amacpher Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Inter Milan illustrates the crapness of the serie "A" at the moment. Only dropped 6 points all season, yet is their team really any better than the 4th-best teams in England and Spain? Of course not... Ah hem... thank you very much ladies and germs! No need to applaud, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Well having 3 teams in the next round of the champions league doesnt really make you crappy! I think not winning a world cup or even making a final in over 40 years and claiming to be the best makes your crappy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Well having 3 teams in the next round of the champions league doesnt really make you crappy! I think not winning a world cup or even making a final in over 40 years and claiming to be the best makes your crappy! In discussing the strength (or lack therof) of Serie "A" in 2006/7, what does the NT winning the World Cup have to do with anything? *waits for some 4th-generation Roman to post UEFA Cup statistics from the 1990's* [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Well having 3 teams in the next round of the champions league doesnt really make you crappy! I think not winning a world cup or even making a final in over 40 years and claiming to be the best makes your crappy! In discussing the strength (or lack therof) of Serie "A" in 2006/7, what does the NT winning the World Cup have to do with anything? *waits for some 4th-generation Roman to post UEFA Cup statistics from the 1990's* [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher In discussing the strength (or lack therof) of Serie "A" in 2006/7, what does the NT winning the World Cup have to do with anything? *waits for some 4th-generation Roman to post UEFA Cup statistics from the 1990's* [] Like I said having 3 teams in the second round of the CL makes you weak?? all team qualified. English and Spanish teams are good not because of their domestic players but because of their foreigners hence the reason SPAIN and ENGLAND both choke at every International Level. The 3 leagues are the best in the world and it usually rotates. When Milan won the CL final there were 3 Italian teams in the last 4. This year is looks to be the EPL's league THAT doesnt mean the serie A is CRAPPY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher In discussing the strength (or lack therof) of Serie "A" in 2006/7, what does the NT winning the World Cup have to do with anything? *waits for some 4th-generation Roman to post UEFA Cup statistics from the 1990's* [] And I am actually a 1st Generation and speak Italian. I am guessing your an 8th generation Scot? People that like to attach other peoples cultures means that their own culture is nothing to brag about or they are just plain pathetic. As for Soccer, Unless your Brazlian you have nothing to say angainst Italian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Like I said having 3 teams in the second round of the CL makes you weak?? all team qualified. English and Spanish teams are good not because of their domestic players but because of their foreigners hence the reason SPAIN and ENGLAND both choke at every International Level. Boring, corrupt footy played in front of half-empty stadia that are falling apart..... There are so many more reasons why Serie "A" is crap at the moment besdies the # of clubs they'll send to the quarterfinals of CL and UEFA Cup (at most 1). The fact that they had 5 or 6 teams alive in the second-round of CL and UEFA Cup is more of a testament to the quality of the league in past seasons. Would Milan still be in the CL this season if not for them going deep into Europe in past years (where they cheated, lets not forget), and thereby grabbing a top-seed in the UEFA draws? Unlikely based on their form. quote:The 3 leagues are the best in the world and it usually rotates. I can see Milan and Juve rising and being able to compete with Europe's elite someday again. But do you really think Italy's UEFA Cup-calibre clubs are ever gonna be able to compete with England's or Spain's? Or even Germany's or France's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Milan NEVER cheated in the UEFA if anything they were cheated out of one final. Your point for saying Serie was crap was based on football not empty stadiums, and every league has its problems. The Italian league is not so heavily dependent on foreign players like Spain and England as is evident in the world cup. SO the League itself is not a Crappy League. Italy was one of the Only teams in the World cup that had all of its players playing in there own domestic league and they did pretty well. So basically the winning team of the world cup ALL came from the serie A and no where else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Boring, corrupt footy played in front of half-empty stadia that are falling apart..... There are so many more reasons why Serie "A" is crap at the moment besdies the # of clubs they'll send to the quarterfinals