Canadian pro-league, if Toronto MLS is now dead

[Luis_Rancagua]

With chances that the York University stadium project is probably dead, this would probably mean that Toronto will lose its MLS bid. It seems that MLS is bidding on Toronto building its stadium. Without it, there isn't very much for MLS could do for Toronto than give the bid to another American city that's serious of building a specific soccer stadium. Therefore, what are the chances of reviving the CUSL option??? Its seems to me as an important plan-B that the CSA could do.

[Richard]

Don't count the York project out yet. Reports of its demise are premature.

"York University has decided not to wait for the Toronto Argonauts to make up their minds on involvement in a proposed new outdoor stadium and is moving ahead on the project with or without the Canadian Football League team."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050429/STADIUM29/TPNational/Toronto

[Calgary Boomer]

It's better without the Argos involved. The stadium will be smaller, more compact, more suitable for soccer. (20,000 now) I'm sure it will be built, but the two year countown starts in just a little over 2 months!

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

With chances that the York University stadium project is probably dead, this would probably mean that Toronto will lose its MLS bid. It seems that MLS is bidding on Toronto building its stadium. Without it, there isn't very much for MLS could do for Toronto than give the bid to another American city that's serious of building a specific soccer stadium. Therefore, what are the chances of reviving the CUSL option??? Its seems to me as an important plan-B e CSA could do.

My challenge to all those on this board that want a CUSL/CSL3 type pan Canadian league. Get 4 thousand on-line signatures stating that the good folks of blank will buy season tickets for a potential team. Start a website.

Don't just talk about it. Do something tangibal about it. No more 300 post threads chatting about it.

I'm sure if you can get 4000 or even 2000 people willing to plunk down 50 bucks a deposit on season tickets, someone somewhere with cash will jump at the opportunity to lose money.

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

My challenge to all those on this board that want a CUSL/CSL3 type pan Canadian league. Get 4 thousand on-line signatures stating that the good folks of blank will buy season tickets for a potential team. Start a website.

Don't just talk about it. Do something tangibal about it. No more 300 post threads chatting about it.

I'm sure if you can get 4000 or even 2000 people willing to plunk down 50 bucks a deposit on season tickets, someone somewhere with cash will jump at the opportunity to lose money.

Now your talking. I'll volunteer to hold 4,000 deposits of $50. You guys can trust me with $200,000, right?

However, I foresee that it will probably be a far greater challenge trying to obtain 4,000 signatures from all those who participated in that thread of 300 posts.

[FC Beast]

Another Canadian soccer league is not going to happen. Nobody wants

to watch soccer in mickey mouse parks like Swangard,The Lynx park or

the Impacts, thats not professional, thats pub league stuff. Where

are the owners coming from for this new Canadian League? I don't see

them breaking down the doors of the CSA with endless amounts of cash

to invest (lose). What owner would try a field teams in cities such

as Edmonton/Calgary where the sport has no support at all,just failure. The USL will only go on for so long, nobody takes the league

serious, and that won't change anytime soon. What about TV coverage

for this new league? Whose going bother putting the games on Canadian

tv like sportsnet,TSN, when they know long term the league won't survive?

[RealGooner]

I have to agree with Beast here. With the availability of so many high quality sports alternatives to Canadians now, the only way soccer will take off is if soccer brings its high-end "A-Game" to the party. People won't support something just because its Canadian, they want to support something because its high-quality. Its the herd mentality, people want to support a winner, and only a 'winner' will excite interest in the game. None of the daydream proposals for a Canadian League come close to satisfying the public's desire for soccer at the level they see on TSN and Sportsnet, so like it or not MLS is going to have to come to Canada. I'm all for it, to heck with Dave Perkins.

[Chet]

I have some doubts about whether a 20,000 seat stadium would be acceptable to MLS. On one hand, the league's average attendance was only 15,000 last year. But on the other hand, even Miami, with the worst attendance in the league, still managed a peak crowd of over 22,000. Only two teams in the entire league had peak attendances less than 30,000. With a maximum capacity of 20,000, a Toronto team playing out of York stadium would be at a distinct disadvantage.

