Toronto FC Proposed Academy Teams

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Okay, some of you have brought up good points.

I could temper my rant to that Junior or U-21 players could sign on with a pro run Academy. But I'm still against Midget or U-18 players being owned and maybe sold by pro run Academies.

I used minor soccer instead of youth soccer because that's what we call U-18/Midget and under soccer in this neck o' da woods. Riverview Minor Soccer Association is who I make the cheques out to for my grand-kids at registration time.

I am only afraid that 15-16 year olds will be taken advantage of in an Academy system. I firmly believe that only players in Junior/U-21 (with the lack of U-21 or Junior leagues..see I got my mistake []..) but Midget/U-18 shouldn't be in Academies especially if they have to leave homes 100's of miles away.

My concern is for the kids and the possibility that parents will pay large sums and kids will have un-do expectations, when profit for the Academy is the main concern. Alarm bells went off when I read some of the early posts. I would like to see a program of excellence being instituted by our Associations from the top down. Before we look to private business to do it for us.

Programs of excellence are exactly what the District Development Centres are all about. These are run by provincial associations on behalf of the CSA. In BC the province is divided into four regions, each with its own BCSA run DDC. I am sure the same program exists in other provinces.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Just answer me one question, please?

For 10 or 15 years Soccer NB and CSA have bragged that soccer registration is greater than Hockey NB and Hockey Canada.

What is Soccer NB and CSA doing with the dues?

I belong to both Soccer NB and Hockey NB. With less registration Hockey NB has given me more referring cetificates and classes through NBHOA (NB Hockey Officials Ass'n) and 3 times the coaching classes and certificates.

With all these big #'s what is Soccer NB and CSA doing? I have to beg to see what Soccer NB and CSA is providing where as I have to turn down Hockey NB and Hockey Canada because of time constraints,

Argh I really don't know and I assume that the Provincial Association publishes a yearly report. I assume that any member is entitled to ask questions about it's contents and could zero in on this player fee distribution.

As i have said so many times it is all about our kids,so if the distribution on a percentage basis as far as these programs are concerned are incorect or make no sense or otherwise, I would raise the pertinent questions and would push for the correct answer. If you don't agree well here we go,raise the stink and go after flesh.I would big time.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Just answer me one question, please?

For 10 or 15 years Soccer NB and CSA have bragged that soccer registration is greater than Hockey NB and Hockey Canada.

What is Soccer NB and CSA doing with the dues?

I belong to both Soccer NB and Hockey NB. With less registration Hockey NB has given me more referring cetificates and classes through NBHOA (NB Hockey Officials Ass'n) and 3 times the coaching classes and certificates.

With all these big #'s what is Soccer NB and CSA doing? I have to beg to see what Soccer NB and CSA is providing where as I have to turn down Hockey NB and Hockey Canada because of time constraints,

Argh I really don't know and I assume that the Provincial Association publishes a yearly report. I assume that any member is entitled to ask questions about it's contents and could zero in on this player fee distribution.

As i have said so many times it is all about our kids,so if the distribution on a percentage basis as far as these programs are concerned are incorect or make no sense or otherwise, I would raise the pertinent questions and would push for the correct answer. If you don't agree well here we go,raise the stink and go after flesh.I would big time.

[Canuck Oranje]

While I agree with you that Ajax continues to develop players in its sophisticated youth system, it has also turned to finding players in their later teens to supplement their internal system. Ibrahimovic, Mido and Chivu come to mind. Also, I was thinking that during the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s the Ajax system was the primary source of elite Dutch talent at the highest level. It seemed that there was always an Ajax product amongst the top-20 european players during those years. Cruyff, Rijkard, Van Basten, Davids, and Bergkamp are names that come to mind. Currently, I don´t see an Ajax product under the age of 30 that would rank at that level. Also, even Van Persie,Robben, Kuijt, and Van Nistelrooy are not Ajax products. Vander Vaart is and Sneijder too but it appears to me that Ajax is not as dominant as they once were on the youth development scene in Holland. I also question whether the Ajax youth system is all that superior today to other top systems around the world like Sao Paulo FC, Santos in the Sao Paulo area, or Gremio and Internacional in Porto Alegre. How much of Ajax´s recent success has been built on the broader KNVB system and the fact that more than 80% of the Netherlands population is within one hours drive?

Second, to say that Canadian hockey would be better off if the Toronto Maple Leafs had a youth development system is to discount the quality of talent being produced by the current youth system in Canada. Junior teams like the Kitchener Rangers, Ottawa 67´s and the Peterborough Petes have done an excellent job at finishing young talent for the NHL and Canadian hockey.

My main point is that it is good that Toronto FC will have a junior team. I doubt that many players below the age of 18 would come from more than one hour´s drive (maybe two) from Toronto. It also means that an overall Canadian youth development system needs to consider Canadian conditions and Canadian geography and will still need to rely on regional development systems to the level of success to make a significant impact on the world stage.

quote:Originally posted by john tv

I have always had great reservations about our youth development systems.When we have a gem,ie Jonathan and Owen they go abroad and now we see the results of pro clubs taken over were we as youth clubs have failed.Ajax as well as Feyenoord as any other pro club in Europe still have a highly sophistgated youth system as well as many other sports.In fact Jonathan was the captain of the Feyenoord youth team that won the championship in Holland in 2005.These youth teams were all the who is who in Holland.There is a defenite and great difference between the school system and the club system.Even after that Bosman ruling the clubs still continued to develop their own players as well.

