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Chelsea V Arsenal

Desigol

By Desigol
in World Soccer

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by Desigol

We hung on at the end. The reality was we weren't expected to win, so the point is welcome.

Drogba is the biggest Bitch in the Premiership (Moreso than Ronaldo).

Yup, Drogba embarrassed himself out there (again). And can someone tell me what Hilario is doing on a team like Chelsea? He's 3rd division quality at best.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

So if Arsenal can only score once against a 3rd division keeper, what does that make them?

IT makes them a team that was completely outplayed. OF course they were without 3 of their best players and Cesc had a rare offnight. When was Hilario even remotely tested in this match apart from the Flamini shot which he totally fluffed?

Plus your statement "only scored once" is inherently flawed. How many goals against has Chelsea allowed at home over the past couple of years? How many points have they dropped at home?

Your bias is blinding you. His player rating for the Arsenal game was a "4". "HILÁRIO Could not dominate a pensioners’ tea party, let alone a penalty area, and should have saved Mathieu Flamini’s goal"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,277-2498276,00.html

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River City Newbie

River City

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amacpher, your bias is blinding YOU. You're anti-Chelsea and that's fine, but the fact is Arsenal only scored once on Hilario. Me stating that fact is not inherently flawed.

So back to my question, if Hilario is at best a 3rd Div keeper, and Arsenal can only manage to score one goal, what does that make Arsenal?

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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LMS: 3 shots hit the inside of the post. You have to admit Arsenal were extrememely lucky not to lose that game.

quote:Originally posted by River City

amacpher, your bias is blinding YOU. You're anti-Chelsea and that's fine, but the fact is Arsenal only scored once on Hilario. Me stating that fact is not inherently flawed.

So back to my question, if Hilario is at best a 3rd Div keeper, and Arsenal can only manage to score one goal, what does that make Arsenal?

To be clear, when I say 3rd division, I mean 3rd-tier of England. And I'm not just basing that opinion on this one match. He seems to be somewhat slow and has short arms. Looks like a fat Raul Gonzalez actually. :D

What does that make Arsenal? Well, that's an O/T question. But it's only one game and without 3 of their best players, Arsenal were happy to play more conservative than they usually do. And Cesc (who is vital to the team when Henry is not playing) had a poor match. So they didn't generate many opportunities. In fact, Hilario was only challenged once all match and he failed in that challenge. [8)]

Now let me ask you a question. If the keeper of, say, Bristol City played all of Chelsea's remaining EPL matches this season, do you think Chelsea would suddenly start allowing 2, 3, 4 goals every game?

quote:Originally posted by loyola

They also gave SWP a 7 for his performance......

I agree Hilario didn't looked very good on that goal but it still was a shot from the PK spot.

True. The ratings seem a bit generous overall. (And Flamini's shot was from well-behind the PK spot, and more from the side as well.)

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River City Newbie

River City

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amacpher,

first, let me state that I didn't even know who Hilario was until Chelsea picked him up. And when they did, I never once expected him to actually play any games.

Having said that, the goalkeeping crew works together, so having the coaching staff, Cech and Cudicini (who would be an all-star goalie had Cech not been contracted) around, the third stringer was going to improve, regardless if they signed a one-legged hunchback with an eye-patch. It's guaranteed.

That and the fact he gets to face Shevchenko, Drogba, Ballack, Lampard, Robben, et all in practice, and you better be on your toes. If he was indeed a 3rd division level goalie, Chelsea would have gotten rid of him a long time ago.

Again, if I were picking my own squad, he wouldn't be in my top 10 or 20, but having been around Chelsea for a while now, he's not exactly crap. And if he was crap, then Arsenal is crappier for not shooting more or trying to create more chances against a weak goalie.

It was an entertaining match with enough action and off the play shenanigans to satisfy everyone. Both Arsenal and Chelsea played well, and both should have had at least one more goal each.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

amacpher,

That and the fact he gets to face Shevchenko, Drogba, Ballack, Lampard, Robben, et all in practice, and you better be on your toes. If he was indeed a 3rd division level goalie, Chelsea would have gotten rid of him a long time ago.

And play who? John Terry in goal.

quote:

Again, if I were picking my own squad, he wouldn't be in my top 10 or 20, but having been around Chelsea for a while now, he's not exactly crap. And if he was crap, then Arsenal is crappier for not shooting more or trying to create more chances against a weak goalie.

You're overestimating the difference b/w a top-flight player and a 3rd division player. I advise you to watch the third & 4th rounds of the FA Cup where you'll see Premiership clubs struggle to draw or beat an entire team of 3rd division players, nevermind a team with a 3rd division 'keeper.

I never said Hilario was crap.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

By your logic, then most 3rd division level goalies have a shot at doing well in the Premiership if they get a chance to make it.

No, that's not following my logic. Because I don't think Hilario is "doing well in the Premiership". He's not EPL quality and probably never will be considering he's past his prime. During his prime he played for Nacional - a team that certainly isn't EPL quality.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

Wow....a guy that shuts out Barcelona isn't EPL quality....

