Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I've seen lots of articles about possible Barça signings on the wires, which I am a bit surprised by. Latest is Beckham as all have seen, though reading a bit carefully you'll see that almost always it is some candidate for the team presidency who is suggesting a pre-contract with some player. All such deals are designed to try to swing Barça club members to vote for the candidate in question. In the case of Beckham it was Joan Laporta, who is running 2nd or third in the race, with the elections in a few weeks. Notably the front-runner, Lluís Bassat, has not spoken of any player or coach signing, as he needs no bait to convince folks to vote for him. He has about 40% support in polls. Mind you, he has just announced that Guardiola will be the sports director of the team if he wins, so that is a huge piece of bait for sure. So ignore almost everything out of Barcelona, as it has more to do with an internal election than any valid process of signing. Right now the team has an interim administration until the new president takes power. (For those curious, Barça has 105,000 club members who are effectively the owners of the team. Of these about 90,000 have the right to vote, the others are minors. Elections for Barça are hard fought, there are about six candidates officially in the race and money spent on elections, plus postering, press, makes the elections resemble a mid-sized city election. For all us Barça fans who are not members essentially we are living the debates in the hope that by proxy our favourites will come through and win the presidency, much like women did (and do depending where you live) before univeral suffrage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Now that sounds like fun. Beckham's sure to go to Spain. It's a weird world sometimes but I'd be surprised to not see a move. Beckham watch is in full season. Beckam this year (likely), Larson next year (would put money on it), that's quite a loss for northern football. Were's all this money coming from? Minority of one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I wouldn't put it past a candidate though. Real brought in Figo as an election promise a few years ago so if he does get elected and Beckham DOESN'T go to Barca, then that just looks bad. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Alex M I wouldn't put it past a candidate though. Real brought in Figo as an election promise a few years ago so if he does get elected and Beckham DOESN'T go to Barca, then that just looks bad. Alex You are perfectly right, if he announces it he has to fulfill the promise. The thing is he won't get elected, he is about 25 points back and was in fact part of the front-runner's candidacy 3 years ago when he lost to what was to be the most disastrous president in club history, Gaspart. The frontrunner Bassat, as said, simply makes no such promises. As for what happened with Figo, a great move on the president's part, he certainly won for that. He also said, "if I win and I don't bring Figo from Barça, I'll personally, from my own pocket, pay everyone's season's tickets for a year." Pretty deadly stuff. Of course Figo going to Madrid would be like Beckham going to, well, what team do Man Utd supporters hate the most? Arsenal lately? Treason for votes, don't think Becks would play into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yes, but wasn't current Real president Florentino Perez waaaaaaay back in the polls when he made that claim, and Figo signing that agreement because he never though Perez would win? Anything can happen, especially when you attach your name to someone like David Beckham. Just ask Figo. Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 BBC story today indicating that Man U has admitted to discussions with A rep of the Barcelona candidate. Is Beckham big enough to swing the election? Also, is Joan a common man's name in Spain, or are my eyes and reading comprehension skills rapidly deteriorating (I am sure the Beeb report refers to Joan Laporta as he). In a World full of caterpillars it takes balls to be a butterfly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gordon BBC story today indicating that Man U has admitted to discussions with A rep of the Barcelona candidate. Is Beckham big enough to swing the election? Also, is Joan a common man's name in Spain, or are my eyes and reading comprehension skills rapidly deteriorating (I am sure the Beeb report refers to Joan Laporta as he). First off Joan is the Catalan version of Juan, and is likely the second most common men's name in Catalunya, after Jordi (Jorge). Ever heard of the modern painter Joan Miró, has a big foundation-musuem in Barcelona? Well this is what we are talking about, Laporta and his bid for Beckham. First off, Beckham is not big enough to swing the elections, since the signing announcement is just speculative, and it is not binding. ManUtd doesn't have to sell him to anyone. Until the president is elected and announces the new coach likely nothing will come clear, though Barça definitely need a striking complement