of CL and UEFA Cup (at most 1). The fact that they had 5 or 6 teams alive in the second-round of CL and UEFA Cup is more of a testament to the quality of the league in past seasons. Would Milan still be in the CL this season if not for them going deep into Europe in past years (where they cheated, lets not forget), and thereby grabbing a top-seed in the UEFA draws? Unlikely based on their form. I can see Milan and Juve rising and being able to compete with Europe's elite someday again. But do you really think Italy's UEFA Cup-calibre clubs are ever gonna be able to compete with England's or Spain's? Or even Germany's or France's? Italian teams are competing with the other clubs, I am not saying they are the best and will win, but they are certainly not crap by any means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Milan NEVER cheated in the UEFA if anything they were cheated out of one final. hmm... and which final would that be? quote:Your point for saying Serie was crap was based on football not empty stadiums, and every league has its problems. Nope. I said Inter Milan's dominance of Serie "A" provides an example of how crap Serie "A" as a whole is. And it does. Come on! Even a team like Chelsea or the 2006 Barcelona (both of whom are better on paper than the current Inter) would drop alot more than 6 points in a season... unless everyone they were playing were very very ordinary. quote: The Italian league is not so heavily dependent on foreign players like Spain and England That's true! And England's Conference south division is not as reliant on foreigners as the EPL. The reason is left to you as an excercise. quote: SO the League itself is not a Crappy League. Italy was one of the Only teams in the World cup that had all of its players playing in there own domestic league and they did pretty well. So basically the winning team of the world cup ALL came from the serie A and no where else You do realize that none of that translates to a strong domestic league, yeah? Alot of the Greeks on Greece's 2004 Euro winning team played in Greece. And the few that didn't wouldn't have made the Greek league a major player even if they had been playing club football in their homeland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher hmm... and which final would that be? In the interview, Eydelie, who was found guilty of bribery in the 1993 Valenciennes-OM match-fixing scandal, accused Tapie of cheating and said he and several of his team mates had received injections before the 1993 Champions League final against AC Milan. Marseille beat Milan 1-0 to become the first French club to lift Europe's top club trophy. Nope. I said Inter Milan's dominance of Serie "A" provides an example of how crap Serie "A" as a whole is. Crap is to extreme, I agree its not as strong without juve and a lesser AC Milan but to Say they are crap is going to far And it does. Come on! Even a team like Chelsea or the 2006 Barcelona (both of whom are better on paper than the current Inter) would drop alot more than 6 points in a season... unless everyone they were playing were very very ordinary. That's true! And England's Conference south division is not as reliant on foreigners as the EPL. The reason is left to you as an excercise. You do realize that none of that translates to a strong domestic league, yeah? Alot of the Greeks on Greece's 2004 Euro winning team played in Greece. And the few that didn't wouldn't have made the Greek league a major player even if they had been playing club football in their homeland. Some of the greek players were playing in Italy at the time as well as Germany and England. and TO my knowledge the best and most impressive players were the ones that DIDNT play in the Greek League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Some of the greek players were playing in Italy at the time as well as Germany and England. and TO my knowledge the best and most impressive players were the ones that DIDNT play in the Greek League. 15 out of 23 Greece players were playing in the Greek league, including the tournament's best player, Theo Zagorakis. Seitaridis and Delles were the others voted on the Best XI Euro 2004 team. So it's simply not true that Greece's best and most impressive players were the ones who played outside the Greek league. And if those 8 non Greece-based players had been playing in the Greek league, would that make the league so great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Boring, corrupt footy played in front of half-empty stadia that are falling apart..... There are so many more reasons why Serie "A" is crap at the moment besdies the # of clubs they'll send to the quarterfinals of CL and UEFA Cup (at most 1). Wrong again 2 are into the next round, the second most to England(which might I add Have maybe 8 englishmen combined out of the 60 player rosters. The fact that they had 5 or 6 teams alive in the second-round of CL and UEFA Cup is more of a testament to the quality of the league in past seasons. Would Milan still be