Kop Inspires American Rich-Kids

[Mimglow]

http://www.foxsportsworld.com/content/view?contentId=2084704

I've spent the best part of two decades coaching soccer in this country and the one thing that has never been in short supply is enthusiasm. Whether they be kids, men or women the players would always be excited to play. However, I've always felt that there is one vital ingredient missing from the game -- passion.

This weekend I invited my High School boy's team to my apartment to watch the FA Cup fourth round tie between Liverpool and Newcastle United. You should've seen their eyes widening as the surround sound immersed them, and my not-so-appreciative neighbors, in the noise and emotion of Anfield.

"Coach, what are the fans singing?", "Why does it mean so much?", "They're all crazy," were some of the comments about the fans as the match moved along.

When the contest entered injury time and Liverpool faithful in the Kop turned up the volume on 'You'll never walk alone' I could've sworn a couple of the kids looked misty-eyed as the crackling atmosphere seeped into them.

"Is this what you mean by passion?" one asked.

"The players looked as though they're be driven along by the crowd, feeding from their emotion," observed another.

This was nothing like going to the Lakers and having the announcer implore the audience to make some noise. This was real, spontaneous and passionate.

I explained that just as the crowd supports their team to the fullest extent, the players have an incredible desire to play as hard as possible, because deep within their souls is a love of the game that they've carried since they were kids. It's always been more than a game; it's a way of life.

The following day the boys played one of their local rivals on an onion patch of pitch with biased referees and a team intent on kicking them off the park.

Usually under these circumstances they'd fold quicker than a house of cards, but with the bench belting out a rousing edition of Liverpool's famous anthem, I noted a new resolve, a different emotion. They were up for the scrap and willing to sacrifice their bodies in a way they'd never previously done.

That's no big deal I can hear you muttering, kids get stuck into each other throughout the land every day. However, I coach at one of the most exclusive private high school's in the country. These kids drive to school in BMWs, Mercedes and Porches.

They've never had to really battle for anything and if they lose, it's no big deal, there's always a party at some fabulous mansion to go to.

I couldn't help but wonder if the FA Cup with its magic and history had lit a fire within these kids. As they came off the pitch after holding out for a gut-wrenching three-two win, I knew it had. They all spoke of a churning in their stomachs, the determination to leave it all out there and a new found feeling of love along with respect of their teammates.

Seniors were hugging spotty freshman, petty jealousies were put aside as 'we' had become a team united by a common cause. We're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen.

The Kop certainly felt that victorious unity after taking care of the Magpies a day earlier. Once again, Gerard Houllier proved that he's a man who knows when to get a result.

After losing to Spurs and tying Wolves, I was fairly convinced that a defeat would finally bring his reign to an end, but you just can't write him off. He knows that value of the Cup. The old competition might have taken a bashing recently, but it's a tournament that still means plenty to the fans and the players, especially those out of contention for Premiership glory.

Hey, if it can inspire a bunch of Southern California kids, you know that it still has a quality that the Premier League will never have; History, magic, emotion and priceless passion.

Until then, get the beers in.

Nick Webster

[Mimglow]

Just loved this article, as it reminds me of how I've converted a whole bunch of my friends to the sport. I love the look on their faces when they get into it and realize what the meaning of "passion" is. Nothing equates to it in North America.

[bettermirror]

and that's why i love the beautiful game!

[JayWay]

C.O.R.N.Y! (and cliche)

There's alot of truth in that article, but..meh.. foreigners going on about the "passion" and "beauty" of football culture never fails to make me gag (especially in this case, in which the famed Kop is generally regarded as being a shadow of it's former all-standing self, and is now occupied by Japanese tourists and Norweigan day-trippers).

I saw the game in question, and I didn't feel the team reaped any special motivation from the crowd. It was just a desperate team, in a desperate situation playing up to the moment. I think the author was grasping at straws to try and stir emotion.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

Just loved this article, as it reminds me of how I've converted a whole bunch of my friends to the sport. I love the look on their faces when they get into it and realize what the meaning of "passion" is. Nothing equates to it in North America.