So the amateur 'keeper of Exeter City who shut-out Man United about a year ago in the FA Cup is automatically EPL quality?

(actually your statement is even more absurd than that because at least in the case of the Exeter City match, the keeper had to make several tough saves. Barcelona didn't generate a single scoring opportunity in that match at Stamford Bridge. In fact, even in the return leg Barca only got 3 shots on goal, 2 of which they scored on. [:I])

I'll repeat my point again. The difference between an EPL-quality keeper and a keeper in the 3rd tier is probably no more than 1 goal every 4 or 5 matches.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

Wow indeed. You dodge the question... So where is that Exeter City keeper today if a shut-out of a team like Man United => EPL quality 'keeper? Which EPL or La Liga team is he playing for now? Care to enlighten us? :D

Another shaky outing by Hilario against Newcastle yesterday, by the way. And I'm quoting the English commentator when I write that so don't pretend I'm the only one with that opinion.

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River City Newbie

River City

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I dodge the question because your belief that a 3rd Div keeper is only different from an EPL one by no more than 1 goal every 4 or 5 matches is laughable.

As is your rating of Hilario as a 3rd Div keeper.

After all the money Chelsea has spent on players, coaching and preparation, you believe they would put everything in jeapordy by playing a 3rd Div keeper? C'mon. You may not like Mourinho, his reliance on defence, but seriously, you believe he's an idiot?

Like I said, he wouldn't be in my top 10 list of keepers, but I don't rate him so low to qualify him as a 3rd Div keeper.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

I dodge the question because your belief that a 3rd Div keeper is only different from an EPL one by no more than 1 goal every 4 or 5 matches is laughable.

Well, your belief that one clean sheet against a top club makes you EPL caliber is even more laughable. And proven wrong with the Exeter City example where a 6th-division keeper shut-out Man United.

quote:

As is your rating of Hilario as a 3rd Div keeper.

Yet he played for Nacional during the prime of his career, which is at best a second division (England) caliber club.

quote:

After all the money Chelsea has spent on players, coaching and preparation, you believe they would put everything in jeapordy by playing a 3rd Div keeper? C'mon. You may not like Mourinho, his reliance on defence, but seriously, you believe he's an idiot?

Like I said before. Who else can they play in goal? John Terry?

Honestly, when they signed Hilario I don't think Mourinho had any intention of playing him. Maybe a few league cup matches, but that's it. Who knew that both Cech and Cudicini would go down in the same match right after the transfer window closed?

I doubt that any of the third-string keepers for EPL clubs are of EPL quality. If they were, they'd play for a smaller club and get more playing time and probably more money (as even the starting keeper for a team like Blackburn or Charlton will get paid more than a 3rd-stringer for Man United or Arsenal). Because unlike being a 3rd-string striker, or 3rd string left-back, etc. (where you might have a chance to come on as a substitute in some games) when you are a 3rd string keeper you have almost ZERO chance of playing.

Now I wouldnt be at all surprised if the other 19 3rd string EPL keepers all stink as bad as Hilario, but the reason I made my initial point is because I thought Chelsea would be the exception to the norm. It won't hurt them to shell-out decent money for a third-stringer.

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amacpher Newbie

amacpher

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quote:Originally posted by River City

I dodge the question because your belief that a 3rd Div keeper is only different from an EPL one by no more than 1 goal every 4 or 5 matches is laughable.

Well, your belief that one clean sheet against a top club makes you EPL caliber is even more laughable. And proven wrong with the Exeter City example where a 6th-division keeper shut-out Man United.

quote:

As is your rating of Hilario as a 3rd Div keeper.

Yet he played for Nacional during the prime of his career, which is at best a second division (England) caliber club.

quote:

After all the money Chelsea has spent on players, coaching and preparation, you believe they would put everything in jeapordy by playing a 3rd Div keeper? C'mon. You may not like Mourinho, his reliance on defence, but seriously, you believe he's an idiot?

Like I said before. Who else can they play in goal? John Terry?

Honestly, when they signed Hilario I don't think Mourinho had any intention of playing him. Maybe a few league cup matches, but that's it. Who knew that both Cech and Cudicini would go down in the same match right after the transfer window closed?

I doubt that any of the third-string keepers for EPL clubs are of EPL quality. If they were, they'd play for a smaller club and get more playing time and probably more money (as even the starting keeper for a team like Blackburn or Charlton will get paid more than a 3rd-stringer for Man United or Arsenal). Because unlike being a 3rd-string striker, or 3rd string left-back, etc. (where you might have a chance to come on as a substitute in some games) when you are a 3rd string keeper you have almost ZERO chance of playing.

Now I wouldnt be at all surprised if the other 19 3rd string EPL keepers all stink as bad as Hilario, but the reason I made my initial point is because I thought Chelsea would be the exception to the norm. It won't hurt them to shell-out decent money for a third-stringer.

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