in the CL this season if not for them going deep into Europe in past years (where they cheated, lets not forget), and thereby grabbing a top-seed in the UEFA draws? Unlikely based on their form. I can see Milan and Juve rising and being able to compete with Europe's elite someday again. But do you really think Italy's UEFA Cup-calibre clubs are ever gonna be able to compete with England's or Spain's? Or even Germany's or France's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Wrong again 2 are into the next round, the second most to England(which might I add Have maybe 8 englishmen combined out of the 60 player rosters. You know Chivu, Mancini and Kaka are not Italian, yeah? Those players were the difference in those 2 matches. And I didn't count on the ref turning-down a clear penalty for Celtic. Anyway, nice sportsmanship displayed by Inter on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher You know Chivu, Mancini and Kaka are not Italian, yeah? Those players were the difference in those 2 matches. And I didn't count on the ref turning-down a clear penalty for Celtic. Anyway, nice sportsmanship displayed by Inter on Tuesday. Kaka is as much Italian as Owen Hargraves is English. Since Kaka just got his Italian citzenship because of his grandparents and wont count as an international player. I think Totti is the go to man for Roma, Pippo had a penatly call as well. As for Inter, Yes taht was bad but look who threw the first punch and then ran away like a coward after. Bottom line Italy produced 2 teams into the final 8 AND POWERHOUSE spain only produced one. England prodcuced 3 but we all know why. I bet there are almost as many Italians on Milan alone vs all 3 English teams combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher You know Chivu, Mancini and Kaka are not Italian, yeah? Those players were the difference in those 2 matches. And I didn't count on the ref turning-down a clear penalty for Celtic. Anyway, nice sportsmanship displayed by Inter on Tuesday. Big deal. Inter had a clear hand ball in the box not called either. That goal would have put them through. Even though Inter are sore losers, at least they aren't cowards. But you probably idolize a ***** like Navarro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia Kaka is as much Italian as Owen Hargraves is English. In other words, not at all. quote: Bottom line Italy produced 2 teams into the final 8 AND POWERHOUSE spain only produced one. England prodcuced 3 but we all know why. I bet there are almost as many Italians on Milan alone vs all 3 English teams combined Spain has 5 teams in Europe, Italy has 2. England also 5. And you go on about Totti being the "main guy" at Roma. Who do you think are the main guys for those 3 English teams still in champions league? LIVERPOOL: Gerrard and Carragher are by a mile the best players on the club. The rest of the team could easily be replaced with other complementary players. MAN UNITED: Ronaldo is their best player (like Kaka is for Milan), but after him the team's backbone is pretty much all English. CHELSEA: Lampard and Terry are the leaders of this team during what is the club's best period in their history. Yes Drogba is great this season, as was Robben 2 years ago. But there have really only been 2 constants on this team for these 4 great seasons they've had. (if anybody else comes close it's Joe Cole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher In other words, not at all. Spain has 5 teams in Europe, Italy has 2. England also 5. And you go on about Totti being the "main guy" at Roma. Who do you think are the main guys for those 3 English teams still in champions league? LIVERPOOL: Gerrard and Carragher are by a mile the best players on the club. The rest of the team could easily be replaced with other complementary players. MAN UNITED: Ronaldo is their best player (like Kaka is for Milan), but after him the team's backbone is pretty much all English. CHELSEA: Lampard and Terry are the leaders of this team during what is the club's best period in their history. Yes Drogba is great this season, as was Robben 2 years ago. But there have really only been 2 constants on this team for these 4 great seasons they've had. (if anybody else comes close it's Joe Cole). WOW all of these great "so called backbone" English players on these top teams yet they cant win anything in the international level in Europe. Maybe you should research the fact that Rooney never scored a goal in the CL or Euro or World cup. Why dont you also mention that the coache of all 3 English teams left ARE NOT even English Totti is the leading scorer in the serie A and produces well. Kaka is a strong player yes, but with the help of pirlo, rino, nesta, maldini, even pippo and gilardino score goals. I probably just named more players on that one team then all 3 English CL combined. you say man u backbone is all english , HAHA tell me lke who I am so interested to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia WOW all of these great "so called