I totally disagree.

This what I'm talking about when I refer to the over-glamorization outsiders attribute to football culture. Fans singing loudly does not equal passion. Do those fans have passion. Oh yes, tons. But it doesn't make them any better than fans of other sports who aren't as vocal. In fact, with the global popularity of soccer and it's culture nowadays, I'd almost say it's the opposite. Fans attracted to the game now tend to sing just because they feel that's what they're supposed to do. It's cool to sing, and it's what the "real" fans do.

I think Jeffrey S summed it up nicely a while ago. The guy sitting on his hands quitely watching the match who has collected every game on tape, memorized every stat of every player on his team and who can recall the faintest memories of his team because he cares so much about them is just as much, if not more of a fan than those singing.

Don't tell me that Hockey fans don't have as much passion in general as football fans just cause they wern't brough up to sing songs. Hell, we're the country that went through a fricken identity crisis that forced an expensive national summit just because we lost one game. THAT'S passion (or over-excessive and dangerous obsession...). Hockey is ingrained into our culture just like football is ingrained into the cultures of man Europeans. Singing is not difference of who has more passion.

Something tells me I'm gonna be hated after this one

[SABuffalo786]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

I totally disagree.

This what I'm talking about when I refer to the over-glamorization outsiders attribute to football culture. Fans singing loudly does not equal passion. Do those fans have passion. Oh yes, tons. But it doesn't make them any better than fans of other sports who aren't as vocal. In fact, with the global popularity of soccer and it's culture nowadays, I'd almost say it's the opposite. Fans attracted to the game now tend to sing just because they feel that's what they're supposed to do. It's cool to sing, and it's what the "real" fans do.

I think Jeffrey S summed it up nicely a while ago. The guy sitting on his hands quitely watching the match who has collected every game on tape, memorized every stat of every player on his team and who can recall the faintest memories of his team because he cares so much about them is just as much, if not more of a fan than those singing.

Don't tell me that Hockey fans don't have as much passion in general as football fans just cause they wern't brough up to sing songs. Hell, we're the country that went through a fricken identity crisis that forced an expensive national summit just because we lost one game. THAT'S passion (or over-excessive and dangerous obsession...). Hockey is ingrained into our culture just like football is ingrained into the cultures of man Europeans. Singing is not difference of who has more passion.

Something tells me I'm gonna be hated after this one

No, Jay, you're absolutley correct. I used to think that baseball fans, American football fans were dispassionate people when I started being a hardcore soccer fan. "Where's the noise? Where's the energy?" But the reasons you give are totally on base. Passion is a different thing to differnet people.

Personally, I'd much rather be involved than being quiet, but hey. If you wanna fill out all kinds of stats during the game or just quietly appreciate a spectacular play, more power to you.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Something tells me I'm gonna be hated after this one

Not from this quarter. I agree with you and was going to post something very similar. I won't take anything away from the various displays by the world's football fans. They are great. But I have also stuffed myself into the Watson arena, along with 50%+ of the town to watch a "big" bantam hockey game. Anyone who wants to suggest that Canadians are not just as passionate about hockey, simply hasn't been paying attention.

[DJT]

I agree with JayWay as well. And it's not just because I am one of the people described by Jeffrey (maybe not with every game on tape, and I have enough other things to think about than memorizing stats, but you get my drift []).

I think the main point is that "passion" is a more general word than how it is being used in the article. "Passion" to me is simply caring a lot about something to the extent that it occupies a great deal of time/space/whatever in your mind and in your life. How, or even whether, you express that passion is irrelevant to whether, or in what quantity, it exists.

Now, I do find that there is a big difference between what happens in the soccer stadiums of soccer-crazy countries and in most North American stadiums/arenas. It is this difference, which basically concerns how the respective fans' passion is expressed, that this article is really talking about.

[argh1]

Although , this article may be about inspiring spoiled children to care if they win or lose.

