beachesl Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Here's the BBC story. Looks like Liverpool will have to reschedule their Exhibition match schedule. Why are so many of the English so obtuse that they blame others generally, and UEFA particualrly, for any mess? The "top four" debacle should have been sorted out by the English FA a year ago so every one knew where they would stand. Now the supporters are upset that Liverpool have to start out in the first qualifiers in a month, the other English clubs are upset about sharing revenue, and Man City are upset because they think they should have been handed Liverpool's UEFA Cup spot on a sliver platter! Grow up England, it's not just about you! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Liverpool get in Champions League Unanimous means that everybody is supporting it. By definition, that is also the case here Uefa chief executive Lars-Christer Olsson Liverpool have been given the chance to defend their Champions League crown after Uefa handed them a place in the first qualifying round for next season. The Reds beat AC Milan in last season's final but, because they finished out of the Premiership's top four, were not guaranteed entry in 2005-2006. Uefa's executive committee changed its rules on Friday to allow Liverpool in. "We wish to express our thanks to those who supported us and campaigned," said chief executive Rick Parry. The key points: Liverpool get the smallest share of England's television money if they reach the group stages. But any other English teams involved - from Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United and Everton - will still get less money than they would have done were Liverpool not involved. Liverpool get no "country protection" preventing them meeting other English clubs. But they are seeded. This means they could face Everton in the third qualifying round, but not Manchester United, and could be in a group with Chelsea, but not Arsenal. In future, the title holders will be entered automatically. Rafael Benitez's men will now face a first qualifying round first leg on 12 or 13 July and a second leg on 19 or 20 July. REDS FIXTURE CONGESTION Champions League 12-13 July: 1st round, 1st leg 19-20 July: 1st round, 2nd leg 26-27 July: 2nd round, 1st leg 2-3 Aug: 2nd round, 2nd leg 9-10 Aug: 3rd round, 1st leg 23-24 Aug: 3rd round, 2nd leg Pre-season 16 July: v Bayer Leverkusen 22 July: FC Cologne 27 July: Shimizu S-Pulse 30 July: Kashima Antlers Super Cup 26 Aug: v CSKA Moscow That means they will now probably have to cancel scheduled friendlies against Bayer Leverkusen and Cologne. And if successful in the first qualifying round, they will probably also have to cancel a pre-season tour of Japan, where they are due to play Shimizu S-Pulse and Kashima Antlers. Uefa chief executive Lars-Christer Olsson told BBC Radio Five Live the decision by the 14-man executive committee was unanimous. "Unanimous means that everybody is supporting it. By definition, that is also the case here. "There were no discussions actually on where they should enter the competition because everybody was of the opinion they should be given the opportunity but they have to start from the beginning. "They could not be allowed to get into the 32 for example." But while there is joy for Liverpool, there has been disappointment for Manchester City. Man City blow despite Reds U-turn The Uefa Cup spot which Liverpool had earned for finishing fifth in the Premiership will not transfer to another English club so City, who would have been next in line, will not be in Europe. And it is likely that Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United and Everton will be unhappy at potentially sharing the television money with one other club. Uefa spokesman William Gaillard admitted splitting the pot five ways rather than four will be "a burden on the other English-based clubs". Aside from not letting us in at all, could they have given us anything less? If Manchester United or Everton fail to reach the group stage but Liverpool do the pot could go back to being split four ways - but anyone involved from England will still get less because of the Reds. If four English clubs reach the group stages, Chelsea will get 40%, Arsenal 30% and two out of Manchester United, Liverpool and Everton will get 15% each. If all five get through Uefa will think again. But while the others will feel hard done by, even Liverpool have suffered in comparison with other Champions League winners. Normally the title holders get 30% of the money for their country if they are not also the domestic champions. Meanwhile Uefa insists the saga which has dogged it since Liverpool finished fifth domestically and then won the Champions League will never be repeated. "The Uefa executive committee decided to amend the regulations for the future editions of the Champions League, so that the holders will have the right to defend their title and therefore qualify automatically," said a statement on the organisation's website. The new system is in marked contrast to 2000, when Real Madrid won the Champions League but finished outside of Spain's qualification positions. On that occasion fourth-placed Real Zaragoza were relegated to the Uefa Cup. Reacting to the news, Liverpool midfielder Dietmar Hamann told BBC Radio Five Live: "It's tremendous news, great for the club. "We've still got two or three weeks to prepare, which should be enough to get in physical shape to cope with the pre-season schedule." We always said that this was an exceptional situation which required an exceptional solution Brian Barwick FA chief executive And Football Association chief executive Brian Barwick added: "We thank the Uefa executive committee and especially its president Lennart Johansson for listening to the strength of the argument for Liverpool's entry. "We always said that this was an exceptional situation