Toronto FC Proposed Academy Teams

[SoccMan]

The MLS has mandated that each of it's teams create a youth system or academy teams, whatever you want to call them, just like in Europe. This is a great idea, long overdue. Furthermore, the MLS has stated that players developed in each teams youth system will be the property of the respected clubs. Which means, that once a player is deemed ready to make the jump to the senior team he can go directly to the senior team, without having to go into the main draft, another inovation that is long overdue in North American soccer. What this will also do is allow MLS teams the possibility if they have a gem on their hands, to one day sell players to European clubs that they have developed in their academies, something that South American countries have been doing for years. However, I'm hoping that youth players who make a Toronto FC academy teams are not asked to pay a fee to play on one of their teams. Players should not be charged to play on a pro teams youth team, because if that is the case it will lose all credibility in many peoples eyes. It should be a priviledge based on talent and not on the ability of ones family to pay for their kid to play. I'm pretty certain Arsenal does not charge it's academy players to pay to play on their youth teams.

[L.T.]

There is WAY more incentive for a European club to invest in its academies than in North America.

For bigger clubs, an academy graduate means one less player you have to pay a huge transfer fee for - For smaller clubs, it means a player you can sell to keep afloat for a few more years.

Over here, the economic benefits are just not there (yet).

[Guest Jeffery S.]

At the lower levels, and I am not sure how low, but say around under 10, kids at Barça have to pay. Let's say that they pay to be club members and pay to play for the team, and there are even some other expenses involved. It is not much though. I am pretty sure about this anyways, unless they have recently changed things.

One of the reasons they do this is to be on par with the rest of the clubs at that level, which are all small local teams except for Espanyol (who actually have a better youth system recently). What i mean is that since Barça and Espanyol tend to poach young talents from their modest rivals in the city, it would be even more unfair if they could do it by offering free football while the others kept on charging.

After this age, moving into pre-teens, they don't charge, but they also start looking for kids from the rest of Catalonia, Spain and the world. They can do it as they put them up in the Masia, an old farmhouse preserved in the shadow of Camp Nou, where they live in residence with a lot of support and controls. This is where Iniesta arrived at age 11 from a small town near Albacete, or Messi I think at 12 from Argentina, with his parents in that case. Having a warm, friendly enviroment to invite kids to is a big plus and, at the top level, is what makes parents decide for one club over another.

If you want to build a strong youth academy and have kids from all over Southern Ontario, for a start, you have to think of something like this, a residential home that could house a dozen kids, or some huge mansion for two dozen, so that they did not have to commute long distances and could develop within the club system, go to school nearby, have tutors looking after their personal needs.

I doubt FC Toronto would go so far, at least not at first. But it is a solid idea, and could be okay for a certain age group, like say from 14-15 up, when kids can handle being away from home. When do US kids start spending long periods at Brabenton, from what age up?

Then, yes, you are developing talent and it would seem, if MLS goes the whole way, this talent would test itself vs. the youth sides of other MLS or USL teams, making your Super-Y as competitive as possible. Since kids at this age definitely need to compete as hard as possible against tough sides, it is the only way to develop.

[argh1]

RANT ALERT!

Seeing as this is Canada, I'd be in more in favour of soccer following traditional Canadian paths for youth development.

Community based like hockey and baseball. With professional teams not being allowed to own players under the age of majority.

Players should advance through the atom to midget ranks being tied to their AAA teams through geography. Junior leagues then draft the midget players to keep the leagues competitive. Pros then draft players from the Junior leagues. Tried and true method that we accept for our players.

What we need are provincial AAA Junior, Midget, Bantam and Pee-Wee leagues that each player that enters minor soccer can aspire too that are community based and supported by local minor soccer associations.

Hockey Canada has forbidden pro teams to have much involvement in youth hockey since 1969. The year Major Junior and tier 2 Junior was introduced. Teams like Verdun Jr Maple Leafs and Halifax Jr Canadiens had to change their names. Kitchener Rangers had to get permission to use the name. Yes some teams ceased to exist. But 38 years down the road, hasn't player development improved a heck of a lot?

Stopping the raiding of players from community to community and recently adding more geographic rules for a players movement.

The academy system only in my opinion will limit player development as only those that can pay will advance.

