Jeremy Loome Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release Edmonton Aviators announce re-organization Edmonton, June 23, 2004 51; Today, the Edmonton Aviators announced a front office re-organization following the resignation of their President, Wylie Stafford. The Chairman of the Aviators Board of Directors, Tom Newton, has been appointed interim President and has been given the mandate to build on the early successes of Stafford. 60;We are grateful for Wylie57;s contributions. His dedication and loyalty has got us to where we are today and we look forward to building on what has been established,61; said Tom Newton, Chairman of the Aviators Board of Directors. Stafford was a part-time President with the Aviators organization for the past year and one-half. In addition to his responsibility with the Aviators, he has been operating a consulting business during this time. Stafford has stepped aside to re-focus his energies on his consulting business. He will retain his position on the Board of Directors and as such, is expected to play an integral role in the company57;s direction. During his term as President, Stafford negotiated a three year partnership with the Edmonton Minor Soccer Association. 60;We will continue to work with the minor soccer community to develop strong youth programs throughout the region61;, said Newton.60;The support of the minor soccer community is critical to our long-term success61;. Greg McDannold, Director of Business Operations and Joe Petrone, Director of Soccer Operations will share responsibilities for the day-to-day management of the Aviatorsorganization. Both McDannold and Petrone will report to Chairman of the Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seether Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Heads were bound to roll eventually. When an expansion side's business plan calls for drawing 11,000 per game at some of the highest ticket prices in the league, that goes beyond optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 It was painfully obvious right from the club's inception that the direction provided by administration was lacking. Whilst listening to the radio (The Team 1260) late this afternoon, there were some discussions relative to the Stadium crisis. One caller suggested that the Eskimos should, as a community based organization, divert proceeds from the sale of the Trappers baseball team into building additional seats at Clarke or towards a completely new facility with seating for 6,000 - 10,000 people. Of course, it became a laughable point...one professional team being responsible for the survival of another. One point raised by the host...and this isn't quite verbatim, but close... "They train at a high school, and play at a 50,000+ stadium...that's just goofy. They could have negotiated something somewhere, even at Foote Field, somewhere professional to practice." Isn't it, though? Isn't this just goofy? I feel for Mr. Stafford, although I have a hard time showing too much sympathy with a person who felt 11,000 people a match was realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Wow... look at all those directors!!!!! For an A-league club none the less. Looks to me like they did no research about the kind of product that they're trying to sell. How many countries in the world have second divison teams that have average attendances in of 11K per game? I suspect that for the kind of operation that the a-league represents, you need to be lean enough so that you could hold office meetings in a mini van. Save for 2 or 3 clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Upon further thought, <s>I'll <s>bet</s></s> I am sure that there are more first division clubs around the world that don't average 11K per game than there are that do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Freekick, you're absolutely right. There's only one: Division 1 (England) 15,195 Serie B and the Spanish 2nd league come close at ~9,500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Plus, some of these clubs have international talent. Look at a club like La Louviere and St Gallen. Typical crowd at La Louviere is 5-7K ( I've even read of crowds in the 4K Range)yet there are players on those squads who who play internationally. You won't see a Director of Business Operations and a Director of Soccer Operations !!!! LOL. Did they think they were going to be AC Milan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Very well put...the information regarding attendance worldwide for product superior to the A-League might help to bring some focus to the banter. So much of the discussion surrounding the Aviators relates to the administration. Yes, there is chatter about player personnel, tactics employed, locker room infighting, but at the end of the day, most critical conversation goes back to the front office. Everyone wants to see professional soccer succeed in Edmonton, and of course in Canada. But if it is to flourish, investors and directors and administrators need to consult the soccer community. The need to get a finger on the pulse, and create a business plan that is viable, sensible and sustainable. Unfortunately, in Edmonton, people became intoxicated by the prospect of soccer moms, dads, and grandparents coming to the park with kids in tow as they did for the U19 Women's Championship. Ummm...that should not have factored in to their planning as much as it obviously did. With the resignation / removal of their part-time president Wylie Stafford, perhaps a new direction is in the cards. Who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Funny