What I take from this article is that the writer has his own view of passion. If noise level is his gauge, has he never seen the home QB in an NFL game signal for quiet or the loud chants of D-E-F-E-N-S-E when the away team has the ball. Or LES CANADIENS chants or the NA-NA-NA song at the Forum ah Molson ah Bell Centre.( the Habs glory days of the '60's and 70's , will return:D)

Or is this article about the fact that North Americans do not view soccer as their game. Although we don't have elite world leagues. We will and do have our ways of showing passion. Emulating what we see in other countries may not be our way showing passion.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

I think Jeffrey S summed it up nicely a while ago. The guy sitting on his hands quitely watching the match who has collected every game on tape, memorized every stat of every player on his team and who can recall the faintest memories of his team because he cares so much about them is just as much, if not more of a fan than those singing.

The only problem in North America is that the die-hard fan "sitting on his hands quitely watching the match" is probably watching the match at home on TV. I think fans at soccer stadiums around the World are WAY more passionate and much better fans than the average person at an NHL, NBA or baseball game. Sports has become to corporate here while ticket prices are still pocket change in most places where soccer is big!

But I do agree with you that that article is corny and only gives me another reason to hate Liverpool. Plus I agree that the soccer fan singing is not necessarily a better fan than one sitting quietly (he's just more likely to be wasted).

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Don't tell me that Hockey fans don't have as much passion in general as football fans just cause they wern't brought up to sing songs.

In general, okay. BUt football is bigger in Liverpool than hockey is in any big Canadian city. And that just goes back to what someone said on another thread here "Canada is not geared toward sport" that much. I just don't find Canadian hockey fans very knowledgeble about NHL teams and players at all. And I'm really gonna be hated by saying that, but oh well...

[Mimglow]

You guys are on crack.

I recently received "The History of Soccer" dvd for X-mas, and realized from watching the first two episodes entitled "Origins" and "Football Culture" that we just don't get it. The sport is so engrained into the fabric of life in these cultures, that we will never experience anything similar in our sheltered little North American lives.

It's very noble of all of you to defend North American sports fans, but we have nothing that compares. Nothing that even comes close.

[argh1]

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

You guys are on crack.

I recently received "The History of Soccer" dvd for X-mas, and realized from watching the first two episodes entitled "Origins" and "Football Culture" that we just don't get it. The sport is so engrained into the fabric of life in these cultures, that we will never experience anything similar in our sheltered little North American lives.

It's very noble of all of you to defend North American sports fans, but we have nothing that compares. Nothing that even comes close.

So do you know, where I left my pipe;)

Or you could get a copy of the Legends of Hockey or ahhhhhhhh I forget his name!! Some-body's BASEBALL that PBS aired a few years ago. No, I haven't seen the HISTORY of SOCCER yet.

But untill we make soccer our own game we have to import other's tradition I guess:(

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

The only problem in North America is that the die-hard fan "sitting on his hands quitely watching the match" is probably watching the match at home on TV. I think fans at soccer stadiums around the World are WAY more passionate and much better fans than the average person at an NHL, NBA or baseball game. Sports has become to corporate here while ticket prices are still pocket change in most places where soccer is big!

But I do agree with you that that article is corny and only gives me another reason to hate Liverpool. Plus I agree that the soccer fan singing is not necessarily a better fan than one sitting quietly (he's just more likely to be wasted).

In general, okay. BUt football is bigger in Liverpool than hockey is in any big Canadian city. And that just goes back to what someone said on another thread here "Canada is not geared toward sport" that much. I just don't find Canadian hockey fans very knowledgeble about NHL teams and players at all. And I'm really gonna be hated by saying that, but oh well...

Re: Sitting at home. This is true, but you have to put it in context. It's much easier to pack the working class into a 40,000 seater stadia with a non-ticketed section going for $4 a pop, than it is with a 20,000 all-seater hockey arena where most of the tickets are already bought up by the corporate sector.

