Domestic league

[fan]

It is true that it is very difficult to acquire any funding for anything regarding Canadian soccer given the current dismal reputation the business world recognizes

Most of these lame duck excuses have been used incessantly by the CSA and they proved their incompetent business and marketing acumen with numerous real life examples to pick from to this point.This is also true of most of the Canadian player talent pool who avoids the CSA understandably at any cost now.The only trust or confidence we will gain from the Canadian player talent pool will occur if we completely remove the actual people from the CSA and rewrite the words to demonstrate a democratic and competent union exists.

The only trust or confidence we will gain from the business or corporate community in funding of any kind will occur if we completely remove the actual people from the CSA and rewrite the words to demonstrate a democratic union exists.

I think Richard summed the kind of restructuring needed best in a previous post.

I think everyone here has demonstrated a considerable and viable amount of soccer knowledge and business and marketing acumen at one point or another that proves we do

have the people.TFC and MLSE have demonstrated how to do it locally and that it can be done it at the very least locally and a lot of what they have done can be extrapolated to a national organization.

I can see it happening but we must face the facts and start completely and entirely anew or we are going to sustain and continue a long road of woe.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

Trillium,

I am not aware of any CSA or provincial rules that limit the selling of players. Players have been sold in Canada both domestically and to European teams. It just doesn't happen often because there is no clamouring market for Canadian players. Clubs in Europe and South America are able to make a business model of selling players, but nobody in Canada has been able to do it reliably. The Toronto Lynx came closest.

Allan... In Ontario amateur players are automatically released from a club at the end of the playing season for the team they are registered too. In effect if you develop a player from u10 to U15 and the player then goes to Europe there is no fee tranfer to the club who developled the player.

The international transfer is granted by the CSA with no fee to the Canadian non-profit club.

I am not aware if the OSA or other provincial associations intend to change this to allow TFC to make sell on money from academy teams in professional clubs, at this point I suspect no one in the associations has thought about it.

If a player under 18 is signed to TFC, they currently must be signed in the same manner as all other clubs in operation in Ontario. If its different then the OSA and CSA better tell everyone the deal they have struck.

As most players make the international jumb prior to age 18 to play on school boy contracts then to sign with the foriegn club the Canadian development system gets nothing in terms of repayment. Its a fundamental flaw in our system in my opinion.

Allan not limiting ..does not mean enabling. The Associations need to introduce a method to allow clubs to get a return on those players who get sold on.

[vpsoccer]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

You are probably right VP but the market you mention is not where the development of superior players is going to come from. (please forgive ending with a preposition)

That is for sure--but the possibility of tapping that market might attract sponsors to the women's game. [^]

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Trillium

Allan... In Ontario amateur players are automatically released from a club at the end of the playing season for the team they are registered too. In effect if you develop a player from u10 to U15 and the player then goes to Europe there is no fee tranfer to the club who developled the player.

The international transfer is granted by the CSA with no fee to the Canadian non-profit club.

I am not aware if the OSA or other provincial associations intend to change this to allow TFC to make sell on money from academy teams in professional clubs, at this point I suspect no one in the associations has thought about it.

If a player under 18 is signed to TFC, they currently must be signed in the same manner as all other clubs in operation in Ontario. If its different then the OSA and CSA better tell everyone the deal they have struck.

As most players make the international jumb prior to age 18 to play on school boy contracts then to sign with the foriegn club the Canadian development system gets nothing in terms of repayment. Its a fundamental flaw in our system in my opinion.

Allan not limiting ..does not mean enabling. The Associations need to introduce a method to allow clubs to get a return on those players who get sold on.

I doubt very much that Allan was referring to youth players with amateur status. The 16-17-18 year old players in the Whitecaps residency program for example are signed to Whitecaps professional contracts and I would fully expect that TFC will do the same with its top academy prospects. Why would they not take advantage of potential transfer fees if they can get them?

[AlanDouglas]

Richard is right, that is not what I was talking about.