to Kluivert-Saviola, and perhaps another central defender as de Boer and Andersson are ageing. So folks are not even clear we need a Beckham at Barça. Personally I'd prefer someone like Chivu and a striker like Mackaay at Depor. As for Florentino Pérez, he could promise to sign Figo as in Spain, unlike elsewhere, there are recision clauses on all contracts, with a price established to allow a player to break any contract. I think Figo's was around 50 million US. You pay it and the player is free and his club can't do anything about it. Figo was pissed off with the then president Nuñez and was happy to betray our passion for him. At Madrid they liked that, we are always trying to screw each other. In any case Pérez was perhaps behind in polls, but there were only two candidates and he had maybe 40% with him already. At Barça there are 6 candidates and Laporta is polling around 15% to leader Bassat's 35% or so. Elections June 15 I think. If a top Real Madrid player was ready to jump to Barça and had an accessible clause, that could swing an election if a candidate announced it. Raúl or Zidane, anyone else is not admired, nor even wanted, with exceptions like Makelele, an essential player at Madrid by the way. But their clauses, just because of the Figo affair, are astronomical. Now they are almost fictitious, humouristic. An example is Denilson at Betis, his clause is something like 400 million dollars. Espanyol a few years back, just to trump all other teams, put a clause of something even higher on a senior defender ready to retire and given an extra year contract, just so he could say he was the most expensive player in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gordon BBC story today indicating that Man U has admitted to discussions with A rep of the Barcelona candidate. Is Beckham big enough to swing the election? Also, is Joan a common man's name in Spain, or are my eyes and reading comprehension skills rapidly deteriorating (I am sure the Beeb report refers to Joan Laporta as he). First off Joan is the Catalan version of Juan, and is likely the second most common men's name in Catalunya, after Jordi (Jorge). Ever heard of the modern painter Joan Miró, has a big foundation-musuem in Barcelona? Well this is what we are talking about, Laporta and his bid for Beckham. First off, Beckham is not big enough to swing the elections, since the signing announcement is just speculative, and it is not binding. ManUtd doesn't have to sell him to anyone. Until the president is elected and announces the new coach likely nothing will come clear, though Barça definitely need a striking complement to Kluivert-Saviola, and perhaps another central defender as de Boer and Andersson are ageing. So folks are not even clear we need a Beckham at Barça. Personally I'd prefer someone like Chivu and a striker like Mackaay at Depor. As for Florentino Pérez, he could promise to sign Figo as in Spain, unlike elsewhere, there are recision clauses on all contracts, with a price established to allow a player to break any contract. I think Figo's was around 50 million US. You pay it and the player is free and his club can't do anything about it. Figo was pissed off with the then president Nuñez and was happy to betray our passion for him. At Madrid they liked that, we are always trying to screw each other. In any case Pérez was perhaps behind in polls, but there were only two candidates and he had maybe 40% with him already. At Barça there are 6 candidates and Laporta is polling around 15% to leader Bassat's 35% or so. Elections June 15 I think. If a top Real Madrid player was ready to jump to Barça and had an accessible clause, that could swing an election if a candidate announced it. Raúl or Zidane, anyone else is not admired, nor even wanted, with exceptions like Makelele, an essential player at Madrid by the way. But their clauses, just because of the Figo affair, are astronomical. Now they are almost fictitious, humouristic. An example is Denilson at Betis, his clause is something like 400 million dollars. Espanyol a few years back, just to trump all other teams, put a clause of something even higher on a senior defender ready to retire and given an extra year contract, just so he could say he was the most expensive player in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desigol Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 There is a rumour that a Real player will be going to Barca. Now, it won't be Raul (as he bleeds White) nor Zidane (as he wants to lead a private life and Barca is media obsessed). Also, could you see Barca fans welcoming back Figo with open arms? I think not. The most likely candidates are Morientes or Portillo. You don't win friends with salad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. quote] First off, Beckham is not big enough to swing the elections, since the signing announcement is just speculative, and it is not binding. I gotta say, I somewhat agreed with you when you made this statement, but look at how things are swinging now! Quote from Soccernet: Lluis Bassat has been the early pacemaker in the polls for the presidency of the sleeping Catalan giants but since recent press conferences in which Laporta has talked of his negotiations for Beckham he has started to narrow the gap. Yesterday`s announcement by Manchester United that Spanish and Italian clubs were negotiating to buy their most-famous playing asset could see that trend continue. Bassat has seen his share of the intended vote fall from 39.5% to 26.6%, with Laporta absorbing most of those votes and climbing up from 13.5 to 23.5% and looking the only candidate likely to mount a serious challenge. Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Well you may be right, but as Bassat says, he wont' comment on signings until after elecctions, everything else is electoralist. One other candidate agrees. He has also claimed, probably right, that the agent of Beckham spoke to him first. Logical, you don't go talk to the guy with 13% in the polls first. I liked what Minguella, a candidate and former player agent (Romario, Stoichkov, Rivaldo) said, how do you expect to succeed with Beckham when its Saviola who has to head in his crosses? I liked the announced signing by another candidate of Chivu, now that is an interesting player. In any case folks are so keen to start anew here they are leaning to Laporta who is very dynamic and a good speaker. And he is the youngest of the bunch. I personally don't trust him, he is too personalist, egocentric, and his business experience is weak. Bassat is an international partner of Ogilvy Mather and a brilliant money-man. But after a recent tv debate it seems Bassat is fading and Laporta could pull it off, though I think he'll not be a great president for the club, though I hope he proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWay Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Jeffrey, Reaction? Will this seal the deal for Laporta, or could the Barca fans still vote another way? "Winning is most important. Everything is a consequence of that." -Ayrton Senna (1960 - 1994) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Jeffrey, are you a member of Barcelona? Do you have a vote? Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 How is the vote conducted? Do all the members cram into the stadium, or do they mail-in? Do they have a run-off if no canadidate gets 50%, or do they have a first-past-the-post system like an MP election in Canada? A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow Jeffrey, are you a member of Barcelona? Do you have a vote? Well I am not a member of the club, if I go to games I just buy tickets. So I don't vote. It is back to the middle ages in some ways, like when only the nobles had a vote and supposedly all their subjects were represented by them. 95,000 Barça voters and maybe 10 million fans worldwide (Barça has, to give an example, 1500 fan clubs worldwide). In fact all of Western democracy in its best forms still use the model of proxy democracy with minors, or with immigrants without right to vote, in Canada I think prisoners can't vote either unless they changed that (a scandal in my opinion); you hope or even lobby for someone else to vote for you. You vote like at any election, go to the stadium and place your vote in an urn on a voting day. Imagine a small city, say of 150,000. Not more complicated, only there's just the one polling station. There is also vote by post for those away. The candidate with the most votes wins, like in a Canadian riding. The winner should take it with about 30-35% this year. I must say that all the candidates are pretty decent in fact, the debates have been fairly good and they are probably all competent enough. It actually is not that expensive to be a member. You pay a one-time membership which is less than 1000 CDN and then you pay for your season's tickets, then each year a smaller member's fee. Many folks make their newborns members, you regularly see babies wrapped in Barça scarfs with their member's card on their diaper bulges in the popular Barcelona sports press. Barça never charges more for European games nor Cup, so in the end, like this year, you can see the 19 league games and some 12-15 others. In any case the season's ticket prices depend on where you sit but you can't find decent ones, there are long waiting lists as you wait for someone to quit. Most people get season's tickets by "renting" (as they say here) someone else's card (there are no photos, it is like a credit card with a magnetic band). I have a friend you once played with Freiburg youth who knows the Canucks in Germany by the way, who does this. So there are few loose tickets available for good games. One thing you can do is buy on a kind of Ticketmaster tickets ceded for specific games by club members (they are limited to how many times they can do it in a year). More on this, with 105,000 club members it is technically always sold out, nothing available for the new Uefa capacity of 98,000. But many fans actually are members just to see basketball (Barça is European champ this year) or even Handball, which draws up to 8,000 for big games (Barça has been the winningest club in Europe