As a result cultures surrounding both sports have developed in different directions. But again, different does not mean one is better than the other. I think that the image of the Canadian family sitting around the radio on Saturday night listening to Foster Hewitt is just as ingrained into the Canadian cultural psyche as standing on the terraces on a cold Saturday afternoon is in any British region.

And I wouldn't call some of the more vocal fans better than those who sit on their hands. Lazio fans are vocal, but they are also prone to raiding their team's training sessions in times of poor results and putting their players in physical danger. Leafs fan may be dead quiet, but you can't argue their dedication

The fans (select fans, atleast) of certain teams are also known to rank the colour of a players skin higher than the the colour of the jersey he is wearing. I remember reading about one team who boycotted a game and painted their skin black in protest of the abuse their one coloured teammate was getting from their own fans. This is a minority ofcourse, but I'm just bringing it up to show that vocal activity does not always equal the best fans.

I suppose you could say that Canadians show bias against Europeans, but hey, Mats Sundin was voted the most popular athlete in Toronto.

Re: Football being bigger in Liverpool, do you have stats or proof to back that up?

I don't think sports plays any less of a role in Canada. If you look at Canadian history, sports has always been a huge part of the social makeup. Football, Hockey, Lacrosse. These have always been a part in establishing a Canadian identity (notice the trend in violence in all of these sports ). The battle between the professionalization and amature roots of sports was just as intense in Canada as in any other country, and this was in part due to the population's view on sports important role in moulding young Canadians.

You can't look at the identity crisis that Canada went through during the Summit Series and the Olympics, as well as after the World Cup of Hockey, and seriously tell me that sports don't play a large role in our society.

Even in the case of Canada as a diverse and often conflicted country, Hockey has often been one of the more consistent unifiers. In a country as diverse regionally and culturally, it's pretty impressive at how much of role Hockey plays in gluing the nation together. In Toronto, one of the central themes for assimilation of immigrants is Hockey. Ethnic communities make up some of the Leafs' most passionate supporters. Here's a recent article that provides an example of this:

http://www.macleans.ca/switchboard/overtoyou/article.jsp?content=20040126_73745_73745

Can you name me any other country that can match Canada on the scale of sports' role in unifying a country? I think the image of soccer as a key element of European culture compared to Hockey or other North American sports as just a middle-class spare-time hobby is wide of the mark.

[Canuck Oranje]

I won't argue with hockey's role in Canada. Having been in Brazil, soccer has the same role there, and not only at the professional level. I won't say either is better than the other.

Kitchener-Waterloo goes crazy over a Junior hockey Memorial Cup win. The City of Sao Paulo has the sound of fireworks in the air after Corinthians scores in an away game. There are hardcore fans everywhere for every sport.

I have to say though that there is nothing like sitting in a gritty soccer stadium watching the home team score in a soccer mad country. My preference.

Then I would also love to experience a University of Michigan football game someday. In short, every sport has its culture. And as humans, we have our preferences.

[Canuck Oranje]

I won't argue with hockey's role in Canada. Having been in Brazil, soccer has the same role there, and not only at the professional level. I won't say either is better than the other.

Kitchener-Waterloo goes crazy over a Junior hockey Memorial Cup win. The City of Sao Paulo has the sound of fireworks in the air after Corinthians scores in an away game. There are hardcore fans everywhere for every sport.

I have to say though that there is nothing like sitting in a gritty soccer stadium watching the home team score in a soccer mad country. My preference.

Then I would also love to experience a University of Michigan football game someday. In short, every sport has its culture. And as humans, we have our preferences.

[Cheeta]

Interesting to see how this topic can bring out a discussion.

So for my two bits...

Re; Hockey and the Great White North. Having spent a lot of time as a wee cub in the upper deck at the Arena I'll happily argue to great lenghts the intensity of Canadians passion for the game on the grand scale of such things. I'll add that you could notice real changes in the atmosphere of the place in the '90s though. Pricing pushed a lot of people out of the market. Management was trying to make the games more of "an event" (as if it wasn't already that). Our world infamous organ player was replaced by inspiring music before face-offs, blah, blah, blah. The building was becoming louder but the supporters were now watching an event as opposed to being part of one. I didn't much care for the shift. Nor did many others. Guess we're just dinosaurs.