We should be putting more pressure on our minor soccer associations to develop AAA, AA, and Developmental Junior through Pee-Wee provincial leagues that our youth can work towards. Personally the community based team approach rather than the academy approach is what has worked in this country and I can't see why we'd want to abandon it.

EDIT:

I just can't see how we can grow soccer without local community involvement and support? Leaving player development up to a small number of academies. More importantly....why do we have too?

END OF RANT

REALLY

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I agree that if kids can develop locally that is the best option. Of course you have quality in local hockey pretty well across the country, you can get good coaching in Maple Ridge and in Moncton and in Thunder Bay. And you are in a competitive structure.

I am not sure that we have the same structure in soccer. If we look at the Super-Y basically we have a few spots that produce teams that can compete at a North American level, namely Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, then Toronto and Montreal though I don't recall too many from the latter in Super-Y finals. So it is a system of academies usually tied to club structures, though of course they are not always pro clubs.

The other reason the hockey model does not work is that in soccer young talents are bought and sold. Something they want to introduce more seriously in MLS. Meaning you develop a value, and if you can you sell that value at a certain point, or if not you pay that player a better salary so he does not jump immediately. Which makes the whole effort worthwhile. Which also would happen to strengthen MLS overall, meaning they could hang on to their Will Johnsons and Josh Simpsons, who they had a hand in developing, as they would pay them for their potential and in hope of them contributing on the field or of a future transfer fee that could benefit the club financially.

[Daniel]

Montreal has never had youth teams affiliated with the Impact.

[RJB]

Are these academy's going to spell the end of the superdraft in time?

[argh1]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I agree that if kids can develop locally that is the best option. Of course you have quality in local hockey pretty well across the country, you can get good coaching in Maple Ridge and in Moncton and in Thunder Bay. And you are in a competitive structure.

I am not sure that we have the same structure in soccer. If we look at the Super-Y basically we have a few spots that produce teams that can compete at a North American level, namely Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, then Toronto and Montreal though I don't recall too many from the latter in Super-Y finals. So it is a system of academies usually tied to club structures, though of course they are not always pro clubs.

The other reason the hockey model does not work is that in soccer young talents are bought and sold. Something they want to introduce more seriously in MLS. Meaning you develop a value, and if you can you sell that value at a certain point, or if not you pay that player a better salary so he does not jump immediately. Which makes the whole effort worthwhile. Which also would happen to strengthen MLS overall, meaning they could hang on to their Will Johnsons and Josh Simpsons, who they had a hand in developing, as they would pay them for their potential and in hope of them contributing on the field or of a future transfer fee that could benefit the club financially.

So why do we have local minor soccer associations? If 15 and 16 year olds can be tied to pro team academies? Only so 6 and 8 year olds can have a kick at a ball?

I guess I'm against private enterprise owning players rights at young ages. I just can't see how privately owned acadamies will develop soccer through-out Canada. They'll operate for thier own best interest.

If this academy system is so good, why don't we have 300 Gordie Howe and Jean Belliveau hockey academies and not provincial AAA teams as we do know.

Why don't the local soccer ass'ns work towards developing elite players?

After all the CSA loves to tell us that soccer registration is higher than hockey and baseball. But yet even if I look at my local baseball. The child enters the minor league program at say age 8. By 13 he may have progressed to Pee-Wee provincial AAA then on to Midget and then Junior almost all with in his local baseball minor ass'n. If the kid is good enough chances are he's been offered US college after at the age of 19 or 20. Although with growth of Atlanic University Baseball some get perks that Canadian colleges can offer.

Don't make me do local 3-down football cuz it's about the same.

None of these sports need private enterprise to establish academies. Why does soccer not want to utilize the strengths of local minor ass'ns and why does the CSA sanction academies. Weaking their member ass'ns.

It's easy if you join an academy you are not eligible for CSA events or teams, period. Strengthen the associations that pay the dues?

That's how it's done in other sports in this country.

Why bother having minor soccer ass'ns at all?

[Richard]

I don't think the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms would permit that degree of CSA interference with free enterprise. I can't speak for other provinces but from what I have seen in BC the BCSA and the CSA does a pretty good job of identifying and developing players through the provincial team and district development centre programs. Many of the youngsters in these programs also attend private academies but that's their choice. National team coaches visit the province every quarter to aid in the identification of players for provincial and national development programs. I am sure somebody more familiar with the youth game in BC will correct me if I am wrong.

