pstain Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I'm just wondering why we don't the CSA look at other nations in terms of player developments and leagues. I mean countries in Africa probably don't have as much funds as the CSA yet they can produce top quality players. Why can't we follow their model and develop players like them? And how can these countries maintain a soccer league even though they probably don't get much money from TV, attendance, etc. I know that Canada is large and travelling expenses would be high but I'm sure there can be an effective way to financially manage a soccer league in Canada. I'm just wondering if we should approach the models of the African nations when we develop players. I would like to hear your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 do the Africans produce players? or do the European clubs that they train make them into the stars they become. I think the later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorontoInferno Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 What came first ? Chicken or the egg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by G-Man do the Africans produce players? or do the European clubs that they train make them into the stars they become. I think the later. Many African-based players move to europe at around the age of 15/16 if they show good potential - just like many Canadians (Hargreaves/Hume/Lensky etc..) so yea I'm not sure what the difference between Africa/Canada really is... except they have much better domestic football and therefore produce better players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Stupid analogy but why do so many Europeans come to Canada to play Major Junior Hockey . Because that's where the the best competition and clubs are the same with Canadians going abroad for soccer. We all await the time when the location for best competition and clubs is so blurred that staying here for someone who wants to be a top flight soccer player is a reasonable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Why look at this as strictly a money issue? Yes, let's look to impoverished nations, relatively speaking, compare moneys, and then determine success. Countries like Nigeria and Cameroon are relatively central, and situated just above the equator. No winters! Play all year, even in sweltering summers. The question that needs to be asked is whether it is the quality or quantity of training that breeds success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Don't we do that already? Some players in our system play for Cruz Azul (Mexico) and a few for other South and Central American clubs. But since the best leagues, bar none, are in Europe, that's where most of the efforts are concentrated. I'm sure most global leagues (J-League, Aussie, K-League, African, etc.) are better than what we have (A-League, CPSL, etc.), but to make it feasible for our players they've got to get paid and also be developed. That's why MLS and Europe are the preferred routes by the CSA and most players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by pstain I mean countries in Africa probably don't have as much funds as the CSA yet they can produce top quality players. Why can't we follow their model and develop players like them? Well what is the model that african counties use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Saw and thing on TV5 and how some lower European clubs basically abuse their African players. sign them. and when their visa's run out and can't sell them. dump them on the streets without any money or even a ticket home. They end up in shelters on welfare. Great warm story. Africa is poor. Canada is not. Soccer needs poor people willing to do anything to get out of the slums. Brazil has no real system of development, except poverty. They have the numbers and the cream will always rise. We don't have poverty. And with the SYL teams entering the market. Only rich kids content with the status playing SYL will come out at the end of the system. They'll not be hungry enough to go that extra mile. France was doomed until all these poor arabs and africans started showing up on their National youth teams. It's what Italy needs. Canadain soccer is doomed unless we start importing the children of third world countries to play for us. Head to the Ivory Coast- get the best 20 u-15's families Canadian passports and jobs in Montreal. Train the kids with the Impact. And wait like France did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Tam N'saliwa, Deguzman, Oppong, Canizales are all children of Third World refugees of one type or another. As opposed to the children of Welsh/English migrants who can't wait to go play for the "mother" country. Or Italians who think they're good enough for the Azzuri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by canso Tam N'saliwa, Deguzman, Oppong, Canizales are all children of Third World refugees of one type or another. That's insulting to these guys' families. Are you sure they're refugees and not immigrants? 'Cause it's condescending to assume that because you came from a third world country that you're escaping something. Immigration is by choice, but NOT always opportunity. But I see what you mean.[}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by canso As opposed to the children of Welsh/English migrants who can't wait to go play for the "mother" country. Or Italians who think they're good enough for the Azzuri. I am not sure about the Hargreaves situation. Did he foster a desire to play for ol' Eng-er-land from youth, or was it a vulgar f**k- you to the CSA for not being picked to some sort of developmental/youth squad or other? And i think that it is the parents's fault when little giacomo/kenny/ernesto/horst/tibor/kumar wants to play for their mother country. Come on parents, instill some pride in the country you live in now, not the one you left. But, i will be more then happy to nationalise any kid with the skill set of Jay-Jay Okocha or Ronaldinho - not that i have the power to do so. Speaking of which, will Canadian soccer ever produce someone akin to the magician-esque Okocha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by redhat That's insulting to these guys' families. Are you sure they're refugees and not immigrants? 