The long and short of that whine is you don't get a fraction of that sort of crap going on a Celtic Park. Or Highbury. Fans are allowed to make their own energy and have developed rituals to show their support. They don't need some event manager to tell them to Make Noise. Or get the kiddies to scream for a 5 cent bag of peanuts. And in that line of thought hockey fans didn't get into the habit of clapping the lads off the ice for a line change after a show of good effort because some marketer pulled it out of his arse. Or jeering and yelling between plays. Hard to get your fellows into a game when all the can hear is some piped in crap through the arena loud speakers. The less energetic fans have always been inspired by the (sometimes nearly violent) passion coming down from the cheap seats. And that's where hockey in a lot of cities has gone wrong. The market has changed and I don't think it's any surprise that the NHL in some quarters is finding it impossible to reproduce "The Event" which used to be a hockey game when they've driven away in effect, that portion of their support which was so important to making their product an event.

Wheeh. That's a lot of typing. Hope some of it make scense.

Re; Passion for the game. Where I come from passion=energy. Some people are lounder and more energetic than others, true enough. But you'll not convice me the noisey idiots aren't doing more than the obsessed mouse to support their club. TRUE Passion is ment to be worn on your sleeve. Against your general nature or no. Anything less is just pretending.

So in summary. Hockey to Canadians is football to most of Europe, SA, etc. NHL marketing sucks balls, is destroying Canadian culture. Passion=energy energy=action action=noise. Lack of noise=lack of passion.

P.S. Rich kids in coach's apartment should try sitting in the cheap seats for a season instead of court side. Am sure they'll find what it is their hearts need to know about sport.

P.S.S. Of course, it could just be these kids have seen for the first time in their lives someone gives a fu'k about soccer. Don't think we get much of that in NA.

ZenCheeta

1 Cheap Seat

Winnipeg, MB

[sstackho]

I recently went to my first basketball game of the year and they literally played music with EVERY possession. I remember when they used to play music for a few seconds just at the start of a home team possession, but now it was on constantly whenever the ball was in play. (Well, I remember when there was no music, but that's a different era) The music changes with every possession.

There were two times that the crowd actually started making a collective noise on their own (rhythmic clapping, albeit started by the mascot) but as soon as it got going, it got drowned out by music. That really bugs me. I hate when the odd time that hockey fans get a cheer/taunt going, if there's a break in play, the music/ads will drown it out.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Re: Football being bigger in Liverpool, do you have stats or proof to back that up?

Well, tough to measure people's passion with stats. I could remind you that Arsenal have about a 12-year waiting-list on season's tickets while many (most?) hockey games in Canada don't even sell-out at all. Or that about 20% of the World (1.2 billion) watched Arsenal-Man Utd game last April (according to Reuters). How many hockey games in Canada are even watched by 20% of the population within the city its being played in??

But really stats don't tell the whole story. For many football fans in Britain, football is their whole life. Don't know of too many Canadian's who feel that way about hockey. I mean, look at the money passionate soccer fans put into their favorite hobbey!! (eg. thousands of Celtic fans travelling to to Spain last May just to watch the UEFA Cup final at a bar in Seville!!)

There's really no comparison.

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

The less energetic fans have always been inspired by the (sometimes nearly violent) passion coming down from the cheap seats. And that's where hockey in a lot of cities has gone wrong.

ZenCheeta

1 Cheap Seat

Winnipeg, MB

Actually, in the new hockey stadiums the cheap seats are SO far from the ice that there is no atmosphere created up there either. Plus the boards and glass don't move or make any noise when players are body-checked into them anymore. Geez! If they TRIED to make hockey more boring, they couldn't have done any better than this!

[JayWay]

I'll reply by number cause I can't be arsed with this quoting stuff.

