argh1 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Oh my lord, RSN is advertising 45 Yankees games, 40 Red Sox, 20 Cubs, I'm sure still the Mariners 'though I haven't heard plus Blue Jays. Then there's TSN Blue Jays and TBS will have the Braves. Sounds like a game every day of the week! Damn and I forgot Fox and I'm sure someone else. I guess I shouldn't complain I caught the best part of 4 soccer games this weekend and the Champions League games this week coming. But still that seems like one ****load of baseball games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by argh1 Oh my lord, RSN is advertising 45 Yankees games, 40 Red Sox, 20 Cubs, I'm sure still the Mariners 'though I haven't heard plus Blue Jays. Then there's TSN Blue Jays and TBS will have the Braves. Sounds like a game every day of the week! Damn and I forgot Fox and I'm sure someone else. I guess I shouldn't complain I caught the best part of 4 soccer games this weekend and the Champions League games this week coming. But still that seems like one ****load of baseball games. I was very surprised when I heard that. I cannot understand the logic of Rogers showing that many games of a direct rival like the Red Sox. Seems like their promoting and helping a club whose fan base presents a threat to the Jays. The redsox remain popular in eastern Canada. What really irks me about this is, where were these networks when the Expos were still around? When was the last time an Expos game was ever shown accross Canada on TSN or Sportnet? Remember 1994 when the Spos were contender? TSN refused to carry any their games at that time. Yet they too had a significant equity stake in the Jays [}] . But now that the Spos are gone, they go ahead broadcast a ton of Red Sox games plus Cubs etc. What an insult to Expos fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Good point about the Expos and the nonexistant coverage they received. However (just looking at 2005), the logic behind this decision by RSN seems crystal clear to me and if I was a baseball fan, I would be very happy with this decision by RSN. If the Blue Jays miraculously are involved in a pennant race this season, I would be very keen to see their rivals play as well and root against them. If they're out of the race by late-May as expected, then what incentive does one have to watch 100+ (=400 hours of) meaningless games? Especially if you live nowhere near Toronto? I've always said that baseball needs to adopt an apertura - clausura system like they did in Argentina when lack of parity became such an issue. This way the Kansas Cities and Torontos would play meaningful games most of the year. Imagine two 72-game seasons each followed by two rounds of playoffs. You could still have a "World Series" featuring the apertura and clausura champions. I can just see Jim Rome nodding in agreement ... [}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I was very surprised when I heard that. I cannot understand the logic of Rogers showing that many games of a direct rival like the Red Sox. Seems like their promoting and helping a club whose fan base presents a threat to the Jays. The redsox remain popular in eastern Canada. What really irks me about this is, where were these networks when the Expos were still around? When was the last time an Expos game was ever shown accross Canada on TSN or Sportnet? Remember 1994 when the Spos were contender? TSN refused to carry any their games at that time. Yet they too had a significant equity stake in the Jays [}] . But now that the Spos are gone, they go ahead broadcast a ton of Red Sox games plus Cubs etc. What an insult to Expos fans I believe the answer is simple, and it is a problem that plagues most of Canadian sport. The production cost for Sportsnet to televise all these games is $0...they just piggyback off the feed from ESPN, Fox Sportsnet, etc. I believe this why there is so much NCAA basketball on Canadian TV even though Canadians' interest in that sport doesn't really warrant such a high amount of coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Metro I believe the answer is simple, and it is a problem that plagues most of Canadian sport. The production cost for Sportsnet to televise all these games is $0...they just piggyback off the feed from ESPN, Fox Sportsnet, etc. I believe this why there is so much NCAA basketball on Canadian TV even though Canadians' interest in that sport doesn't really warrant such a high amount of coverage. But you can say the same thing about Champions League coverage on TSN. Anyway, I don't see this as a "problem that plagues Canadian sport" because you can get CFL, NHL/CHL and curling coverage in Canada to the point that you become sick of it. These (Red Sox games, etc.) are just program fillers and a consequence of having three 24-hour sports-channels. They do no harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Without wanting to start a regional flame war, I think this is an interesting parallel to the idea that Toronto MLS will be 'Canada's team'. Most baseball fans I know don't cheers for the Jays and many like me loathe them. The Expos were the most popular team amongst my peer group, with the Twins also having a lot of fans. I certainly know more Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs fans than Blue Jays fans. Most of the Jays fans I know when I was young fell off the bandwagon by the late 90s and never got back on. But the people who were diehards didn't like them in the first place. Perhaps its different in other regions of the country, but I imagine there's as big of a demand for the Sox and Yankees as there is for the Jays and so this sked makes some sense. As for the NCAAs, we've never had an office NHL playoff pool or any other type of sports pool, except our NCAA pool. Most couldn't name you a single college hoops player, but they enter every year anyway. Just to appease G-L I won't even use the double-M word. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I am not sure that anyone would ever suggest that simpling putting an MLS team in Toronto would mean that that team would garner canada-wide support. The only person so far who made that claim is Sean Wheelock, who not even a Canadian. I would not expect an automatic national following for TO's MLS club nor would any reasonable person who has the slightest understanding of the country we live in. The Raptors are good example of this. The brief reasons why I think that an MLS team in Canada is good for soccer is that it the best way to entice big money ownership and investment in the game. Furthermore, it would present a more competitive professional environment for soccer and create a better level for developing young players. It would surely be preferreable to sending every Tom, Dick and Harry overseas to unknown spots only see them come back every four years to play in Important games for canada in which the travel and displacement makes it feel like away games for them. It never really was about creating a team canada at the clubs and if I have read everyone's comments correctly, no one ( even in Toronto) is even suggesting this. Your observations about the expos following are similar to mine. But on the other hard, I recalled an article that appeared in the G&M back in the heydays of the Jays. The piece recounted how the nationwide following for the Jays had dwarfed the Expos into a regional club. One of the vocal sampling of comments that stood out was how ( in a province like Sask) the Spos had become a non-factor. Political reasons of that era ( eg Meech lake) where often cited for the switch in allegiances. I do blame to a certain extent, the expos management for losing so much national fan base. Of course, the media such as TSN made matters worst for the Spos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick I am not sure that anyone would ever suggest that simpling putting an MLS team in Toronto would mean that that team would garner canada-wide support. The only person so far who made that claim is Sean Wheelock, who not even a Canadian. I would not expect an automatic national following for TO's MLS club nor would any reasonable person who has the slightest understanding of the country we live in. The Raptors are good example of this. The brief reasons why I think that an MLS team in Canada is good for soccer is that it the best way to entice big money ownership and investment in the game. Furthermore, it would present a more competitive professional environment for soccer and create a better level for developing young players. It would surely be preferreable to sending every Tom, Dick and Harry overseas to unknown spots only see them come back every four years to play in Important games for canada in which the travel and displacement makes it feel like away games for them. It never really was about creating a team canada at the clubs and if I have read everyone's comments correctly, no one ( even in Toronto) is even suggesting this. I couldn't remember who suggested that Toronto MLS would be 'Canada's team' I guess it was just Wheelock. For what it's worth I think I would support Toronto if it ever happens. I don't know. I didn't mean to make a big parallel, but I was just noting that just because the Blue Jays are Canadian doesn't mean they have nationwide support. > Your observations about the expos following are similar to mine. The key is that in 1993 yes I knew many, many more Blue Jays fans than Expos fans, but most of the Jays fans weren't actually baseball fans. They weren't the sort of people who would actually watch a game now that they're grown up, while the Expos fans still follow the game (I assume they will with their team gone). cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I'm one of those baseball fans who haven't really come back to the game since the '94 strike. Before that I used to watch about 2 games a day. Now I might watch 12-15 a season. Although I admit that I was cheering for the Red Sox this past season because I truly believed their fans deserved a World Series title. Same reason I was rooting for the Cubbies the year before. Those two teams may have the best fans in all of North American professional sports, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The complaints that Toronto MLS would be seen as "Canada's Team" tend to stem from the practices that the Jays and the Raptors attempted. The argumnent these days that people use now to promote Toronto MLS is that would "inspire Canadian soccer players to play professionally in Canada and boost the sport". This is an argument that I heard used to promote the Jays and the Raptors only to have that argument hold little water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG The complaints that Toronto MLS would be seen as "Canada's Team" tend to stem from the practices that the Jays and the Raptors attempted. The argumnent these days that people use now to promote Toronto MLS is that would "inspire Canadian soccer players to play professionally in Canada and boost the sport". This is an argument that I heard used to promote the Jays and the Raptors only to have that argument hold little water. I want to take