[PlayerUK]

quote:Originally posted by FC Beast

Another Canadian soccer league is not going to happen. Nobody wants

to watch soccer in mickey mouse parks like Swangard,The Lynx park or

the Impacts, thats not professional, thats pub league stuff. Where

are the owners coming from for this new Canadian League? I don't see

them breaking down the doors of the CSA with endless amounts of cash

to invest (lose). What owner would try a field teams in cities such

as Edmonton/Calgary where the sport has no support at all,just failure. The USL will only go on for so long, nobody takes the league

serious, and that won't change anytime soon. What about TV coverage

for this new league? Whose going bother putting the games on Canadian

tv like sportsnet,TSN, when they know long term the league won't survive?

Sorry, I dont quite understand! Why are there calls for a new canadian league? Whats the problems with the current league?

Do the games not get shown on TV at all?

[L.T.]

There isn't one...

[PlayerUK]

quote:Originally posted by L.T.

There isn't one...

There isnt one?

What is the CPSL? What do the clubs play for then?I reall ydont have a clue!

[Richard]

The CPSL is a regional league with all but one team playing out of southern Ontario and despite its name it is essentially an amateur league. Their website has yet to be updated for the 2005 season it seems.

http://www.cpsl.org

[Luis_Rancagua]

Guys, let's face reality here. With the Argos pulling-out, and with the chance that the new stadium will not be build, the MLS will not award a franchise to Toronto. This unfortunate move will put Canadian soccer into the back burners for at least another 7-10 years, unless we initiate a new pro-league. Canadian soccer can not afford another wasted years. Things are going to get worst and not better. In fact, according to the latest gossip on BigSoccer, Toronto has by now lost its MLS bid as a result of the stadium deal. If this is the case, we better start thinking of a Plan-B. That's if we have one.

[Jarrek]

On average the CPSL attracts 20-50 people to their games.

[PlayerUK]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

On average the CPSL attracts 20-50 people to their games.

really? i thought i read somewhere it was average 300 a game?

Who are the league teams then? And do many players do a 'paul Munster'?

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

On average the CPSL attracts 20-50 people to their games.

No wonder their not slapping up 25,000 seat stadiums out there. I always have to chuckle when those who think they have all the answers claim we need to build professional SSS's to be successful in professional soccer.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

On average the CPSL attracts 20-50 people to their games.

It's higher than that. Probably around 100, at least. There are some teams that attract 20-50, but others that attract 200 or more.

quote:Originally posted by PlayerUK

What happens in a pre-game ceremony?

http://www.cpsl.ca/rules.asp

Walk Out

Walk out will take place 12 minutes prior to the scheduled kick-off time.

Players and game officials will be introduced over the Public Address system. The pre-game ceremony will be completed at least 5 minutes prior to the scheduled kick-off time.

Yes, that is what happens. There is also the playing of our national anthem, which is standard practice in North America.

PlayerUK, be aware that most people here have never attended a CPSL game and/or do not follow the league, either because they are on the other side of the country or are just not interested in it, therefore some comments are not going to be accurate. The level of play is apparently similar to the English Conference or slightly lower and the whole setup isn't very professional to say the least, hence most people don't pay attention to it. There are also various other regional leagues scattered across the country that are similar to the CPSL in most respects, except they don't claim to be professional (which they aren't). Most people follow our best teams who play in an American league, the USL First Division, which ranges from semi-professional to professional depending on the team and has a level of play that is arguably similar to English League Two or lower League One. But generally speaking club soccer is not a big deal in Canada, even amongst the hardcore on this forum, who are more interested in our national team. Just trying to give you some perspective.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Chet

I have some doubts about whether a 20,000 seat stadium would be acceptable to MLS. On one hand, the league's average attendance was only 15,000 last year. But on the other hand, even Miami, with the worst attendance in the league, still managed a peak crowd of over 22,000. Only two teams in the entire league had peak attendances less than 30,000. With a maximum capacity of 20,000, a Toronto team playing out of York stadium would be at a distinct disadvantage.

Yes a 20,000 seat stadium would be acceptable to MLS, their minimum

stadium seating is 17,000,so that wouldn't be a problem. But the

stadium issue is now dead, so Toronto will have to wait a bit of

a while before pro soccer finally returns to the city.

[Sempuukyaku]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

Guys, let's face reality here. With the Argos pulling-out, and with the chance that the new stadium will not be build, the MLS will not award a franchise to Toronto. This unfortunate move will put Canadian soccer into the back burners for at least another 7-10 years, unless we initiate a new pro-league. Canadian soccer can not afford another wasted years. Things are going to get worst and not better. In fact, according to the latest gossip on BigSoccer, Toronto has by now lost its MLS bid as a result of the stadium deal. If this is the case, we better start thinking of a Plan-B. That's if we have one.