I've heard this song before from Canadian youth clubs who think they can get a piece of the overseas transfer market. I don't think it's realistic. To the best of my knowledge it is extremely rare for youth clubs anywhere in the world to receive transfer fees. There are independent professional academies, particularly in South America, whose business is producing young players for the local pro clubs, but that's intensive full-time professional coaching.

Clubs are welcome to try, get the rules changed and give it a whirl. But I think if you ever stuck a price tag on a Canadian kid, that few European clubs would give him the time of day. There are hundreds of thousand of youth players around the world all clamouring to get into Europe, and they're all on a free transfer. It's a buyer's market and the going rate is zero.

[Vic]

Throw out the money for a moment. Are we better off having:

a) 150-200 players playing in an 8-12 team national domestic league

5-6 playing the WSII, another 10-12 scattered around the globe, and another 50-75 playing in a heavily downgraded W

c) 22 players in residency 6 months per year?

[L.T.]

According to FIFA, youth clubs are entitled to 'Training Compensation', which is a percentage of every transfer fee paid for the player up to age 23... Any club that trained the player from the age of 12 (0.25% of transfer fee) to 23 (0.5% of transfer fee) is eligible...

I wonder if any Canadian club has ever tried to pursue this...

edit: add link - http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/status_transfer_en_25.pdf

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by L.T.

According to FIFA, youth clubs are entitled to 'Training Compensation', which is a percentage of every transfer fee paid for the player up to age 23... Any club that trained the player from the age of 12 (0.25% of transfer fee) to 23 (0.5% of transfer fee) is eligible...

I wonder if any Canadian club has ever tried to pursue this...

edit: add link - http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/status_transfer_en_25.pdf

Your right LT but I suspect its the job of the CSA to ensure the payment is made and forwared to the club involved.

I suspect its huge hole in the business of soccer in the Country.

As to the supposed professional contracts of TFC etc... I would love to see the template that is approved by the CSA for such contracts and the enabling regulations for them.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by L.T.

According to FIFA, youth clubs are entitled to 'Training Compensation', which is a percentage of every transfer fee paid for the player up to age 23... Any club that trained the player from the age of 12 (0.25% of transfer fee) to 23 (0.5% of transfer fee) is eligible...

I wonder if any Canadian club has ever tried to pursue this...

edit: add link - http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/status_transfer_en_25.pdf

Your right LT but I suspect its the job of the CSA to ensure the payment is made and forwared to the club involved.

I suspect its huge hole in the business of soccer in the Country.

As to the supposed professional contracts of TFC etc... I would love to see the template that is approved by the CSA for such contracts and the enabling regulations for them.

[Richard]

I suspect the MLS youth contract templates are provided by MLS and rubber stamped by US Soccer and the CSA. It's not as if this is groundbreaking contract law and MLS has been doing this for a while.

[Trillium]

From Real Salt Lake...

http://web.mlsnet.com/pdf/slr/2007/player_development/rsl_az_faq.pdf

FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

Updated: 5/15/07

1. What age teams do we have?

U-16 & U-17 Boys teams; for this summer’s league play any players good enough in the

USYA ’92 & ’91 age groups qualify for the U-16 team and ’90 age players qualify for

the U-17 team. U-16 team players may also be asked to “play-up” with the U-17 team if

good enough.

2. Do the players get paid?

NO, the players are still amateurs.

3. What league will they play in?

United Soccer League (USL) Super Y-League – newly formed Rocky Mountain Division

(more information on the USL at www.USLsoccer.com)

4. What other teams will play in the league this summer?

Real Salt Lake (MLS) Utah

Real Salt Lake (MLS) Arizona

Colorado Rapids (MLS)

Kansas City Wizards (MLS)

Colorado RUSH Soccer Club

Boulder County Force (Colorado PDL based Club).