not with the tone and the implications of your post. The Blue Jays and Raptors have most definitely had a very positive impact on the development of athletes in their respective sports in Canada. In baseball, at all professional levels in the United States, Canada has produced more players than any other country except for the US, and the Dominican Republic. Also, right now there are more Canadians playing Division I basketball in the US than at any other point in history. Players like Denham Brown and Theo Davis (both from the Toronto area as a matter of fact) have a very real shot at not only making it to the NBA but also having long and productive careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG The complaints that Toronto MLS would be seen as "Canada's Team" tend to stem from the practices that the Jays and the Raptors attempted. The argumnent these days that people use now to promote Toronto MLS is that would "inspire Canadian soccer players to play professionally in Canada and boost the sport". This is an argument that I heard used to promote the Jays and the Raptors only to have that argument hold little water. I want to take not with the tone and the implications of your post. The Blue Jays and Raptors have most definitely had a very positive impact on the development of athletes in their respective sports in Canada. In baseball, at all professional levels in the United States, Canada has produced more players than any other country except for the US, and the Dominican Republic. Also, right now there are more Canadians playing Division I basketball in the US than at any other point in history. Players like Denham Brown and Theo Davis (both from the Toronto area as a matter of fact) have a very real shot at not only making it to the NBA but also having long and productive careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor I want to take not with the tone and the implications of your post. The Blue Jays and Raptors have most definitely had a very positive impact on the development of athletes in their respective sports in Canada. In baseball, at all professional levels in the United States, Canada has produced more players than any other country except for the US, and the Dominican Republic. Mexico and Puerto Rico produce far more players than we do. Japan still hold superiority over Canada in terms of talent in MLB. The only point where you have a valid point is the minor leagues but Canadians have always been there in number, well behind the big baseball nations. If the Jays were so big, then why has there been a decline in baseball in Canada. Where was the recognition from Toronto when the Ottawa Lynx, Edmonton Trappers and the Vancouver Canadians won AAA titles? Guess they weren't big enough for them then. Or was it because they didn't have anything to do with the Jays in providing them talent? BTW, where's the basketball teams in the rest of Canada? If the Raptors had such a "effect" in building up basketball, where are the other teams in this country of ours? quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor Also, right now there are more Canadians playing Division I basketball in the US than at any other point in history. Players like Denham Brown and Theo Davis (both from the Toronto area as a matter of fact) have a very real shot at not only making it to the NBA but also having long and productive careers. They said the same thing about Carl English. Where is he now? As for Theo Davis, the media identify him as a Canadian only by hometown. His high school team was in Bayside, NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Theo Davis attended Father Henry Carr in Toronto. The Bayside, NY school is a prep school. It is not uncommon for non-Americans to spend a year in Prep school to acclimitize themselves to the US eductaion system. Also, was it really the Blue Jays' responsibilities to recognize and promote the Triple-A teams of other organizations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor Theo Davis attended Father Henry Carr in Toronto. The Bayside, NY school is a prep school. It is not uncommon for non-Americans to spend a year in Prep school to acclimitize themselves to the US eductaion system. TSN has a list of D1 players on it's website. Theo's name isn't on it. quote:Originally posted by devioustrevor Also, was it really the Blue Jays' responsibilities to recognize and promote the Triple-A teams of other organizations? If they want to take credit for promoting baseball in Canada, they should. It wouldn't kill them now would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devioustrevor Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG TSN has a list of D1 players on it's website. Theo's name isn't on it. As far as I know he isn't in College yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted March 12, 2005 Author Share Posted March 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG They said the same thing about Carl English. Where is he now? Only on this board could you start with baseball broadcasts and end up with basketball [8D] Carl English is with the Florida Flame in the NBDL and has played 25 games started 11 and 686 minutes, scored 133 FG 285 FGA, 14 3POINT FG 25 3POINT FGA ,and has made 74 of 99 Free Throws for a total of 354 points.Second only to Karl Haston on the team at 411 points. I'm not aware of any other Canadians in what is billed as the premier devolpment league of the NBA. But I'm not really a great b-ball fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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