'Cause it's condescending to assume that because you came from a third world country that you're escaping something. Immigration is by choice, but NOT always opportunity. But I see what you mean.[}] It is not a "bad thing" to be a refugee. I get your point, but I think the clarification should be made. You almost suggest that to be a refugee is a lower form of immigrant. Not true at all. [8)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by juaninho I am not sure about the Hargreaves situation. Did he foster a desire to play for ol' Eng-er-land from youth, or was it a vulgar f**k- you to the CSA for not being picked to some sort of developmental/youth squad or other? And i think that it is the parents's fault when little giacomo/kenny/ernesto/horst/tibor/kumar wants to play for their mother country. Come on parents, instill some pride in the country you live in now, not the one you left. But, i will be more then happy to nationalise any kid with the skill set of Jay-Jay Okocha or Ronaldinho - not that i have the power to do so. Speaking of which, will Canadian soccer ever produce someone akin to the magician-esque Okocha? RE: Hargreaves: It is all a matter of opinion, but my gut tells me the whole "Fck you to the CSA" angle was an easy out. He probably did not think he had the chops to crack the English side and was ready to ply his international trade with Canada, but then things changed and he ditched us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver That is what I have believed all along. He was being courted by Wales prior to that and ended up not suiting up for Wales. Had he taken the "screw the CSA angle" then that would would have been clear from the start. Including the time when he was interviewed on soccer central Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Get over it boys. Speak of the devil, guess who scored the first and set up the second in Bayern Munich's 3-0 trashing of VfB Stuttgart in today's German FA Cup 3rd round game????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Ed Get over it boys. Speak of the devil, guess who scored the first and set up the second in Bayern Munich's 3-0 trashing of VfB Stuttgart in today's German FA Cup 3rd round game????? [}] Hey, all you HARGREAVES LOVERS!! YOUR JUST A BUNCH OF LOVERS!! Forza Thunder!![^] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 wow this turned fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Yes, let's take the Hargreaves talk to the General section. Better yet, why not use the search function and dig up one of the many threads that already exists on this topic? It's all been said before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver It is not a "bad thing" to be a refugee. I get your point, but I think the clarification should be made. You almost suggest that to be a refugee is a lower form of immigrant. Not true at all. [8)] Hmm, since when was MC2's, or Julian de Guzman's parents refugees? Or do you know that? IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T ASSUME. There's nothing wrong being a refugee. But if one just assumes (without really knowing) is at the very least wrong. And to assume based on race or ethnicity, even off the cuff, is condescending and maybe ethno-centric. I'm just reading between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver It is not a "bad thing" to be a refugee. I get your point, but I think the clarification should be made. You almost suggest that to be a refugee is a lower form of immigrant. Not true at all. [8)] Hmm, since when was MC2's, or Julian de Guzman's parents refugees? Or do you know that? IF YOU DON'T KNOW, DON'T ASSUME. There's nothing wrong being a refugee. But if one just assumes (without really knowing) is at the very least wrong. And to assume based on race or ethnicity, even off the cuff, is condescending and maybe ethno-centric. I'm just reading between the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Aren't all immigrants refugees, of one sort or another? If they weren't running away from something they would stay put, no? As to their official immigration status, who cares as long as they are here and proud to play for Canada. Of course, if Frank doesn't call em up, Tam and Oppong could both qualify for the DRCongo, which is dangerously close to qualifying for the World Cup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Tam has already played for Canada so I don't think he can play for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by canso Aren't all immigrants refugees, of one sort or another? If they weren't running away from something they would stay put, no? Umm, no way. I should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by canso Aren't all immigrants refugees, of one sort or another? If they weren't running away from something they would stay put, no? As to their official immigration status, who cares as long as they are here and proud to play for Canada. Of course, if Frank doesn't call em up, Tam and Oppong could both qualify for the DRCongo, which is dangerously close to qualifying for the World Cup! Tam is not from the DR Congo. You got the continent right, but he was born elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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