which required an exceptional solution. For the very first time, one country has five teams in the Champions League and we have to be delighted at that. "We believed there were very strong sporting reasons for Liverpool to defend their title, not least after that fantastic final in Istanbul. That view has prevailed, and rightly so." Sports minister Richard Caborn added: "I'm delighted that Uefa have decided to allow Liverpool to defend their trophy. "This is a triumph for common sense and the spirit of sport. I look forward to the start of the new season and the British clubs making a powerful impact again." But some Liverpool supporters are unhappy with the decision. Les Lawson, spokesman for the Liverpool International Supporters' Club, said: "Uefa have been caught with egg on their faces over this because the FA put the first four in the Premiership into next season's tournament. "It means Uefa have had to sort it out and they have done the minimum possible. They have treated their own champions with contempt. "It is a disgrace. Liverpool are the top team in Europe because they are the holders and have beaten Europe's best. They are being treated like TNS or other very small clubs. "To be told they have to start in the first qualifier is wrong and a real kick in the teeth." And Alan Kennedy, who scored the winning goal for the Reds in the 1981 final against Real Madrid, added: "Coming in at the early stages disregards where Liverpool finished in the Champions League. "They won it, so they should be entitled to be in at the third qualifying round." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I haven't read anything about another team being removed from the 1st qualification round. How are they fitting Liverpool in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Brutal decision by UEFA, but it was expected. I feel sorry for Real Zaragoza (I think it was them), who missed out on the CL to let Real Madrid in a few years back. Funny how Spain was able to resolve their situation. Well, the English are now offically the biggest whiners in the world. Well, at least their whining accomplished its goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Answering my own question, it seems that the Champions League format "holds" a spot in the first group stage for the champion - which I'm assuming it fills in with some other method, if the champion would have qualified regardless through its domestic league/cup. (The problem with giving the spot to Liverpool is that UEFA wouldn't allow more than 4 teams from any one country, and England, Spain and Italy all get 4 entrants already.) Turkey's Fenerbahçe get bumped up to the group stage. "Poland's Wisla Kraków will move up to the third qualifying round and the eventual Romanian champions will take the available second qualifying round spot, rather than entering in the first qualifying round." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Liverpool's inclusion came at the expense of the champions of Andorra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 They shouldn't have been in at all. UEFA bent the rules under pressure. They failed to qualify according to UEFA and FA rules, they should not be in. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 "A Great Decision For Football (But A Terrible Decision For Liverpool Fans) Barry Glendenning Guardian Unlimited Friday June 10, 2005 CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! You could be forgiven for assuming that Liverpool fans would be relieved when it was finally announced their club will get to defend its Big Cup title next season. After all, they finished a distant fifth in the Premiership, a whopping 38 points behind winners Chelsea and didn't actually qualify for the competition. But having been on the receiving end of one or two (billion) missives from paranoid Scousers over the years, The Fiver knew better. So we weren't one bit surprised by the cacophony of ungrateful wailing, weeping and teeth-gnashing triggered around Anfield when Uefa's 14-man executive committee decided over breakfast (today's menu: fudge, fudge and more fudge) to make "a special case" and allow the holders into the first qualifying round of next season's Big Cup. "Uefa have treated their own champions with contempt. To be told they have to start in the first qualifier is wrong and a real kick in the teeth," whinged Les Lawson, spokesperson for the Liverpool International Supporters' Club, upon hearing his team will be forced to play actual football matches if they are to retain their shiny trophy. And while The Fiver agrees that it would have been much fairer of Uefa to fast-track Liverpool into the last five minutes of next season's Big Cup final with a two-goal lead, fans of other teams will relish the possibility of the holders being eliminated in the preliminaries by a team that has actually earned the right to be there. Total Network Solutions or Shelbourne, for example. Or Everton. Liverpool will have to play six matches to qualify for the group stages of this year's Big Cup, with the first one pencilled in for - stop your sniggering now - mid-July. Cue: the cancellation of a money-making tour of fabled Scouse outpost Japan, and even more pompous, self-pitying whining: "We are being treated like nobodies, we deserve to be treated with some respect," howled Les. In the end, it was left to former player and assistant manager Phil Thomson to inject a long overdue dose of humility into proceedings. "We are delighted we are back in. It's a great decision for football," he aye-ayed gratefully as a stampeding herd of angry Manchester City fans thundered towards Soho Square, anxious to discover if they can emulate the Koppites by whining their way into a certain recently-vacated Euro Vase berth. So far, they can't." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 "A Great Decision For Football (But A Terrible Decision For Liverpool Fans) Barry Glendenning Guardian Unlimited Friday June 10, 2005 CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! You could be forgiven for assuming that Liverpool fans would be relieved when it was finally announced their club will get to defend its Big Cup title next season. After all, they finished a distant fifth in the Premiership, a whopping 38 points behind winners Chelsea and didn't actually qualify for the competition. But having been on the receiving end of one or two (billion) missives from paranoid Scousers over the years, The Fiver knew better. So we weren't one bit surprised by the cacophony of ungrateful wailing, weeping and teeth-gnashing triggered around Anfield when Uefa's 14-man executive committee decided over breakfast (today's menu: fudge, fudge and more fudge) to make "a special case" and allow the holders into the first qualifying round of next season's Big Cup. "Uefa have treated their own champions with contempt. To be told they have to start in the first qualifier is wrong and a real kick in the teeth," whinged Les Lawson, spokesperson for the Liverpool International Supporters' Club, upon hearing his team will be forced to play actual football matches if they are to retain their shiny trophy. And while The Fiver agrees that it would have been much fairer of Uefa to fast-track Liverpool into the last five minutes of next season's Big Cup final with a two-goal lead, fans of other teams will relish the possibility of the holders being eliminated in the preliminaries by a team that has actually earned the right to be there. Total Network Solutions or Shelbourne, for example. Or Everton. Liverpool will have to play six matches to qualify for the group stages of this year's Big Cup, with the first one pencilled in for - stop your sniggering now - mid-July. Cue: the cancellation of a money-making tour of fabled Scouse outpost Japan, and even more pompous, self-pitying whining: "We are being treated like nobodies, we deserve to be treated with some respect," howled Les. In the end, it was left to former player and assistant manager Phil Thomson to inject a long overdue dose of humility into proceedings. "We are delighted we are back in. It's a great decision for football," he aye-ayed gratefully as a stampeding herd of angry Manchester City fans thundered towards Soho Square, anxious to discover if they can emulate the Koppites by whining their way into a certain recently-vacated Euro Vase berth. So far, they can't." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canso Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Are you a Milan fan LoudMouth? They have amended the rules to prevent this sort of embarassment in the future, holders are guaranteed a chance to defend their title, which is as it should be. They should also reward the champions country by awarding an extra place in the Champions League to that FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 quote:Originally posted by canso They have amended the rules to prevent this sort of embarassment in the future, holders are guaranteed a chance to defend their title, which is as it should be. They should also reward the champions country by awarding an extra place in the Champions League to that FA. boldness added. Hmmmm....This last suggestion would seem to have your 'Pool sympathisng conveniently covered twice. But why should the winning team's FA be granted an extra place, which would obviously come at the expense of some minnow FA? Imagine if the World Cup were to apply the same logic, when if shockingly an Oceania team were to win it, and FIFA decides to take away a spot from say, CONCACAF. Wouldn't be too happy about that now would you? The way that the UEFA seeding system is designed, as byzantine as it may seem, is to give an appropriate amount of seedings to the best teams in each league, weighted accordingly towards team(s)' long-run performance of about five years I think. Such a system does not predict that a team that finished 37 points behind their own league champions would compete for the CL trophy. Stripping away spots from minnow FAs would diminish the nature of what UEFA is supposed to do, to treat each FA under their umbrella with equal concern and take into consideration the strength of their respective league when allocating CL spots. I fail to see how taking a spot away from a minnow, and thereby devaluing that FA, would exercise UEFA's role as a governing body that cares equally for each FA under the UEFA umbrella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Look, don't blame Liverpool, blame the UEFA for not having forseen this. FIFA traditionally guaranteed a spot for defending champs so UEFA should have had a contingency, but they dropped the ball. Liverpool went out and won. They didnt do anything wrong, blame UEFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Yeah, it's a bit surprising that this situation wasn't forseen. Maybe not so much using an English model, but the possibility exists within many other leagues within Europe where a club could miss out of a CL spot but make a run to win the CL title. With the financial rewards of CL play I don't think there isn't a team in most any league which wouldn't sacrafice domestic performance to save their best and brightest for tourny play. All in all, what juaninho wrote, echo that. I hate changing rules in mid flight. Hate it. Some times **** happens and you want to correct what's preceived as an injustice while you stil can. But at the end of the day, someone's going to suffer and there's no justice in trading one persons pain for anothers. The lesser of two evils? I guess. But I find it hard to sypathise with a Liverpool who were "unlucky" enough to have won the CL title and suffered such a fate as not having the opportunity to defend their title because of their poor domestic showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Cheeta - keep in mind that if any team was to win the Champions League that wasn't from England, Spain or Italy - they would be guaranteed a spot in the group stages of next year's competition - regardless of how they fared in their domestic league/cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack Liverpool's inclusion came at the expense of the champions of Andorra. Don't Andorra, San Marino, and Liechtenstein only get a Cup winners spot in UC and that's it. Which leaves the question of was somebody knocked out of CL Q1? But I still think it was up to the FA to nominate Liverpool not UEFA's job to change the rules at the end of the season. I don't like the rule any more then Brazil not getting an automatic spot in 2006 WC. But the rules were there at the start of season and all knew them. Why UEFA became the agent of the FA on this who showed nothing but cowardice on this issue is amazing. The FA passed the buck to UEFA and UFEA accepted. Astounding. EDIT: I think the Canadian SA should petition CONCACAF to change the rules so we can be included in the World Club Championship due to the unfair disadvantage we suffer in not being included in Champions Cup and change the rules now after CONCACAF Champions Cup is over. A precedent has been set that rules at the beginning of the season don't apply at the end. Appeal our exclusion to the Soccer worlds Supreme Court. Liverpool deserve the chance to lose to the Impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by argh1 Don't Andorra, San Marino, and Liechtenstein only get a Cup winners spot in UC and that's it. Which leaves the question of was somebody knocked out of CL Q1? It is my understanding that a spot in the group stages is reserved for the Champions League title holders. If the Champions League title holder would have already qualified for the group stages bsaed on their domestic form, then all of UEFA countries below that country in the UEFA coefficient rankings get their Champions League allocations "bumped" up one spot in the rankings. In last year's regulations, Andorra are the highest ranked country that does not automatically get a CL spot. Thus, if the CL title holder take up one of their country's CL qualification spots, then Andorra get bumped up and get a spot in the first qualifying round. One of the rules is that no country may have more than four teams in the Champions League - thus the different rules that apply to a CL title holder from England, Spain or Italy. And that was the crux of Liverpool's argument. The regulations are here (http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19071.pdf), although it is not clear about this "bumping up", as I describe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I'm not a Milan fan, canso. I just think UEFA and The FA are bottling it under pressure from those who feel Liverpool should have been given some sort of 'sympathy vote' simply because they've won it before and also felt pity because they were sucktacular enough to only finish fifth in their own domestic league, outside of the assigned UEFA CL spots. The FA finally saw sense when they said the four who won spots woudn't lose them, but they still wanted Liverpool in some how, but they chickened out of deciding how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argh1 Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by sstackho In last year's regulations, Andorra are the highest ranked country that does not automatically get a CL spot. Thus, if the CL title holder take up one of their country's CL qualification spots, then Andorra get bumped up and get a spot in the first qualifying round. I believe that the three nations I mentioned do not get any Champions League places only UEFA Cup places to their domestic Cups' winners. But I could be wrong which would make you right! The ripple effect has only started. For example due to one less English club in UC, Hibs in Scotland has been bumped from UEFA CUP Q2 to Q3 so basically UEFA has caused one massive fluck up, and Man City is mad they don't get the English last UEFA CUP spot vacated by Liverpool.(my head hurts) Not to mention that Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Ure and Everton are upset that they'll get a lesser amount of the TV $$ because now Liverpool get a share. So now does Andorra maybe get an extra UEFA CUP spot due to their ranking as there'll be one less UEFA CUP qualifying club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 quote:Originally posted by argh1 I believe that the three nations I mentioned do not get any Champions League places only UEFA Cup places to their domestic Cups' winners. But I could be wrong which would make you right! I agree with you - those three countries normally do not get a CL spot - but they might due to the ripple effect. I just noticed that Liechtenstein are ranked higher than several other countries that get a CL spot (such as your beloved Northern Ireland) - I wonder why they don't get a spot themselves?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacRWE Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 what will Liverpool do if they lose the qualifier??? were all thinking that there in, but technically they have only one foot in the door. Remeber, they struggled with Graz in the qualifying round last year. Do we know who they will draw, no? because they have no country alliance, aka nomad club, could they draw the Toffee's? That would be a mouthwatering match... no doubt! There are some teams out there that could be a thorn in a "over confident" liverpool, ie. Hajduk Split or Swedish club? What kind of team will 'Pool put out, if players like Zak Whitbred, Daren Potter and Steven Warnock play, could it be another Burnly disaster?... Quite possibly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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