over the past 10 years). Even roller hockey has lots of fans (Barça, am I repeating myself? is the team which has won most European Championships in this too). So not all members request Camp Nou seats. I think there are about 3,000 available at ticket windows on normal days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Well I am not a member of the club, if I go to games I just buy tickets. So I don't vote. It is back to the middle ages in some ways, like when only the nobles had a vote and supposedly all their subjects were represented by them. 95,000 Barça voters and maybe 10 million fans worldwide (Barça has, to give an example, 1500 fan clubs worldwide). In fact all of Western democracy in its best forms still use the model of proxy democracy with minors, or with immigrants without right to vote, in Canada I think prisoners can't vote either unless they changed that (a scandal in my opinion); you hope or even lobby for someone else to vote for you. Thank the Supreme Court for changing it. http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2002/10/31/inmate_votes021031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Thank the Supreme Court for changing it. http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2002/10/31/inmate_votes021031 Actually the scandal for me was that a prisoner could not vote. Just because you have been condemned for a crime you should not lose your basic right as a citizen to express your opinion. The Supreme Court was right IMO. I expressed my dislike for this circumstance over 20 years ago and am pleased that it has been corrected. Just to set my opinion straight. I understand that at a place like Kingston you could not let all vote in Kingston, perhaps you have to ensure they vote in a riding from where they are from, regardless of current "residence", or else they'd swing a vote one way or the other, potentially. But this is way off topic. I personally hope Bassat wins and we can build up the team where we really need to, starting with a coach who decides on players that are reasonably priced and who we can get our money's worth from. We need a big hitting striker, a central defender for when de Boer and Andersson retire. And maybe a good hardworking midfielder to pick up from where Cocu will leave off, also close to career's end. We also need to think about replacing Luis Enrique soon, a midfielder with attacking capacity. So no Beckham, please, too expensive, and not the kind of player who having broken our bank will give us trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Jeffrey, don't you think they would pay off Beckham's transfer fee within a month with Barça jersey sales in Asia? Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow Jeffrey, don't you think they would pay off Beckham's transfer fee within a month with Barça jersey sales in Asia? Actually no. I read somewhere that after Zidane signed with Madrid they sold something like a few hundred thousand shirts, and after retail cut, ZZ's cut and all that, the team made something like 6 million Euros. A good bit of money, but not enough. Too bad I don't have the right figures, but I read this recently on a Becks story. The problem is that the only real way to make money is not merchandising, though it is on the rise it is a slow and actually costly proposition, and depends on luck and results. You certainly cannot make too much off tv which is falling. The only way is by buying future greats at a good price and selling them for a profit. Barça ended up making a hell of a lot for Figo, we bought him from Sporting Lisbon, he rose as a player, Madrid paid what they did. We wasted it, to be sure, the former president's fault. Another way of making serious money is by selling off hot players from your youth system and making a few million on them. Look at Casillas at Madrid, from the youth system, didn't cost them a thing. They could probably get, say, 7-8 million for him. Owen would be another example, Liverpool could make a ton off him. It all depends on which early 20 year olds you want to sell. In my opinion the only way a player really makes himself worth a big transfer is if his presence help you win leagues and cups, and then you consider that the investment paid off, maybe not in hard financial terms, but in sporting terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow Jeffrey, don't you think they would pay off Beckham's transfer fee within a month with Barça jersey sales in Asia? Actually no. I read somewhere that after Zidane signed with Madrid they sold something like a few hundred thousand shirts, and after retail cut, ZZ's cut and all that, the team made something like 6 million Euros. A good bit of money, but not enough. Too bad I don't have the right figures, but I read this recently on a Becks story. The problem is that the only real way to make money is not merchandising, though it is on the rise it is a slow and actually costly proposition, and depends on luck and results. You certainly cannot make too much off tv which is falling. The only way is by buying future greats at a good price and selling