums, but from reading other threads I understand why people get fed up trying to debate posters like Beast. However the tendency (be honest) is that the CSA defenders seem quick to jump on anybody who demands a change.

Trust me, I don't take myself, this discussion, or much of anything seriously.

[imported_n/a1394647443]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

The only reason I feel Pipe should go is because he has been there long enough, and it is very common for stagnation to seep in when one stays at the helm for so long. Few CEOs/leaders can stay fresh and objective for long periods of time. Some can and do, but they are true rarities. My feeling--and this is mostly conjecture, I admit--is that the CSA would benefit from a new leader, one who can bring some fresh ideas, vision and energy to the fold. I am not sure who that would be: one idea would be John Furlong, the dude heading up the Vancouver/Whistler Winter Olympics. Mind you, that means we have to wait five years, at least. Another possible idea, somebody who may be ready in a few years, is Osiek. (Holger's son.) And I'm sure there are others that will come to mind.

I was highly impressed with Bjorn Osieck's interview on Inside Soccer. Don't know how much he knows about business models but I think he would be a quick study. My other choice would be an Alan Eagleson type (pre conviction) At the CSA there would be no money to steal. My beef with Pipe is his seeming lack of decisiveness. I don't know how he is negotiating terms or in the boardroom but as a communicator he is awful. Has the whole PC/bureaucrat talk down to a science and says nothing. That mode of communication is tres passe. Not that the criteria for being CSA head should be looking good on TV. Alas, perception is reality.

There Wither, brilliant stroke, you have succeeded in turning the staunch CSA/Pipe defenders against their leader. Well played, old chap. We are defeated.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy

There Wither, brilliant stroke, you have succeeded in turning the staunch CSA/Pipe defenders against their leader. Well played, old chap. We are defeated.

Tomorrow the world!

[LMW]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

That didn't take long, did it.

12 minutes, 24 seconds - you win the prize.

You should also include Massive Attack as well. CSA apologist already attacking others who have not even posted yet. These people have their noses permanently glued to the backside of the CSA.

With respect to your first post you are absolutely right. Just ignore those that attack you. The CSA needs new leadership and direction.

[The Beaver]

Just to be clear, there is a huge distinction to be made between supporting the CSA blindly and defending them against silly, unfounded, and baseless attacks. Blaming the CSA for the Argo's decision to pull out of the York stadium is inane unless supported with real evidence. Richard and G-L will speak for themselves--as will many others--but I think a few of you need to understand this distinction. The world does not operate in black and white: just because somebody takes you to task for posting stuff about the CSA--or anything else for that matter--that is not grounded in fact DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE CSA PATSIES. In fact, given solid evidence, I'm sure many of us who appear to be CSA supporters would voice open criticism. Keep in mind that I based my opinion on the need for Pipe to be replaced soley on feeling, conjecture etc. I have no idea if he is truly doing a good job considering the context he must operate in.

[Guest HamiltonSteelers]

I think the Australians are alot more attached to British culture than we are. They share highly publicised rugby league, rugby union and cricket tours often, and to be with the Brits on a competitive stage is natural. For Canada, if we can beat the US at anything, we celebrate.

Also, Australia has proven a desire to have a successful domestic league and praises its homegrown talent on a regular basis. They report on Kewell first, and Liverpool second. Over here, the Winnipeg Free Press runs a story on Stalteri as a footnote that he plays for Werder Bremen and they beat somebody last week. The press and the public genuinely care for its stars playing overseas. When Radz made the move to England, it made news for one day. Kewell jumping ship from Leeds to 'Pool was likely a story that was followed all week.

The Aussies are sports junkies. They could rename it 'Koalaball' for all it matters, as long as the plan is still in place: make domestic league, make better players, show the world we can do it.

I know the Perth Glory were on an average gate of well over 9000 in the last season of the NSL. Some of the other clubs were doing well, given the farcical nature of the leadership and the teetering issue of a pro/rel system, or contracting the league to a number where the revenues shared were worth it. They said 'scrap it' and started over. But there was at least a movement to progress the game. It started as a demand from the successful NSL clubs who seemed to give a damn of the future of the game, and spearheaded by a man with money and a plan to execute it (MLS anyone?). The marketing machine that the Hyundai A-League has produced has got an entire country excited over soccer for the first time in the nation's history.

The culture was ripe for this revolution to be had with little resistance from the fan's POV. Australia wil be able to cultivate their better players and keep them instead of trekking off to play in Austrian 2nd division, and that is a big step forward for any country in their position.

As far as the CSA goes, I'm not necessarily looking for a revolution, just a progression from this mediocre status quo and run like a professional ambitious outfit. This country can have a 'summer obsession' as well as a fall (CFL) and a winter one (hockey), and the 'no money' argument is bunk. Its out there, we just need a progression.

[canso]

Oh...that kind of Australian model.

I was hoping this was a thread about Nicole Kidman in knickers.[]

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by canso

I was hoping this was a thread about Nicole Kidman in knickers.[]

[xx(]

Ich.

Think I'll pass on that one..

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by canso

Oh...that kind of Australian model.

I was hoping this was a thread about Holly Valance and Delta Goodrem in knickers.[]

Fixed.

[elricko]

I would really love to jump in here re. the" Australians being sports junkies "(absolutely true!!!), but of course there would be people that would disagree with me, tell me not to be so negative--maybe asking for me to be banned. You all go around and around the mulberry bush and end up with the all too predictable conclusion, Canadians in general do not care very much about sport!!!! On second thoughts , I won't jump in and say anything.