[Canuck Oranje]

First off, I think if you check you will see that most Junior A hockey teams are privately owned franchises. As far as I am aware, the Kitchener Rangers are privately owned and have a paid staff.

Secondly, the existance of youth teams connected to professional clubs does not necessarily spell the end to amateur and community-based clubs. If Sao Paulo, Brazil is an example, the big four teams here do not have a monopoly over talent. Nor do teams in other cities.

While young talent ready for first team action is purchased by big clubs like Sao Paulo FC, Corinthians, Palmeiras and Santos, their U-20 teams do not have a competitive advantage over other U-20 teams playing locally. Small clubs often defeat the U-20 teams from big clubs in Brazil in the Copa Sao Paulo de Juniores (the biggest junior tournament in Brazil). In fact, a number of small clubs have won the tournament.

At the amateur level in Sao Paulo, athletic club teams from Corinthians, Sao Paulo, and Palmeiras do not stand out from teams without connections to professional clubs like Club Athletico Paulistano and Pao de Acucar. They play in the same leagues. Pao de Acucar is an interesting team because it is an academy owned by Abilio Diniz (Galen Weston´s equivalent in Brazil) and takes its name from his grocery store chain. Pao de Acucar also sponsors athletes in other sports and I think the Brazilian that won the New York Marathon was also sponsored by them.

Finally, Small professional teams in Brazil do not have fully developed professional youth academies. Commitment to a player is two ways and Brazilian teams would be far more concerned about the commitment they make to players than losing a long shot to a big club. Small clubs are only interested in acquiring young players that are capable of making their first team better. Players who play in their professional youth system may not have to pay much but they do not get much more than a place to train and a team to play for. They would not receive much more than their expenses paid (kind of like junior hockey). The example of Sao Bento is interesting because it is a professional club from Sorocaba (outside of Sao Paulo) and its U-20 team plays in Barueri (closer to Sao Paulo and connected to its greater public transit).

With Toronto FC creating a Youth system, it will be curious how many players will come from outside of the GTA. I suspect only at the oldest age group which means that Vancouver Whitecaps and Montreal Impact can still have their youth teams, if it makes sense to have them.

quote:Originally posted by argh1

So why do we have local minor soccer associations? If 15 and 16 year olds can be tied to pro team academies? Only so 6 and 8 year olds can have a kick at a ball?

I guess I'm against private enterprise owning players rights at young ages. I just can't see how privately owned acadamies will develop soccer through-out Canada. They'll operate for thier own best interest.

If this academy system is so good, why don't we have 300 Gordie Howe and Jean Belliveau hockey academies and not provincial AAA teams as we do know.

Why don't the local soccer ass'ns work towards developing elite players?

After all the CSA loves to tell us that soccer registration is higher than hockey and baseball. But yet even if I look at my local baseball. The child enters the minor league program at say age 8. By 13 he may have progressed to Pee-Wee provincial AAA then on to Midget and then Junior almost all with in his local baseball minor ass'n. If the kid is good enough chances are he's been offered US college after at the age of 19 or 20. Although with growth of Atlanic University Baseball some get perks that Canadian colleges can offer.

Don't make me do local 3-down football cuz it's about the same.

None of these sports need private enterprise to establish academies. Why does soccer not want to utilize the strengths of local minor ass'ns and why does the CSA sanction academies. Weaking their member ass'ns.

It's easy if you join an academy you are not eligible for CSA events or teams, period. Strengthen the associations that pay the dues?

That's how it's done in other sports in this country.

Why bother having minor soccer ass'ns at all?

[SoccMan]

Just wanted to clear up a few things in terms of terminology when talking about soccer at the youth level here in Canada. Childrens soccer, anyting below the ages of 19 years old is referred to as youth soccer, not minor soccer. When we say associations in soccer we are talking about governing bodies not clubs or leagues. Associations in soccer are governing bodies that govern individual clubs and govern the leagues these youth clubs representatives teams play in. In Canada we have district associations that are in charge of all clubs that operate within the district associations goegraphical boundary. Above the district associations we have the provincial associations that govern over these district associations, and naturaly above the provincial associations we have our national association , the Canadian Soccer Association that governs over the provincial associations. Furthermore, we have FIFA that governs over the CSA. I actualy believe in terms of the way soccer is organized and administrated in Canada and the world it stands above the other sports here in Canada and worldwide.