backbone" English players on these top teams yet they cant win anything in the international level in Europe. Maybe you should research the fact that Rooney never scored a goal in the CL or Euro or World cup. Rooney was one of the best players in Eur 2004. Voted best forward, iirc. He scored something like 5 goals in 3 games... He also scored a hat-trick in his first ever CL game. Not bad since he's not even a striker. And, yes, England haven't played well as a team. HAd some poor coaching too lately. But on an individual bases, only Brasil matches them. quote: Why dont you also mention that the coache of all 3 English teams left ARE NOT even English Same reason I didn't mention that Capello has proven to be crap when his matches aren't fixed in his favour and will likely be unemployed this time next week. What relevance is it to the discussion on strength of respective domestic leagues?? quote: Totti is the leading scorer in the serie A and produces well. Kaka is a strong player yes, but with the help of pirlo, rino, nesta, maldini, even pippo and gilardino score goals. I probably just named more players on that one team then all 3 English CL combined. I guess I'm more about quality than quantity. I bet Ascoli have alot of Italian players too, yeah? quote: you say man u backbone is all english , HAHA tell me lke who I am so interested to know You know who they are: Rooney, Rio, Carrick, Scholes, Neville, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 hahaha, England's players 2nd only to Brazil's. Now that is the funniest thing I've heard in weeks. England performs like sh.it in tourneys for a reason. Because they are over-rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack hahaha, England's players 2nd only to Brazil's. Now that is the funniest thing I've heard in weeks. England performs like sh.it in tourneys for a reason. Because they are over-rated. I'm talking on a individual (player-by-player) level. And I didn't say they are second to Brasil. I said equal. Nobody is better at the moment than England. [8)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Huh? That's still the crazyiest thing I've heard in weeks. England is reknown for its poor player development of its own nationals, to take the stand that you are taking boggles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Guys, this is a really dumb argument, have to say it. I can't for the life of me find anything edifying in any of it. There are cycles in Europe, it is true, but if you look at the last 10 or 15 years of European soccer you will find that a few countries are always there, and those are the nations that have the strongest, most monied leagues. Arguing on the basis of this year or last year is ridiculous, as is trying to get something out of who are the key players on what team. What cannot be denied is that Italian teams have done very well over this time framework often with key Italian players, as is the case with England. Spain has probably the best international (foreign) players, or the most flamboyant, so the stars are usually not the nationals. That said, Raul is the leading scorer in the history of the Champions League and has won three European Cups, he is in decline but noone would deny he was the key player at Real Madrid over those years in spite of great internationals like R. Carlos in his day or Zidane. So you could argue that the foreigners in Spain affect the national team results, that would be fair. Perhaps it also affects England too, but England was not too successful before the Bosman rule anyways. Italy is the only national team to get international results before and after the Bosman rule, which says a lot about their players, how they play together, and the competitive edge the get with their club teams, which are usually Italian. That said, I think one of the three English teams will win Champions this year, as I think a Spanish team will win UEFA. In fact I think Sevilla will repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Huh? That's still the crazyiest thing I've heard in weeks. England is reknown for its poor player development of its own nationals, Maybe 10+ years ago, but the current crop of 17 to 30 years-olds is quite impressive... except when it comes to penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza_Italia Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher Maybe 10+ years ago, but the current crop of 17 to 30 years-olds is quite impressive... except when it comes to penalties. England are level with Brazil player to player? Again players that are so good GET international results. ITALY are by far the best team in Europe League + Country, Spain great league lousy international, England Great League Lousy Internation Italy slightly not as good as they used to but International are the world champs for the 4th time. That just goes to show how dependent The epl and la liga have become on its foreign players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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