The school system in the US is also totally different from our system,with these scolarships being the big one.I would love to see the Maple Leafs have a club system simular to Ajax as an example. They certainly would put a lot back into hockey and will with their rescources also be able to provide the very best in coaching etc.

It all goes back when for some reason the apprentice system as is well known in Europe never was accepted as a vital development of companies and sport clubs as well.

Don't get me wrong guys I am not knocking Canada,just again wondering why or why not?

[john tv]

I believe that Ajax had a jump on all the other teams and their success was obvious.All major clubs in Holland as well as Europe have more or less adopted that system and the results are showing and with it the advantage Ajax had in the earlier years.The clubs are all forced to not only have a youth system but also the very best they can provide,if they don't the results will show on the field.

It is very very obvious to me watching soccer today how technically it is so much better than the olden days.This is no fluke but the direct result of the club systems.

Without having direct access to the information I venture to say that every European player is the product of an advanced youth system.

We have so many of our players already abroad just review our listings and it is all the same story,all products of the youth club system.Canada is very lucky that we can have our players be part of the highly technical programs and reap the benefits.

I don't really feel that these US scolarships can even get close to this advanced system of training and sometime some decisions will have to be made,that system or the European/World way.

[argh1]

My last word on the subject....promise.

I want some protection that an academy will not have 14 of the best players and 20 whose parents pay just because they can pay. The number of players who make "it" compared to those who don't ..well we all know... in "any" sport.

It's an icy hill when we decide on youth development. Let's put the kids first and not the club/private business.

That's it that's all...that's my concern

[john tv]

The selection process with Ajax is very strict and in fact when Johan Cruyff played with the juniors this process was not in place and the story is that he may not have made this selected group since he was only right footed.I asked Johan about that and he told me that he spent hours kicking the ball against the wall and designed a variety of moves as well to get both feet going. He did say that this was the big difference ,the against the wall ball training he believed made him a great soccer player.

Today all kids that apply to play in the juniors have to pass a lot of qualifications and they are quite high standards as well.

[Canuck Oranje]

Not all the top soccer programs around the world began with linkages to Professional teams.

Pao de Acucar Esporte Club is one very interesting example here in Brazil that could be developed in Canada. Soccer people from Ajax, Feyenoord, and PSV would be very aware of this club. In fact, Pao de Acucar won a high profile Dutch U-17 tournament that included Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Valencia, Fenerbache (Turkey), Anderlecht, and the Lithuanian U-17 national team among others.

Pao de Acucar Esport Club does not have a professional system and its youth systems ends at U-17. In 2006, it decided that it would sign an agreement with a traditional but sagging professional club in Sao Paulo called Club Atletico Juventus that would allow Pao de Acucar youth players move into the CA Juventus system at the U-20 level.

It will be interesting to see how CA Juventus performs in the Copa Sao Paulo de Juniores this month. Yesterday, they destroyed their first opponent 6-1 in one of the most lob-sided victories of the day (many of those players played with Pao de Acucar in the Netherlands last year). Next Sunday they face Gremio so it will be interesting if a professional club can use the system of a non-professional club that exists really as a benevolent activity of a billionaire.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Not all the top soccer programs around the world began with linkages to Professional teams.

Pao de Acucar Esporte Club is one very interesting example here in Brazil that could be developed in Canada. Soccer people from Ajax, Feyenoord, and PSV would be very aware of this club. In fact, Pao de Acucar won a high profile Dutch U-17 tournament that included Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Valencia, Fenerbache (Turkey), Anderlecht, and the Lithuanian U-17 national team among others.

Pao de Acucar Esport Club does not have a professional system and its youth systems ends at U-17. In 2006, it decided that it would sign an agreement with a traditional but sagging professional club in Sao Paulo called Club Atletico Juventus that would allow Pao de Acucar youth players move into the CA Juventus system at the U-20 level.

It will be interesting to see how CA Juventus performs in the Copa Sao Paulo de Juniores this month. Yesterday, they destroyed their first opponent 6-1 in one of the most lob-sided victories of the day (many of those players played with Pao de Acucar in the Netherlands last year). Next Sunday they face Gremio so it will be interesting if a professional club can use the system of a non-professional club that exists really as a benevolent activity of a billionaire.

This is true, a top level club in Spain that only goes to U-17 is Damm, run by the beer company of the same name (makers of Estrella Damm). Based near where the old brewery was in Barcelona. They just pour their money into training kids. Are in the top flight and right now in second of their division of the six such regional divisions at the highest level in Spain, called "juvenil" Spain (u-17). Meaning they would play the Cup if they stay in the spot.

When players leave they are usually picked up by other clubs, as it is a transitional moment for most players and there is a lot of movement anyways. Sergio García the Zaragoza striker came out of there, as did Curro Torres who won the league twice with Valencia. Dani Garcia former Barça and Madrid and last I heard at Olympiakos also was from there, as was Toni Velamazan, who went into the Barça system then was at Espanyol til last season, not sure where this year.

[Canuck Oranje]

I should add that The soccer academy program at Pao de Acucar ES was put together to give impoverished youth around Brazil an opportunity to succeed. It´s main training centre is probably better equipped than most professional clubs (with the exception of the maybe the very biggest).

A runner from Pao de Acucar ES also won 2006´s NY Marathon so it doesn´t only succeed in training soccer players.