1) Does this make Man United the most passionately followed team in the world? You can't compare hockey and soccer on a popularity level. Soccer will win everytime. Not only is it the most followed game on Earth, but it's massive marketing all stretches of the Eart since the early 90's is just insane. You get more Premiership games on T.V in Singapore than you do in England!

I can't vouch for the other teams (although I do know the Canadiens are #1 in attendance right now), but the Leafs haven't gone a game without selling out for more than a decade, probably more. The ACC holds 18,800 and the Leafs average over 19,000 a game.

It's also unfair to compare soccer games to hockey because the regular season in Hockey just goes on and on, and meaningless games of that quantity are tough to sell out night after night. It's the same for soccer. I remember Liverpool's first game back in CL competition against Boavista, I believe. Anfield was half empty. You always see Premiership stadia half empty for early poor FA Cup matchups and Worthington Cup matches, and these games are arguably more important than just another regular season NHL game.

As for the 20% stat, tell me how many of those viewers are genuine fans and not just interested soccer fans or glory hunters. And what's with this contention that Brits live for soccer but there's no Canadians who do the same (how do you judge that btw?)?

And yes, I'd figure for an important game that 20% of Toronto watches a Leafs game (remember, I can only speak for my city). Have you ever been here during hockey season? Do you know how nuts the coverage is here? Let me do a run down for you of the daily Leafs programming.

Leafs Breakfast

Leafs Brunch

Leafs Lunch

Leaf Talk

After The Horn

If you get Digital TV you can get live coverage of Leafs PRACTICES.

And this is not mentioning all the other sports shows that are just dominated by Leafs talk.

2) Me and Ryan Keay were at the ACC this past weekend for the Leafs skills competition (sold out, btw) and we were in the dead last row. Aside from having my view of the score board abstructed by the press box, I can honestly say my view of the ice was very good. And yes, the glass still does shake. Hell, the ACC even mics it into the arena sound system so every bit of contact made with the boards reverberates throughout the arena.

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Well, tough to measure people's passion with stats. I could remind you that Arsenal have about a 12-year waiting-list on season's tickets while many (most?) hockey games in Canada don't even sell-out at all. Or that about 20% of the World (1.2 billion) watched Arsenal-Man Utd game last April (according to Reuters). How many hockey games in Canada are even watched by 20% of the population within the city its being played in??

But really stats don't tell the whole story. For many football fans in Britain, football is their whole life. Don't know of too many Canadian's who feel that way about hockey. I mean, look at the money passionate soccer fans put into their favorite hobbey!! (eg. thousands of Celtic fans travelling to to Spain last May just to watch the UEFA Cup final at a bar in Seville!!)

There's really no comparison.

Actually, in the new hockey stadiums the cheap seats are SO far from the ice that there is no atmosphere created up there either. Plus the boards and glass don't move or make any noise when players are body-checked into them anymore. Geez! If they TRIED to make hockey more boring, they couldn't have done any better than this!

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

I'll reply by number cause I can't be arsed with this quoting stuff.

1) Does this make Man United the most passionately followed team in the world?

Maybe. I dunno really. But a Man Utd fan in Ireland, Singapore or New York (or wherever) would probably be more passionate than a Maple Leafs fan living 3 miles from the ACC! It's just the way it is.

I mean, again its hard to measure passion with stats. I just tried to throw out a couple of examples off the top of my head. But do you have any idea how big the city of Toronto is compared to, say, Arsenal? If hockey in Canada was like football in England, Toronto would have 10 professional hockey teams and support them all well. If everyone in Toronto went to the ACC for a Leafs game just once every 5 years, the ACC would still be sold-out every game!

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Have you ever been here during hockey season? Do you know how nuts the coverage is here? Let me do a run down for you of the daily Leafs programming.

Leafs Breakfast

Leafs Brunch

Leafs Lunch

Leaf Talk

After The Horn

If you get Digital TV you can get live coverage of Leafs PRACTICES.