bit of trivia for everyone... During the days of the NASL, the Edmonton Drillers averaged 9,924 (1979), 10,920 (1980), 10,632 (1981) and 4,922 (1982). So yeah, I think it was realistic to project that the Aviators would outdraw the NASL Drillers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Just want to point out that the A-League is our first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 quote:Originally posted by fishman Funny bit of trivia for everyone... During the days of the NASL, the Edmonton Drillers averaged 9,924 (1979), 10,920 (1980), 10,632 (1981) and 4,922 (1982). So yeah, I think it was realistic to project that the Aviators would outdraw the NASL Drillers. I was actually aware of those attendance stats for the NASL while they were in Edmonton and even had that in mind when I first heard of the 11K target that the Aviators had set. Thats what made it all the more puzzling. Sometimes you hate to burst people bubbles or get into petty regional squabbles, but I am surprised that no one here on this board ever raised an eye brow when that was first announced. 11K is just not realistic considering a sports/soccer mad town like Rochester drew just over 9K for their opener when I was there this year. Yet Rochester has a larger population and also a history that dates back to the NASL with the Lancers ( I think thats what their name was). You raise a good point about mistakenly thinking that that soccer moms and youth players will come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I think people did question the attendance expectation when Edmonton announced them. Must add that I don't think that Rochester has any more history of pro-soccer than Edmonton does, the Lancers were a horrible draw in the NASL. Sure they played 11 seasons but they averaged below 6000 a game for 7 of those seasons, there best season they averaged 8680. Don't knopw where you got your population numbers. Rochesters population is around 220,000 Edmontons is around 1,000,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Jarrek Freekick, you're absolutely right. There's only one: Division 1 (England) 15,195 Serie B and the Spanish 2nd league come close at ~9,500 Don't want to spoil the points you guys are making but you are forgetting one thing. There are many, many, more professional soccer clubs for supporters in these leagues to support. That lowers the fan support for each club. It's different in Canada, if a fan wants to support professional soccer in his city he/she has only one team to support. So comparing the situation to Europe is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seether Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Don't want to spoil the points you guys are making but you are forgetting one thing. There are many, many, more professional soccer clubs for supporters in these leagues to support. That lowers the fan support for each club. It's different in Canada, if a fan wants to support professional soccer in his city he/she has only one team to support. So comparing the situation to Europe is pointless. Yes, but by the same token there are other pro sports competition for Canadian clubs that European clubs don't have to deal with. Soccers sort of the big dog over there where as all the other sport leagues make up the remainder, whereas here there are the big four (well, not so much in Canada, but I digress) then everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Thats not the point I was making. I realize that soccer isn't the top dog over here. I also know that expectations of 11,000 per game were well over the top. I'm just explaining that it's rather pointless to compare what our top teams average as opposed to division one team in Europe. There are literally hundreds of pro teams within decent distance for fans in those countries to choose from, while in Edmonton there's just one. So to expect to draw a decent number of fans to games in Edmonton was not so extreme. It's the same flawed logic that led the same people to say that the crowd in Kingston for the WCQ was good because it compares to the same crowds that countries draw for similar games overseas. Thats not a fair comparison. The fans of those national teams can watch them on a regular basis, while over here we get to see the national team at once every four yearsif they decide to play a WCQ near our cities. Not onlythat but they have plenty of top flight soccer to schoose from over there. We don't so it only fair to assume when we do get a full national team game here (regardless of opponent) that our crowds should be larger. Beggars can't be choosers. Now just what is the competition we have for pro-sports here in the summer? In Edmonton it's not the Eskimos because they never play at home on the same night. Trappers? Not exactly big competition if you ask me. What else is there competing with the Aviators? If it's sports on TV then they have the same competition in Europe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I applaud the attempts to sell the game here in North America; however, I am afraid that by dumbing down the experience to mimic that "enjoyed" by fans of other sports (i.e. Jumbotrons, odd announcers, silly halfitme shows, etc., etc., etc.) serves to alienate the dyed-in-the-wool supported. Soccer/Football is not hockey, baseball, basketball or American football; it is a different experience. And the more organizers try to create the atmosphere seen in those sports, the more it makes lovers of the game miss its true feel. Why must announcers muck up things? Rules don't need