them for a profit. Barça ended up making a hell of a lot for Figo, we bought him from Sporting Lisbon, he rose as a player, Madrid paid what they did. We wasted it, to be sure, the former president's fault. Another way of making serious money is by selling off hot players from your youth system and making a few million on them. Look at Casillas at Madrid, from the youth system, didn't cost them a thing. They could probably get, say, 7-8 million for him. Owen would be another example, Liverpool could make a ton off him. It all depends on which early 20 year olds you want to sell. In my opinion the only way a player really makes himself worth a big transfer is if his presence help you win leagues and cups, and then you consider that the investment paid off, maybe not in hard financial terms, but in sporting terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Well, it seems as though Real are playing it the way they have to. You'll remember that during Real's Presidential election, Perez had acquired a commitment from Figo himself. Barca have played this all wrong, only securing a deal from the Club. Now Real are in a perfect position. Barca is in deep enough so that should Real snatch Becks, they make their hated rival look bad (again). Also, they are now apparently speaking with Golden Balls directly, following their tried and proven Figo strategy. If I were a gambling man, I'd say Real will get their man. Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Mimglow Well, it seems as though Real are playing it the way they have to. You'll remember that during Real's Presidential election, Perez had acquired a commitment from Figo himself. Barca have played this all wrong, only securing a deal from the Club. Now Real are in a perfect position. Barca is in deep enough so that should Real snatch Becks, they make their hated rival look bad (again). Also, they are now apparently speaking with Golden Balls directly, following their tried and proven Figo strategy. If I were a gambling man, I'd say Real will get their man. To be sure it is not sure Beckham will go to Barça, though Robson has come out on Friday encouraging him to do so, lauding the club. Laporta is about one point above Bassat in the latest polls before Sunday's elections (results should come in about 10 PM Sunday). As for him going to Real Madrid, well the first thing you'd have to notice is that he plays in the same spot as Figo. Takes the same kind of free kicks, is equally mediocre defending. Like Figo he is not fast, he is not as good a dribbler and probably only just as good a crosser. In any case if Becks goes to Madrid Figo will likely be sold, I can't see one or the other on the bench. Obviously with Madrid still in the league title race they can't be embroiled in such dealings until it is decided (perhaps tomorrow, probably next weekend). I think even Beckham will wait on that too, so I'd say that no deal will be seen until late June. In any case if they win the league, perhaps they'll feel they don't need a big media signing as a balsalm for the pain, while if they lose it the coach del Bosque could go, and Beckham would come in as their hope for a better season next year (though the Spanish Supercup and the Intercontinental is not bad, with the squad they have they certainly expected more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Joan Laporta pulls it out. IIRC, did he not also promise to bring in Gus Hiddick (I am sure I mussed up the spelling) as coach as well as Beckham? In a World full of caterpillars it takes balls to be a butterfly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 News from Barcelona: I Was Wrong Well I have to admit that I never thought he'd pull it off, but obviously the strength of the Beckham news on the Man U site and the weakness of the Bassat campaign meant it all went his way. He out-polled all the other candidates combined, over 50% among 6 of them. In other good news for Barça we won in Valencia and if Bilbao cannot win at Bernabeu and take the league away from Madrid next weekend, all we need is a win at home vs. Celta (classified for the Champions now) to make UEFA. Sounds like little, but since Barça has never missed a European campaign, only club with this distinction since the late 50s, it means a lot here. It is possible that Hiddink is the coach, would make sense as Cruyff supported Laporta and it seems Hiddink and Cruyff see eye to eye. I suppose having a young, politically liberal president will be positive for Barça in the next few years, though I still don't trust his program like I did Bassat's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimglow Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. News from Barcelona: I Was Wrong Well, Jeffrey, yes you were and no you weren't. Here is the latest, much as I thought would happen... http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=269967&cc=5901 http://foxsportsworld.lycos.com/content/view?contentId=1473492 Mimglow, Ottawa _________________________ Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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