Oh boy. Practices? Now I think we're deviating from the topic "passionate fans" to the topic of "guys who desperately need a girlfriend ... or at least a life..."

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

2) Me and Ryan Keay were at the ACC this past weekend for the Leafs skills competition (sold out, btw) and we were in the dead last row. Aside from having my view of the score board abstructed by the press box, I can honestly say my view of the ice was very good. And yes, the glass still does shake.

But compared</u> to the old Chicago Stadium, the Boston Gahden and the current MSG - the view & atmosphere is crap (not counting those seats in these older arenas that are totally obstructed )!

[JayWay]

quote:Maybe. I dunno really. But a Man Utd fan in Ireland, Singapore or New York (or wherever) would probably be more passionate than a Maple Leafs fan living 3 miles from the ACC! It's just the way it is.

How do you figure that? I disagree strongly. This comment is especially dissapointing on a Canadian soccer board, a sporting organization that suffers because of fans just like those in Singapore who support Man U.

quote:But do you have any idea how big the city of Toronto is compared to, say, Arsenal?

You mean London?

quote:If hockey in Canada was like football in England, Toronto would have 10 professional hockey teams and support them all well.

Totally irrelevant. Soccer and Hockey come from completely seperate worlds and histories when it comes to the buisness side of sports. And Toronto has one professional team, and we support them just fine, thank you.

But do you think that Merseyside is a poor footballing region? It has 5 teams (that I know of). Only two are supported well.

quote:Oh boy. Practices? Now I think we're deviating from the topic "passionate fans" to the topic of "guys who desperately need a girlfriend ... or at least a life..."

We do have a life...it's Hockey :-D

quote:But compared to the old Chicago Stadium, the Boston Gahden and the current MSG - the view & atmosphere is crap (not counting those seats in these older arenas that are totally obstructed )!

The same can be said for many soccer stadiums. See Juventus fans' passionate pleas to leave the Stadio Del Alpine Skiing due to it's lack of atmosphere and poor structure. Go see the Anfield4Ever movement which strongly opposed a move to a new stadium, partly because it would jeapordize the atmosphere and would give in to a more corporate feel.

That's sports, and, unfortunately, soccer qualifies.

[argh1]

Look, guys , if its soccer or rugby or cricket. Or Hockey in Canada ( 6 NHL teams , 4 AHL teams , 50 some CHL teams, and maybe 70? CJAHL teams ) We all have our passion. Canada has shown our passion for hockey way back in 1955 with the (ROCKET) Maurice Richard riot! Or the '72 series!!

Ask the Texas football guys 'bout passion or how about MARCH MADNESS in basketball.

I remember reading somewhere (and I can't quote it) that the RWC is the # 4 in world advertising dollars and the CRICKET WORLD CUP like in the top 7 for advert revenue.

Baseball in the U.S. is unbelievable for top pro, minor leagues and college support .

So my point .......if I rembember what it was......is just 'cuz we may follow a sport don't minimize the passion for others.

[Mimglow]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

You mean London?

Arsenal is not London. Just like Etobicoke is not Toronto. Arsenal is located in the Highbury district of London. The that eluded you was that every neighborhood in London has a football club.

[JayWay]

Regardless, the argument would only be valid if Arsenal took the majority of it's fan-base from that represented area. This, ofcourse, is far from the truth. Not only is Arsenal very much a London club, but I'd say due to the marketing scheme of the top tier of football clubs these days, they are moreso global club.

You can't compare the potential fanbases of a hockey team and a soccer club like Arsenal. The marketing reach of teams like Arsenal means the soccer club will win everytime.

quote:Originally posted by Mimglow

Arsenal is not London. Just like Etobicoke is not Toronto. Arsenal is located in the Highbury district of London. The that eluded you was that every neighborhood in London has a football club.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

How do you figure that? I disagree strongly. This comment is especially dissapointing on a Canadian soccer board, a sporting organization that suffers because of fans just like those in Singapore who support Man U.

I'm confused now. How do Man Utd fans in Singapore hurt the sport of football?