to be explained...if I were to go over and see Gaelic Hurling, I wouldn't expect to be taught the bloody game by the fella on the P.A.. I don't need to see freakin' dogs run about the pitch. I hate to see someone employed / encouraged to fly about the stadium charged with the task of getting people to cheer / clap / do the wave / whatever else. Let the game be what it is...the tendency of North Americans to sanitize or alter things to better suit their sensibilities is never going to work with soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I agree, and have in the past all of the things you mention above. Are you telling me the PA guy tells people the rules over the PA during the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin lechelt Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Right on Fishman - we need to promote soccer to soccer fans first and new fans second. On the attendance front, in my opinion there is too much glee expressed about Edmonton's "low" attendance (it is not low by A-League standards). The 11,000 number is a three year target, and I am not going to poo poo that long term estimate. Edmonton is a great sports town. Too many people are rushing to look smart and say "I told you so". Lastly, I am a bit frustrated with the support requirements for making soccer go in Edmonton. We saw it with the indoor Drillers too. All we had to do was have the HIGHEST attendance average in the league (over 8000) to survive [actual was closer to 6000]. We are seeing it again with the Aviators. It'd be nice if we could be happy with decent attendance rather than needing the best just to keep the team solvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishman Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I do hope people aren't gleeful about the lack of attendance. And I am on the same page as you, Martin - the crowds are in line with A-League standards. The problem is the business plan wasn't constructed with the current average in mind. They felt that they could triple the league's current level of support. That is the bone of my contention...how could they have crafted up a plan, and had is signed off on by all of the investors, using those numbers? By virtue of their "strategic partnership" with the Edmonton Minor Soccer Association? I do not mean to demean in any way the huge numbers of participants and volunteers that make up that organization, but by and large those are the recreational players in the city. By virtue of their "exclusive" arrangement with EMSA, they alienated almost all of the high-performance / elite players in the city (who play under the umbrella of E.I.Y.S.A.). That to me is just downright daft...ask the local players currently on the A- or W-League teams in which league they played after the age of 11...and yet they turned their back on the very group that produces those players. Mr. Ongaro was very much a part of the E.I.Y.S.A. group, so I am very disappointed in his inability to help foster a different arrangement. My point is this...and again, I don't wish to degrade the level of enthusiasm inherent to those families that comprise the younger or recreational players...but the families supporting their sons and daughters in chasing their dreams of being a professional player ALMOST ALL RESIDE IN THE EIYSA PROGRAM. Further, many of those same families have cultural ties to the game, and would be more apt to form a good fan base. That might only number 750 - 1000, but then add the other 2,000 that consistently attend, and pick up on the curious and / or occassional viewer, and you have a workable number of 3,500 - 4,000. Build on that...don't hope against hope that Mr. and Mrs. Jones that have young Jane playing at Under-6 are going to come out and support the Aviators on an ongoing basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead Rochesters population is around 220,000 Edmontons is around 1,000,000. Roc. area pop is 1,086,082. see link below for 1997 population stats for major metropolitain areas in the US http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/metro01.prn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Just one thing. The NASL was the top league at the time. The A-league is a second division North American league right now. So thinking an A-league team would do as well as an NASL team did is unrealistic. Let's not forget the MLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 quote:Originally posted by G-Man Just one thing. The NASL was the top league at the time. The A-league is a second division North American league right now. So thinking an A-league team would do as well as an NASL team did is unrealistic. Let's not forget the MLS Not arguing the fact behind your point but the A-League is officially the first division for the Canadian teams. MLS has nothing to do with anything, thats the USA's first division, not ours. Perhaps the people behind the Edmonton team were factoring in other things such as population increase in Edmonton since the NASL days, increased coverage of soccer in Canada (there was no digital cable, internet, etc, etc, that gave the local game exposure back in those days). Still the crowd expectations were unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I agree with that. 10 thousand right out of the gate is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 quote:Originally posted by G-Man I agree with that. 10 thousand right out of the gate is insane. You aren't reading the media correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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