[bettermirror]

The rant you went on assumes, argh1, that the TFC academy will be a for-profit set-up. This has neither been confirmed nor denied by the club. I imagine it'll be free for all players as it is in Europe. I doubt Mo would want starlets being kept away because they are expected to pay through to nose just to be a TFC youth player.

Third, a minor hockey set-up will not work in this country. Youth Soccer is a different sport, with different goals.

The provincial and NTC systems to do identify and develop elite players - for the most part. There are loads who fall through the cracks due to cost (for provincial programs - the NTC's are free) and travel required.

What we need is more provincial and NTC training facilities in each province. Have those facilities play each other regularly to expose the best v. the best, and from those various camps select players. These facilities should be FREE - the youth soccer registration fee's province-wide should be sufficient to fund these programs even if only raising the cost per player by $5.

Richard I have a question...can you tell me what positions are paid staff for each provincial team age group? I am not asking names, or what their salaries are, just who is getting paid. Also, is there a different phsyiotherapist for each age group or will the same guy do a number of age groups?

[john tv]

It seems to me that professional soccer teams in Europe and the rest of the world are very much aware of their responsibilty to the fans,their national standings and foremost future of the game.In the past Ajax was considered to be the foreunner in youth develop,emt.The professional staff they had were exposed to the cream of the young crop in soccer in Amsterdam as well as other ciies.The exposure to these pro's has helped both the club system as well as the development of these young players. Ajax was also very aware of their responsibiliteis for the well being of these young players. The developed a school system in which these players not only played for the various Ajax teams but also were required to do well at achool and if they did not the education committee,which had the final say so would decide if theis player was allowed to played based upon their grades.As a other benefit Ajax would also make tutors available for these players.

This also applies to all other pro clubs in Holland as well as Europe as a whole.

This i always found to be so strickingly different between the pro European sports clubs and those in North America.I have never heard of a youth system in any sport.It seems to be a scouting/buyers/selling sports market.

I truly hope that TFC will adopt that youth deveopment system and pass on this pro expertise to the young playres. It also creates over the years a tremndous following. I believe that ajax has around 20 or so youth teams.Multiply this by some fiftie years or so you have a tremendous following as well.

I guess that it would be advisable to review the benefits of the academy and Ajax youth development system and pick the best answers there are.

As i said so many times it is all about the youths.

I suppose that Jonathan Deguzman is a prime example as to what a good youth development system can do for the club and the playeras well.This applies to Robben as well as Van Persie and many many other Dutch stars.

[Richard]

As far as I am aware and I may be wrong, the BCSA currently employs six paid fulltime staff coaches. Each of these coaches has distinct responsibilities such as District Development Centre Program, Grassroots Development, Coaching Development etc. I don't know if these include coaching provincial teams - probably not - but additional provincial team coaches are retained as well. The BCSA routinely advertises the positions and invites applications. Certainly the additional provincial coaching positions are not fulltime paid jobs but may include a nominal honorarium to help defray expenses.

Some people here blithely suggest that the registration fees at the recreational player level across the board could easily be raised to finance elite player development. These folks have clearly never attended a provincial AGM and witnessed the bitterness and acrimony with which any such increase is opposed by clubs. There is a very high level of resentment about recreational players subsidising elite player development and competition at the provincial or national level which is no doubt in large part why many of these programs have to be participant supported to some degree. This is unfortunate as it does inhibit the development of the game.

[Richard]

Forgot the second part of the question. Physio services are contracted out on an as needed basis or filled by volunteers as far as I am aware. I doubt that there is a physio in attendance at all times for all the age levels for these programs.

[Canuck Oranje]

I think we have to be careful about the comparison to Ajax as an example to pursue in Canada. The geographic size of Canada makes the logistics completely different. An area the size of the Greater Toronto Area around Amsterdam would take in a minimum of 80% of the Dutch population. Second, Ajax´s reputation as a youth system was created during the pre-Bosman-ruling era when players were more easily tied to the professional club. The economics of running an academy is different now than 15 years ago. I think you are seeing a trend in Europe towards capturing world-class players later now (at U-20 age) in Europe too.

As for a for-profit academy at TFC, I don´t think anyone should assume that any professional club (European and South American clubs included) would run an academy without there being an opportunity for long term profit. Even professional clubs owned by member-driven athletic/social clubs (Barca and Sao Paulo FC) need to pay the bills because the national association does not pay them.