5. How many games will we play?

8-10 games over 3-4 weekends

6. Where will we play?

RSL Arizona’s host field is Grand Canyon University

2

7. How does a player get selected for one of these teams?

RSL Arizona will hold OPEN Tryouts on Tuesday May 15th at 7 pm and Saturday May

19th at 3 pm; both held at Grand Canyon University in Phoenix

After the OPEN Tryouts, the teams will be formed by invitation and coach

recommendation only.

8. How many players will be selected for each team?

22-25 players per team

9. How many players will travel to away games?

18-22 depending on the number of games played on the trip

10. Will there be other activities during the year?

The winner of the league will compete in the National Super Y League Championships

November 16-21 in Tampa FL. There are no other formal events planned at this time.

There is some serious discussion that all the MLS youth teams of these ages will meet

over a long weekend in the winter to play an MLS Youth Tournament in front of all the

MLS senior team coaches and other college or professional coaches.

11. Will these teams practice during the year or have other activities?

These teams will have some practices in order to prepare for league play. All summer

league and practice activities are planned to avoid most of the Club and ODP

commitments. During the year they may be occasional practices, games or tournaments

which will be completely optional for the players.

12. How much does it cost to be a part of the team?

Costs will be at a minimum. RSL (MLS) will be sponsoring most of the fees. They will

play for all league fees, uniforms and transportation to away games. Hotel expenses and

food may be the responsibility of the player. Total expenses incurred by the players

should be less than $100. Additional trips and tournament expenses would be split

between the RSL Club and the player if sponsors are not found.

13. What is the benefit for Real Salt Lake (MLS) senior team?

To identify players from their MLS assigned geographic territory who might be good

enough and interested enough to play professional soccer. In addition, the Club would

like to develop long term relationships with players so that they get to know the quality

and character of the players. RSL hopes that by creating relationships with players over

time that more players will be interested in joining the senior club as the time is right.

3

14. When is a player eligible to sign a contract with the senior RSL team?

There is no real practical limit. However, it is the expectation that most players will first

attend college and then look to become a professional player. RSL and Major League

Soccer attain most of their US born players from the super-draft comprised of primarily

US College players that have graduated or that intend to graduate soon.

15. What does it mean to be “tagged” by an MLS Club?

Tagging is a new method in the MLS where “if” a player plays 100 hours or more per

year with an MLS youth team and then goes off to college, he can be earmarked by the

league for that team. RSL AZ has no expectation that a player will be formally tagged.

Since RSL does not intend to have its own youth club organization in Arizona, it would

not be practical to have players play that many hours in a year. RSL AZ realizes that

95% of the player’s activities throughout the year will belong to his youth “Club” team

and or ODP teams.

In other MLS territories throughout the US, a tagged player is a player that for one or

more years has been invested in by the MLS club and for that the MLS team has the right

of first refusal for that player if that player wants to enter MLS. MLS has no jurisdiction

for other leagues. If a player did not want to sign with his MLS team after coming out of

college, he would negotiate his rights with the club for another team. This is very

standard practice in most soccer countries.

16. What is the benefit for the MLS team to tag a player?

The MLS team could sign the player directly without having to select him through the

“super-draft”.

17. Can a player at any time decide he wants to play for a specific MLS

team and sign a contract?

NO. The MLS owns the right to player contracts and allocates players through drafts and

other means for player to team allocation. Thus, building a relationship with an MLS

club can be a solid advantage for players.

18. What player pass does a player use?

Each RSL AZ player will hold both a USYS (AYSA) and US Club pass.

19. Is there any conflict with AYSA, US Soccer or ODP?

NO. RSL AZ and RSL Utah work closely with the AYSA and USYS ODP. In addition,

RSL AZ and RSL UTAH both utilize AZ ODP coaches, staff and some players.