Um...I'm a regular poster on bigsoccer and there has been no such gossip. We are wondering however if the stadium will get done, otherwise Toronto aint getting a team.

[Luis_Rancagua]

quote:Originally posted by Sempuukyaku

...We are wondering ...if the stadium will get done, otherwise Toronto aint getting a team...

That's exactly my point. There is no way in hell that Toronto will win their MLS bid if the stadium does not get build. At the rate things are going, the stadium is not expected to get build periodly. This is simply as a result that the Argos Football Club (CFL) have pulled-out from the stadium deal. This unfortunately will bring serious detrimental affects to the development of pro-soccer in Canada. For this reason I am pleading with the rest of Canada that we turn to another alternative. This alternative is plan-B: a new pro-league from sea-to-sea.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by Luis_Rancagua

That's exactly my point. There is no way in hell that Toronto will win their MLS bid if the stadium does not get build. At the rate things are going, the stadium is not expected to get build periodly. This is simply as a result that the Argos Football Club (CFL) have pulled-out from the stadium deal. This unfortunately will bring serious detrimental affects to the development of pro-soccer in Canada. For this reason I am pleading with the rest of Canada that we turn to another alternative. This alternative is plan-B: a new pro-league from sea-to-sea.

Good points Luis, but lets take a look at a possible Canadian league

again. Which cities would make a good quality league?

1) Victoria- been there done that, it failed in the CSL so going

back there would be a waste of time.

2) Vancouver- A strong soocer market with the whitecaps,but they

also maybe loking at MLS long term.

3) Calgary/Edmonton- To cities that have never supported the teams

they did have very well. Avoid the cities to start off.

4) Regina/Saskatoon- unknown at this point, can soccer go up

against the green riders? Still a better choice then the

Alberta duo.

5) Winnipeg- This would be a must, Winnipeg did well with the

old Fury of the CSL.

6) Toronto- Looking at MLS, thats the only way soccer will

survive in this city, no one likes or cares for the Lynx

so this city won't be good for a Canadian league.

7) Hamilton- no proper soccer stadium, Ivor Wynne sucks big

time. Brian Timmis......? like Edmonton/Calgary poor choice

for a franchise.

8 London- anyone remember the London Lasers of the CSL?

Forget London.

9) Ottawa- another possible good site, with good stable

ownership this city could work.

10) Montreal- good at supporting at Impact (when they are

winning anyway) maybe be looking at MLS down the road,

could put a reserve team in a new CSL ,

11) Quebec City- it would be good to have a quebec rivalry,

don't have a stadium though.

12) Maritimes- Nova Scotia Clippers remember them ?

so looking at the league you would have 3 strong markets,

Vancouver, Montreal, Winnipeg. 2 untried markers Regina/

Quebec City. And the rest...doesn't make a new Canadian league look

to promising does it.

[RealGooner]

Luis , I dont know where you get your information from, CSA are committed, York is busy drawing up new designs for a cheaper stadium, MLS Commissioner Garber wants to put a franchise here FIFA VP Jack Warner is on record as saying FIFA wants the WYC to be present in Canadas biggest sporting marketplace, so all the factors still lean towards a stadium. I wonder if perhaps you don't want the stadium to be built because you want to see an all-Canadian league....keep hopin there bro lol

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

Luis , I dont know where you get your information from, CSA are committed, York is busy drawing up new designs for a cheaper stadium, MLS Commissioner Garber wants to put a franchise here FIFA VP Jack Warner is on record as saying FIFA wants the WYC to be present in Canadas biggest sporting marketplace, so all the factors still lean towards a stadium. I wonder if perhaps you don't want the stadium to be built because you want to see an all-Canadian league....keep hopin there bro lol

We would all like to see a national league and MLS in Canada they both could work. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver in the MLS and

have reserve sides in a Canadian league, along with Winnipeg,

Regina,Ottawa, Quebec City,Ottawa, and maybe a team in the Maritimes

making a 9 team league.

[Richard]

Beast, how do you think a third division pan-Canadian reserve league would be funded?

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Beast, how do you think a third division pan-Canadian reserve league would be funded?

Exactly. It couldn't be. Anything of this sort must be regional. It's the only way although that means it would be CPSL calibre with CPSL support.

As long as a league of this sort realizes its place, that's would do.