As for North American professional teams being different, much of that has to do with the organization of sport in the USA. The college and high school systems take responsibility for the development of young athletes. That system has worked well over the years. However, for a relatively new sport like soccer, it may need some additional help.

In Canada, we did have hockey development systems attached to professional clubs up until the 1960s when the draft was implemented. Now, we have a junior system that is able to derive some revenue from player development.

I think it is naive to assume that the hockey system will work for soccer without modification nor do I think that a full European-style youth development system would work in Canada. A Toronto FC youth development system is only a small piece of what needs to be put in place in Canada. It is good that we look elsewhere for ideas but in the end, it will need to be a system that considers the issues unique to Canada.

quote:Originally posted by john tv

It seems to me that professional soccer teams in Europe and the rest of the world are very much aware of their responsibilty to the fans,their national standings and foremost future of the game.In the past Ajax was considered to be the foreunner in youth develop,emt.The professional staff they had were exposed to the cream of the young crop in soccer in Amsterdam as well as other ciies.The exposure to these pro's has helped both the club system as well as the development of these young players. Ajax was also very aware of their responsibiliteis for the well being of these young players. The developed a school system in which these players not only played for the various Ajax teams but also were required to do well at achool and if they did not the education committee,which had the final say so would decide if theis player was allowed to played based upon their grades.As a other benefit Ajax would also make tutors available for these players.

This also applies to all other pro clubs in Holland as well as Europe as a whole.

This i always found to be so strickingly different between the pro European sports clubs and those in North America.I have never heard of a youth system in any sport.It seems to be a scouting/buyers/selling sports market.

I truly hope that TFC will adopt that youth deveopment system and pass on this pro expertise to the young playres. It also creates over the years a tremndous following. I believe that ajax has around 20 or so youth teams.Multiply this by some fiftie years or so you have a tremendous following as well.

I guess that it would be advisable to review the benefits of the academy and Ajax youth development system and pick the best answers there are.

As i said so many times it is all about the youths.

I suppose that Jonathan Deguzman is a prime example as to what a good youth development system can do for the club and the playeras well.This applies to Robben as well as Van Persie and many many other Dutch stars.

[john tv]

I have always had great reservations about our youth development systems.When we have a gem,ie Jonathan and Owen they go abroad and now we see the results of pro clubs taken over were we as youth clubs have failed.Ajax as well as Feyenoord as any other pro club in Europe still have a highly sophistgated youth system as well as many other sports.In fact Jonathan was the captain of the Feyenoord youth team that won the championship in Holland in 2005.These youth teams were all the who is who in Holland.There is a defenite and great difference between the school system and the club system.Even after that Bosman ruling the clubs still continued to develop their own players as well.

The school system in the US is also totally different from our system,with these scolarships being the big one.I would love to see the Maple Leafs have a club system simular to Ajax as an example. They certainly would put a lot back into hockey and will with their rescources also be able to provide the very best in coaching etc.

It all goes back when for some reason the apprentice system as is well known in Europe never was accepted as a vital development of companies and sport clubs as well.

Don't get me wrong guys I am not knocking Canada,just again wondering why or why not?

[Richard]

The Vancouver Whitecaps operate a youth academy and run several teams in the SYL. Acceptance is by tryout and there are fees charged for participation. They do also run what they call their Prospects program which is subsidized by the Whitecaps.

There are no training fees or restrictions and players are invited from all programs and regional clubs. With no financial or program barriers, participation in prospects is fluid and dynamic thus ensuring that the top performers are always in the program. The Whitecaps have quite a lot of information about their youth programs on their website if anybody is interested. There will always be those who criticise and complain and I am sure the program is not perfect, but personally I think they are doing an excellent job and are an example worthy of emulation by other such clubs.

[I Caramba]

People out here involved with the Whitecaps youth program really hope that they continue to run the academy and Y league teams; no doubt this program costs them a significant chunk of change. The MLS mandate may in fact ensure the continuation of the Whitecaps youth system, as no doubt MLS -or its successor- is in the Whitecaps plans.

The whitecaps youth academy is a class operation and lots of other programs benefit indirectly from it, so it has a big general impact beyond the Y league teams themselves.

As an aside, we hear a lot of talk about choosing from a big pool of players, to be successful in developing youth players. The implication is that you have to look through a lot of frogs before you find a prince.

