Gilles Duceppe wants Quebec to have its own team

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Derosario23

For real I have to work with them every day they don't even know why they wanna separate. I mean Canada is one of the best countries to live in the world theres no war etc but every country has its own political issues and these ppl are taking it for granted.

Makes me sick one thing is for sure if quebec does separate half the population will move there will be notjing left in quebec except for some haitians and quebecors. All the businesses will leave as well so it's no surprise to me they will ask for their own team since they think now they have better chances of separating idiots!

The rumours were that Bombardier was all set to move to St. Catharines if the 1995 referendum had gone the other way. I heard that real estate deals were already in place with the trigger being the final result being Oui!

Of course, we all know how our emotion and heart often trumps our head when it comes to our love for soccer.

It is exactly the same thing for the ardent separatists. Those that want out so badly they can taste it aren`t doing it for economics or quality of life, they are doing it for their love of Quebec, no matter how misguided we think it might be.

For us, we`re Canadians before we`re Ontarians or Albertans. The separatists don`t consider themselves Canadian at all. They are Quebecois.

I hate what they`re doing but I think I understand their thinking (just a little bit) even if I do think it is wrong.

db

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

Yes, essentially you have gone to very heart of the issue. Forget about economics etc, it has nothing to do with it. And thats the bad news for Canada. Those francophones who support the sovereignty movement do it with their heart while those francophones who don't, do so for economic reasons. While the remaining 20%-30% ( ie.: the allophone and anglophone vote) is staunchly against sovereignty. The actual number of francophone who think of themselves as "canadian first" might be something like one in ten. These are usually those types like the athletes. Specifically, those who have gained alot exposure to Canada through travel outside, participation in Canadian wide institution, bloodlines & friendships etc etc.

Getting back to that small group ( 10-20%) who vote with their head or specifically economic reasons, they are the ones who decide the outcome and that is who the sovereinty forces and federalist forces battle for. Why is it bad news for canada? because if that small group sees the economic advantage dwindle, how are they going to vote. And we know how cyclical and unpredictable business and economics are.

IMO To avoid the eventual breakup of the country, you need more francophone Quebecers to become emotionally attached to Canada and right now I don't know how you do that. Yu certainly cannot achieve in the short term. I have taken a little flack for this, but I truly believed in the basic aims of what the feds were trying to do in what led to the sponsorship scandal. They were trying re-estabish the brand name of Canada in Quebec and the flag is big part of that. Governments, its institutions, and opinion leaders in Quebec have have gradually over thirty years chipped away at removing the "Brand name of Canada" from the lanscape in Quebec and that is one small reason why many have lost their emotional attachment. It is a psychologic thing, but over the long term it means alot in terms of swaying peoples views. For those who have never been to Quebec, you would be amazed at how little visibility there is for Canada, the flag and it symbols. For example, if you arrive from abroad into Dorval airport, you won't could easily think that you haven't arrived in Canada. There are no Cnd flags, you are welcomed to quebec, are shown direction to "Immigration Quebec" offices etc etc. There are many many more examples of this in Quebec society especially outside the island of Montreal. The commercial symbols are the the only thing that remind you that you are in Canada.

Stupid things like Meech lake and Charlottetown accords will do nothing to turn the tide. People don't gain and emotional attachment over a legal document. In fact, I have belived that Meech etc would have acellerated sovereighty. I say that even though, I agree that from a symbolic standpoint, that the rejection of those deals gave a short term boost to sovereignist. And NO, you don't gains the hearts of Francophone quebec by selling English Canadian cultural icons. I get annoyed when I hear that. But one thing that can help is is a greater acceptance of Francophone cultural icons within English Canada.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

IMO To avoid the eventual breakup of the country, you need more francophone Quebecers to become emotionally attached to Canada and right now I don't know how you do that. Yu certainly cannot achieve in the short term. I have taken a little flack for this, but I truly believed in the basic aims of what the feds were trying to do in what led to the sponsorship scandal. They were trying re-estabish the brand name of Canada in Quebec and the flag is big part of that. Governments, its institutions, and opinion leaders in Quebec have have gradually over thirty years chipped away at removing the "Brand name of Canada" from the lanscape in Quebec and that is one small reason why many have lost their emotional attachment. It is a psychologic thing, but over the long term it means alot in terms of swaying peoples views. For those who have never been to Quebec, you would be amazed at how little visibility there is for Canada, the flag and it symbols. For example, if you arrive from abroad into Dorval airport, you won't could easily think that you haven't arrived in Canada. There are no Cnd flags, you are welcomed to quebec, are shown direction to "Immigration Quebec" offices etc etc. There are many many more examples of this in Quebec society especially outside the island of Montreal. The commercial symbols are the the only thing that remind you that you are in Canada.

Stupid things like Meech lake and Charlottetown accords will do nothing to turn the tide. People don't gain and emotional attachment over a legal document. In fact, I have belived that Meech etc would have acellerated sovereighty. I say that even though, I agree that from a symbolic standpoint, that the rejection of those deals gave a short term boost to sovereignist. And NO, you don't gains the hearts of Francophone quebec by selling English Canadian cultural icons. I get annoyed when I hear that. But one thing that can help is is a greater acceptance of Francophone cultural icons within English Canada.

Yes, true enough about the scandal. If the program had been run correctly with less skimming et al, we might now be looking at it as a brilliant government program. I don`t think anybody would currently use those adjectives now.

I agree with you. The question is how to win the hearts of the average Quebecer. Economic arguments may work with some but nothing will ever win over the dedicated separtists. One quarter to one third of the population will not rest until they have their nation.

I don`t know if you`ll ever have Quebec cultural icons gain any sort of acceptance in English Canada though. In the early 70`s we had Michel Pagliaro scoring hit national hit singles but he was singing in english. He gave up on English Canada because he wanted to concentrate on his french language work and that work was never accepted outside Quebec. Celine Dion switched to English. Rene Simard disappeared after one horrible CBC TV series.

Culturally, we are already separate nations. Perhaps a focus on sports would work. Let`s have Canada play its next big international home friendly in the Big O on natural grass. Let`s play some World Cup hockey games in Le Colisee. Let`s have more Olympic team camps in Quebec.

Others would say we are pandering. Others say `screw it`, let them go.

Not only do we have to battle to win the hearts of Quebecers, we have to battle those Canadians that couldn`t care less.