4

20. Are there any other benefits for being on this team?

YES. Players start to associate and learn what it means to be a part of a professional

soccer club. They wear actual club uniforms from the senior team; they have direct

access to additional contacts who can help them with college and the professional game

in the US and abroad; they play against other MLS and top quality youth teams in a

professional environment and in front of additional coaches and staff; They can also be

selected for the USL ODP National Camp held in conjunction with the USL Professional

Combine typically held in December/January in FL. Approx. 8-12 players will be

selected from each league for this opportunity.

21. Who will be the coaches for the RSL AZ teams?

Robin Fraser, robash114@yahoo.com (U-17 Team)

Harry Demos, harrydemos@ccvstars.com (U-16 Team)

22. Who selected these head coaches?

John Ellinger, Real Salt Lake MLS Technical Director/Director of Soccer Operations

23. Who are the assistant RSL AZ coaches?

Tim Barmettler, U-17

Roberto Beall, U-17

Mike Rabasca (goalkeeper coach), U-17

Jon Pearlman, U-16

Keir Cochran, U-16

Petar Draksin (goalkeeper coach), U-16

24. Who selected these coaches and why?

Robin and Harry selected their own coaches. They wanted to first select quality

individuals who had been successful coaching youth players in these age groups. They

also wanted to add coaches who represented many different clubs and who had been

supportive and or worked in the AZ AYSA ODP organization. Lastly, they wanted

individuals who understood the limited but very important role that RSL AZ will have in

the AZ soccer community. These coaches are very interested in working with club

coaches to coordinate activities, take input and work together for the betterment of the

young aspiring Arizona players

25. Has RSL AZ done anything to encourage a partnership with local

youth clubs and organizations?

YES. On March 19th, RSL AZ invited all Arizona based soccer clubs to have their

Director of Coaching attend a luncheon. At this luncheon, RSL AZ introduced the entire

coaching staff including the general manager from RSL MLS. RSL AZ expressed a

sincere interest to partner with all clubs and any coach who wants to participate. No one

has been excluded.

5

26. Can a Player Play ODP, Club, RSL, and High School soccer?

YES, playing on a very part time basis for RSL AZ does not affect any participation with

these very important teams such as club, ODP and high school. RSL AZ is simply an

opportunity to begin to be identified and become a part of a professional organization.

27. Will the players have access to RSL coaches at any time?

RSL AZ head coaches are on the technical coaching staff for the RSL senior team. We

have access to RSL senior coaches and are invited on a regular basis to attend coaching

sessions, games and other events for the senior team. RSL AZ players through their RSL

AZ coaches have access as appropriate to the senior team.

[Trillium]

From the above it seems the MLS contract is not more then in the case of Real Salt Lake.. a linkage to amateur club structure.

Its certainly not from my background reading a pro set up as you find elsewhere with players on youth trails etc.

I am not sure what the final real form will be for TFC in Ontario...or for the Whitecaps. One hope the CSA who is responsible for the Pre teams registrations will come out with clear guidelines and manage the process for the benefit of the atheletes.

They need to sit down and figure out where they are going on this and not let it evolve in some haphazard manner.

[Richard]

^ How do you get contract terms out of anything that is posted here?

I don't see anywhere in what TFC has said publicly that they are expecting the youngsters who are accepted into the TFC academy to sign a professional player contract, unlike the Whitecaps residency players.

[Bill Ault]

I would guess, as in the past with the NASL, NSL, CSL1, PDL and CPSL etc., these youth players would be signed to amateur contracts so as not to jeopardize their amateur standing. Somewhere in the boxes in my office I have a copy of a NSL (ancient history) one and a PDL (recent history) but I don't think they are worth digging up for this side debate....

TFC Academy sides I suspect will not play in a league but use a combination of exhibition matches and quality tournaments for their competitive outlet. This allows much more control of the competitive element of things which I'm sure the staff at TFC will be striving for.

[Richard]

How did this thread move so far away from Women's National Teams, Players, Leagues & Clubs ? :-)

[Bill Ault]

^ I blame the amount of free time Trillium seems to have had lately [)] we must be overdue for a breakfast meeting.