Consider, though, today's 2 Canadian newsmakers. Owen Hargreaves and David Edgar. Who were their most influential coaches I wonder? Their fathers, perhaps? Both have former professional soccer players as fathers. My guess is that, growing up, these kids had the support of a knowledgeable coach at home and just maybe that's what made all the difference......

[argh1]

Okay, some of you have brought up good points.

I could temper my rant to that Junior or U-21 players could sign on with a pro run Academy. But I'm still against Midget or U-18 players being owned and maybe sold by pro run Academies.

I used minor soccer instead of youth soccer because that's what we call U-18/Midget and under soccer in this neck o' da woods. Riverview Minor Soccer Association is who I make the cheques out to for my grand-kids at registration time.

I am only afraid that 15-16 year olds will be taken advantage of in an Academy system. I firmly believe that only players in Junior/U-21 (with the lack of U-21 or Junior leagues..see I got my mistake []..) but Midget/U-18 shouldn't be in Academies especially if they have to leave homes 100's of miles away.

My concern is for the kids and the possibility that parents will pay large sums and kids will have un-do expectations, when profit for the Academy is the main concern. Alarm bells went off when I read some of the early posts. I would like to see a program of excellence being instituted by our Associations from the top down. Before we look to private business to do it for us.

[Canuck Oranje]

Here in Sao Paulo, I don´t think many kids leave home until they are judged to be capable of playing in the first team or after the age of 18. Even Ronaldinho played for a local club Gremio in his youth. Kaka played for his parents´athletic club until his parents and coaches encouraged him to try out with the professional academy connected to that athletic club (Sao Paulo FC) when he was 13 (not that different from David Edgar when you think about it except that he didn´t leave his home town).

quote:Originally posted by argh1

Okay, some of you have brought up good points.

I could temper my rant to that Junior or U-21 players could sign on with a pro run Academy. But I'm still against Midget or U-18 players being owned and maybe sold by pro run Academies.

I used minor soccer instead of youth soccer because that's what we call U-18/Midget and under soccer in this neck o' da woods. Riverview Minor Soccer Association is who I make the cheques out to for my grand-kids at registration time.

I am only afraid that 15-16 year olds will be taken advantage of in an Academy system. I firmly believe that only players in Junior/U-21 (with the lack of U-21 or Junior leagues..see I got my mistake []..) but Midget/U-18 shouldn't be in Academies especially if they have to leave homes 100's of miles away.

My concern is for the kids and the possibility that parents will pay large sums and kids will have un-do expectations, when profit for the Academy is the main concern. Alarm bells went off when I read some of the early posts. I would like to see a program of excellence being instituted by our Associations from the top down. Before we look to private business to do it for us.

[Calgary Boomer]

Anything that promotes quality coaching and youth development is good news for all of us. You just worry sometimes about one program trying to raid another.

[john tv]

I guess we not only have numerous examples we also have famous numerous examples that clearly show that once a kid shows a very good promise they go to Europe and become part of the club system.

I had the great opportunity to spent a whole week with the Ajax team as well as watching all the juniors in action. The coaching that these kids were getting was amazing, so technical and so devoted and so motivating.Never seen anything like it.They were also taught the same system of play. In other words if they changed coaches the same system applied. This goes all the way up to the 1st team.

So here we are,Jonathan,David,Owen and so many others who all have the same common denominator and this should be looked at.

It is somewhat revealing that many young hockey players from Europe play here in Canada. I guess they also have the talent and i assume that they feel that by being here the stepping stone to play in the NHL is easier as well as being use to the N.A style of hockey and being discovered.

[argh1]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

I guess we not only have numerous examples we also have famous numerous examples that clearly show that once a kid shows a very good promise they go to Europe and become part of the club system.

Just answer me one question, please?

For 10 or 15 years Soccer NB and CSA have bragged that soccer registration is greater than Hockey NB and Hockey Canada.

What is Soccer NB and CSA doing with the dues?

I belong to both Soccer NB and Hockey NB. With less registration Hockey NB has given me more referring cetificates and classes through NBHOA (NB Hockey Officials Ass'n) and 3 times the coaching classes and certificates.

With all these big #'s what is Soccer NB and CSA doing? I have to beg to see what Soccer NB and CSA is providing where as I have to turn down Hockey NB and Hockey Canada because of time constraints,

[bettermirror]

richard: thanks for the response!